neal Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 It looks to me as if the existing Neanderthal method of tender to loco coupling has been retained. Your opinons,gentlemen ? If that IS the case,I,m out. It is not rocket science to cut the post off the tender drawbar and drill a hole to re-fit a new one as close or far from the loco as your layout necessitates. On the basis that the Bachmann and Hornby 4mt were 'due' about the same time, I look forward to seeing the Hornby model on the shelves at Easter. It is woeful that petty manufacturer rivalries have bumped the already long overdue (and very worthy) B17 further down the production list! In the meantime, my split chassis B1, with TCS M1 runs fine, looks fine, and in my opinion doesn't warrant replacement! The many discounted 4mt's (Bachmann and Hornby) from the box-shifters are testament that duplication doesn't work! N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 2, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2011 It is not rocket science to cut the post off the tender drawbar and drill a hole to re-fit a new one as close or far from the loco as your layout necessitates. On the basis that the Bachmann and Hornby 4mt were 'due' about the same time, I look forward to seeing the Hornby model on the shelves at Easter. It is woeful that petty manufacturer rivalries have bumped the already long overdue (and very worthy) B17 further down the production list! In the meantime, my split chassis B1, with TCS M1 runs fine, looks fine, and in my opinion doesn't warrant replacement! The many discounted 4mt's (Bachmann and Hornby) from the box-shifters are testament that duplication doesn't work! N Really? Is this an empirically and statistically based conclusion on your part? Why,then,have both Dapol and Bachmann decided to produce models of pioneer diesels 10000 & 100001 and both Dapol and Heljan have soon to be released models of class 52 ? Or do you know something that they don't? If I am to spend £80 on an r-t-r model that owes its origins to the last century---and it seems this latest offering does----then I am emphatically NOT going to ruin an already fading eyesight and arthritically benumbed fingers to keep an outdated model on the road. Leave rocket science to NASA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2011 Really? Is this an empirically and statistically based conclusion on your part? Why,then,have both Dapol and Bachmann decided to produce models of pioneer diesels 10000 & 100001 Because somebody is paying them to do the donkey work and in one case (Bachmann) they are able to take a further marketing advantage of it. But that still doesn't mean there won't necessarily be piles of them left on shelves. Yet again they are a class I knew (from the lineside and bunked sheds) in traffic so they have a bit of nostalgic appeal but like an increasingly lengthening list they don't suit my area of modelling interest and there enough things that do which are placing demands on my wallet. and both Dapol and Heljan have soon to be released models of class 52 ? Or do you know something that they don't? I think releasing a model of 'a thousand' is some sort of model railway manufacturers right of passage - the only people who won't have had a go at it (thus far) being Bachmann/the ranges they took over. It's a popular loco with a big following and examples in preservation and it must be a tremendous attraction to any decent manufacturer to have a go at getting it right insofar as mass production permits; so it is definitely one which sits in 'better mousetrap' territory in my view. And as I knew the class well and worked with them you can guess where some of my money is earmarked to go in the coming year - others might be taking a similar view but still one manufacturer might be left with surplus stock as I'm only putting my money on one horse as the other has poor form. If I am to spend £80 on an r-t-r model that owes its origins to the last century---and it seems this latest offering does----then I am emphatically NOT going to ruin an already fading eyesight and arthritically benumbed fingers to keep an outdated model on the road. Leave rocket science to NASA. It's really down to some very subjective opinion and personal feelings in the end and I think that might always be the case where competitors sit unless one is head & shoulders above the other (which might be the case here - we have still to wait and see). I've seen the B1 on Hornby's stand at shows and it looks like a B1 at a viewing distance of several feet, in fact it looked to me like quite a nice model of a B1 at that distance. But we all have our preferences and that is where the subjective comes in, as does finance for many, so I think there's room for both but sales of each will suffer as a result. Not my area of interest and as I've hinted before if I was more strongly inclined to the dry side I'd sooner have a B16 than a $/**%! Bongo any day of the week . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 All my Bachmann B1's have had to have tender pick-ups added. If the statements on this thread are correct I will still have to add tender pick-ups myself. It will be interesting to see if the Hornby has a tender pick-up. Then it will be a no-brainer. Besides I am still off Bachmann for not making the new chassis available for my current stable of detailed B!'s. As some-one said it makes me feel like nothing more than a cash cow. No offence to cows intended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 ... both Dapol and Heljan have soon to be released models of class 52 ? Or do you know something that they don't? Also a spurious comparison, as the Dapol Western has so far only been announced in 4mm* and the planned Heljan model is in 7mm (the existing HJ one in 4mm is some years old now). (* So far as I know, with all the intermixed announcements and wishlisting it's difficult to be sure). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Really? Is this an empirically and statistically based conclusion on your part? Why,then,have both Dapol and Bachmann decided to produce models of pioneer diesels 10000 & 100001 and both Dapol and Heljan have soon to be released models of class 52 ? Or do you know something that they don't? If I am to spend £80 on an r-t-r model that owes its origins to the last century---and it seems this latest offering does----then I am emphatically NOT going to ruin an already fading eyesight and arthritically benumbed fingers to keep an outdated model on the road. Leave rocket science to NASA. Well it sounds like you, me and Deborah Meaden won't be buying this one. Its our money and our choice after all. N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 When someone gets their hands on a new Bachmann B1, could they please tell me if it is an easy chassis transplant into the earlier Bachmann, and more importantly Replica B1 body please? cheers, Peter C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Well it sounds like you, me and Deborah Meaden won't be buying this one. Its our money and our choice after all. Yeah, I understand she's a staunch GW follower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 3, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2011 Also a spurious comparison, as the Dapol Western has so far only been announced in 4mm* and the planned Heljan model is in 7mm (the existing HJ one in 4mm is some years old now). (* So far as I know, with all the intermixed announcements and wishlisting it's difficult to be sure). Spurious? Would suuggest you looked on Modelfair's website,where you will see advertised Heljan catalogue numbers 5217 to 5221--soon to be released--and yes,the Dapol OO 52--also in preparation, is widely heralded in the modelling press. You also mentioned 'box-shifters' in aprevious posting .Their initiatives are giving us a richness and diversity of choice undreamed of a short while ago---witness the 'Rails' commissions and Hattons Co-Bo, Beyer-Garrett and LMS diesel twins. Spurious Rivetcountorious? An ancient Roman anorak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Spurious? Would suuggest you looked on Modelfair's website,where you will see advertised Heljan catalogue numbers 5217 to 5221--soon to be released--and yes,the Dapol OO 52--also in preparation, is widely heralded in the modelling press. Um, thanks but I'm well aware that Heljan are running a further batch of their existing model in 4mm - which will be a pretty minimal cost exercise for them as the tooling will be paid for by now. It's not at all the same thing as going head to head on something entirely new, or significantly improved. You also mentioned 'box-shifters' in aprevious posting .Their initiatives are giving us a richness and diversity of choice undreamed of a short while ago---witness the 'Rails' commissions and Hattons Co-Bo, Beyer-Garrett and LMS diesel twins. I cant really remember whether I did or not - but if I did, please indicate why it is relevant here? It seems very strange that someone is arguing with me on the basis of a point I wouldnt actually disagree with. Spurious Rivetcountorious? An ancient Roman anorak. I'm even less sure of the relevance of that, are we having another 'let's knock rivet counters' discussion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 All my Bachmann B1's have had to have tender pick-ups added. If the statements on this thread are correct I will still have to add tender pick-ups myself. It will be interesting to see if the Hornby has a tender pick-up. Then it will be a no-brainer. Besides I am still off Bachmann for not making the new chassis available for my current stable of detailed B!'s. It might be easier to clean your track. Dapol have recently produced two locos with fewer wheels than pretty well all of Bachmann's offerings and they run superbly. Hornby locos usually have tender pick ups but I find that they run just as well with them removed. The production system in China does not adapt itself too well to the supply of spares. Look at the delays in getting complete locos to market and imagine the problem. By the time that all the systems had been set up it would cost almost as much to produce and market a chassis as it would to introduce a complete loco. You probably need to direct your offness at dealers rather than Bachmann. I am sure that they would much prefer to sell finished locos rather than spare bits. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted December 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2011 Until we see the models in the flesh then I'll make a judgment on getting the Bachy or Hornby B1, but get one I will, they fit with my North Bristol Midland line theme. But to compare the situation to the Heljan/Dapol "duplication" of the Western is well off beam. I'm with my learned friend Pennine here, the Heljan Western dates from 2004 and i'll put my mortgage on the fact that the Dapol one will be better and in a different league. If the rivet counters are responsible for the massive increase in quality of our RTR, (which I think they are) then count me in. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 3, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2011 Yeah, I understand she's a staunch GW follower. :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
medion694 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Well the new Bachmann weathered version is now up and in stock at Hattons: http://www.ehattons.com/38449/Bachmann_UK_31_716_B1_61180_in_BR_lined_black_with_late_crest_weathered_/StockDetail.aspx I'm not gonna lie, I like it alot!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Really? Is this an empirically and statistically based conclusion on your part? Why,then,have both Dapol and Bachmann decided to produce models of pioneer diesels 10000 & 100001... Dapol and Bachmann weren't the parties making the decision there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I have to say, I like that too. Just to put a slightly different slant on it, I like the idea of spending £30 less on the Bachmann one as I can spend this on detailling bits to individualise my models. I know this won't be everyones ideal, but thats my preferred option. Cheers. Sean. I have to say, I like that too. Just to put a slightly different slant on it, I like the idea of spending £30 less on the Bachmann one as I can spend this on detailling bits to individualise my models. I know this won't be everyones ideal, but thats my preferred option. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Or buy Bachmann and use the £30 difference to buy a Hornby Suburban. Either way the Bachmann B1 can look decent enough and probably run well enough for my needs. Horses for courses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Or buy Bachmann and use the £30 difference to buy a Hornby Suburban. Either way the Bachmann B1 can look decent enough and probably run well enough for my needs. Horses for courses. It really is that simple for me Simon. You pays your money you takes your choice so to speak. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian D Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I have inspected the new weathered late crest version today in Modelzone - full price, not far short of the ton (ouch!). To my mind the valve gear looks "finer" but that might be the weathering. In all other respects I'm still quite happy with my 5 or 6 year old "Gazelle" bought from John Dutfield for £54.95. Unlike one of the posts above, I've found no need to fit tender pickups - the loco runs unfailingly through my 36 inch radius dead frog pointwork. Close coupling the tender to the loco was dead easy - just trim a few mm off the upward pointing pin on the "Neanderthal" tender coupling and you will find it slots nicely into the rear, deep chassis screw hole. Regards to all, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Just for completeness hattons has photo's of the Bachmann on their website Very hard to tell if the tender has been modified to represent the flush-sided variant. It looks like it has, yet I'm not sure..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 If I am to spend £80 on an r-t-r model that owes its origins to the last century---and it seems this latest offering does----then I am emphatically NOT going to ruin an already fading eyesight and arthritically benumbed fingers to keep an outdated model on the road. Leave rocket science to NASA. But if the B1 body is good enough for Dave Bradwell... My view is if something is fundamentally accurate (which the Bachmann nee Replica B1 body is) then there's no problem at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 All my Bachmann B1's have had to have tender pick-ups added. If the statements on this thread are correct I will still have to add tender pick-ups myself. It will be interesting to see if the Hornby has a tender pick-up. Then it will be a no-brainer. Besides I am still off Bachmann for not making the new chassis available for my current stable of detailed B!'s. As some-one said it makes me feel like nothing more than a cash cow. No offence to cows intended. As I have previosuly stated on several occasions....Bachmann replacment chassis were not cheap in anybodies books, and if you buy a complete new B1 discounted from Hattons, remove its chassis, then fit the chassis from your old B1 to the new body, and then sell it on ebay starting at 99p as a non runner (because thats guarenteed to get a bidding frenzy), you'll end up better in pocket than if Bachmann did offer a chassis at probably 50 odd quid. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted December 4, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2011 With regard to the excellent overall shape of the old Bachmann B1 tooling, there is a lesson in here for head to head competitive model releases. If the initial graft is put in to get the overall shape right then there will be little opportunity for competition. Some examples (there are more but these are off the top of my head) Take the Bachy Warship- ex mainline tooling dating from the 1980s, sure showing its age but with chassis upgrade recent releases have shifted well. No competition anywhere in sight. Heljan Hymek- excellent model save the scavenger fan, little point anyone competing ( OK there's Hornby but this is not for the discerning modeller) Heljan western, clear body shape faults that could have been rectified prior to release - an open door for competition. Dapol rides to the rescue. Most recent steam releases Bachmann ROD, 7F, 3F, Hornby Castle, 28XX no major faults no point competing here. I'm sure Hornby will get their B1 spot on, and for me it will be the thorough analysis of both Bachy and Hornby models in this thread that will decide my purchase. This is probably the most interesting head to head there's been recently from a commercial perspective, Neil Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The dome on the Hornby model is superb. The chimney looks suspect. Other way round for Bachmann! Dispelling an earlier (now deleted I suspect) post. The Bachmann wheel sets look fine. I can't see this "curvature" in the profile at all. The weathered example on Hattons looks very good. I am waiting for the LNER version for rebranding so will report back when I get mine. I fear a storm is brewing in the Martin household - Daddy Martin declared his intention to get a Hornby one this morning. Cue a repeat of last years family "debate" over whose 4MT was better...!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Dispelling an earlier (now deleted I suspect) post. The Bachmann wheel sets look fine. I can't see this "curvature" in the profile at all. The weathered example on Hattons looks very good. I am waiting for the LNER version for rebranding so will report back when I get mine. The post in question Simon is in the Hornby B1 thread....I too get confused where I have read posts...then realise it is in the other thread Regarding the B1s, I know which one I'll be getting.....Hornby's offering. But all this pro Bachmann B1 comments are quite fine by me gents!....... it means more Hornby ones for me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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