Midland Main Line Electrification

[pete_mcfarlane]

33 x 5 car sets doesn't seem like enough to replace the current fleet (even allowing for the Corby services switching to EMUs). Are most/all of the Meridians being retained, and these are to replace the HSTs?

 

 

[eastwestdivide]

21 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

33 x 5 car sets doesn't seem like enough to replace the current fleet (even allowing for the Corby services switching to EMUs). Are most/all of the Meridians being retained, and these are to replace the HSTs?

 

 

There's a lot of back of the envelope calculations on other forums to that effect, but the new order is to replace both the HSTs and the Meridians.

The fleet has a lot of slack in it at the moment, standardisation of stock can mean quicker turnrounds at St Pancras particularly, the Meridians may be over-supplied with 1st class, the Corby services go over to EMU as you say, and I think the Leeds extensions are to be no more.

[Zomboid]

They've only got 27 222 sets of various length, so with the Corby trains going to EMUs, 33 x 5 car 80x should be enough to replace the 222s and HSTs.

[jamie92208]

28 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

There's a lot of back of the envelope calculations on other forums to that effect, but the new order is to replace both the HSTs and the Meridians.

The fleet has a lot of slack in it at the moment, standardisation of stock can mean quicker turnrounds at St Pancras particularly, the Meridians may be over-supplied with 1st class, the Corby services go over to EMU as you say, and I think the Leeds extensions are to be no more.

IIRC the Leeds extensions were to get the HST's to Neville Hill for maintenance.  However they also provide a good revenue stream for EMT under ORCATS.  I would think that the new franchise would be unhappy to let them go.  I used to find them useful to get to Luton airport from Wakefield.

 

Jamie

[Edwin_m]

2 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

There's a lot of back of the envelope calculations on other forums to that effect, but the new order is to replace both the HSTs and the Meridians.

The fleet has a lot of slack in it at the moment, standardisation of stock can mean quicker turnrounds at St Pancras particularly, the Meridians may be over-supplied with 1st class, the Corby services go over to EMU as you say, and I think the Leeds extensions are to be no more.

Looks like few or no bi-modes will stop south of Kettering.  In my experience the ones that do so now are fullest between Bedford and Luton Airport Parkway, so while it means some people have extra changes of train it does even out the loadings for these services.  Along with the other issues, a 5-car IET-based unit should have a lot more passenger space than a 5-car 222. 

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

IIRC the Leeds extensions were to get the HST's to Neville Hill for maintenance.  However they also provide a good revenue stream for EMT under ORCATS.  I would think that the new franchise would be unhappy to let them go.  I used to find them useful to get to Luton airport from Wakefield.

I think I read somewhere that these will continue, but I can't imagine them being anything more than units in marginal time that would otherwise be doing nothing.  But it seems the longer-distance trains aren't stopping at Luton Airport Parkway. 

[RANGERS]

On 30/07/2019 at 22:59, Dava said:

East Midlands under Abellio will presumably struggle on with filthy Meridians desperately in need of midlife overhauls and HSTs showing their age. At best. Then we get bimodes we don't need instead of proper electrification, no doubt with ironing board seats and austerity cost-engineering.

 

Thanks Grayling [you f*t b*****d].

Rather sad that the trains won’t be built at Derby but at least with Bi-modes the whole route structure for the MML is retained and there’s still scope for the slightly left of field services from London to places such as York, Scarborough, Lincoln, Melton Mowbray and the Saturday extras from Nottingham to Skegness.

 

The faint hope of increased services north from Corby lingers but the Leeds services look likely to go in 2023, if indeed they last beyond Dec this year.

[RANGERS]

On 31/07/2019 at 00:30, phil-b259 said:

 

The new bit north of Bedford will be fine.

 

Its the British rail installed stuff further south which you have to worry about - as with most things BR did, that nice HM Treasury ensured it was done to the cheapest spec possible (i.e. 100mph suburban EMUs - which admittedly did run in pairs with two pantographs in use)

In fairness, the catenary has seen almost 40 years service so unless Network Rail are willing to see it degrade as far as that which has caused so much heartache elsewhere on the system, it’s time for for upgrade anyway.

[ess1uk]

My understanding is that small upgrades are being made as and when repairs are needed.

will this be enough?

what was done after the wires came down the other week?

 

[RANGERS]

The new branding has broken cover ahead of the changeover next weekend. 

 

Aside from the colours, as all EMT branding has been removed, inside and out, those of a cynical disposition might suggest its an effort to deflect some of the flack caused by the fiasco of the past two weeks towards the new operating company.

[corneliuslundie]

A nice thought but I am sure that it was months ago that a "consultancy" was paid a great deal of money to produce this rebranding.

Though it does have the feel of being the result of a presentation when the consultancy gave various options and the chairman asked which was cheapest - AKA the seats now being specified?

Jonathan

Edited August 12, 2019 by corneliuslundie
Added info

[RANGERS]

6 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

A nice thought but I am sure that it was months ago that a "consultancy" was paid a great deal of money to produce this rebranding.

Though it does have the feel of being the result of a presentation when the consultancy gave various options and the chairman asked which was cheapest - AKA the seats now being specified?

Jonathan

It was more a reference to the timing, a full week ahead of the changeover. The full plum colour livery will no doubt appear over the coming months and years as units come up for overhaul and the HSTs are withdrawn.

 

interestingly, those units that have been rebranded haven’t even been cleaned, just the patch where the old vinyls have been removed and the new applied, looks very odd. Now that really does smack of a cheap skate approach.

[jim.snowdon]

On 1 August 2019 at 20:27, RANGERS said:

In fairness, the catenary has seen almost 40 years service so unless Network Rail are willing to see it degrade as far as that which has caused so much heartache elsewhere on the system, it’s time for for upgrade anyway.

Parts of it may have 40 years wear and tear in the components, but it will still have the same basic performance characteristics as it had when it was built. Unless you want it to do more than it was designed to deliver, it shouldn't need upgrading, merely routine replacement of the wearing parts, preferably before they fail.

 

Jim

[Edwin_m]

3 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Parts of it may have 40 years wear and tear in the components, but it will still have the same basic performance characteristics as it had when it was built. Unless you want it to do more than it was designed to deliver, it shouldn't need upgrading, merely routine replacement of the wearing parts, preferably before they fail.

However if it needs replacement of certain parts then there is an opportunity to upgrade to something better at the same time, which will cost a lot less than replacing like for like then upgrading a few years later.  It was originally designed for trains of up to 8 cars at up to 100mph, but it is now expected to supply trains with two pans at 125mph, not to mention a far more intensive service in general. 

[Dava]

London-Kettering-Corby looks set to be a modern, efficient outer London suburban railway. What seems likely to become the country branch to Leicester, Derby, Nottingham & Sheffield, with old signalling often failing & no eletrification, is much more of a concern. A cut-price, overcrowded & unreliable railway, certainly in recent weeks.

[phil-b259]

21 hours ago, Dava said:

London-Kettering-Corby looks set to be a modern, efficient outer London suburban railway. What seems likely to become the country branch to Leicester, Derby, Nottingham & Sheffield, with old signalling often failing & no eletrification, is much more of a concern. A cut-price, overcrowded & unreliable railway, certainly in recent weeks.

 

 

You are wrong when it comes to signalling - Derby and it’s approaches have just been given a major overhaul with control migrating to a new ROC. Meanwhile the condition of the wiring on the rest of the 1980s Leicester scheme is also of a concern and renewal of other bits not affected by widening / remodelling works is high on the agenda. Nottingham saw some extensive remodelling / resignalling within the last decade and I also believe Sheffield has gone over to York ROC.

Edited August 13, 2019 by phil-b259

[great central]

21 hours ago, Dava said:

. A cut-price, overcrowded & unreliable railway, certainly in recent weeks.

 

Hasn't the MML always been that?

[Dava]

42 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

You are wrong when it comes to signalling - Derby and it’s approaches have just been given a major overhaul with control migrating to a new ROC. Meanwhile the condition of the wiring on the rest of the 1980s Leicester scheme is also of a concern and renewal of other bits not affected by widening / remodelling works is high on the agenda. Nottingham saw some extensive remodelling / resignalling within the last decade and I also believe Sheffield has gone over to York ROC.

 

When signalling fails in the Leicester area, such as on rainy days, it inevitably and too frequently disrupts trains to/from Derby, Sheffield, Nottingham.

[phil-b259]

10 minutes ago, Dava said:

 

When signalling fails in the Leicester area, such as on rainy days, it inevitably and too frequently disrupts trains to/from Derby, Sheffield, Nottingham.

 

The point is Network Rail are investing heavily in resignalling the MML (including Leicester) over previous and current control periods to eliminate such failures. As has been highlighted before there are signifficant skills / labour shortages in the signalling design, installation and testing areas and NR cannot fix everything at once so some patience is required. However that does not mean the MML has been ‘forgotten’ as far as signalling goes....

[Dava]

As East Midlands Trains hands over to East Midlands Railway this weekend, as a frequent traveller I personally wish to recognise the EMT staff affected and sincerely hope they are valued and recognized in the future by Abellio, their new employer. Especially the on-train staff, those at Loughborough & Leicester stations and those who have kept the fleet running and off the depot on time in the mornings. This year and the last few weeks have not been easy ones, with many disruptions outside their and the operator's control which have affected their working lives. So thank you.

 

Dava

[ess1uk]

On 13/08/2019 at 00:24, Dava said:

London-Kettering-Corby looks set to be a modern, efficient outer London suburban railway. What seems likely to become the country branch to Leicester, Derby, Nottingham & Sheffield, with old signalling often failing & no eletrification, is much more of a concern. A cut-price, overcrowded & unreliable railway, certainly in recent weeks.

Bedford to Corby signalling has been updated  

[DY444]

On 13/08/2019 at 00:24, Dava said:

London-Kettering-Corby looks set to be a modern, efficient outer London suburban railway. What seems likely to become the country branch to Leicester, Derby, Nottingham & Sheffield, with old signalling often failing & no eletrification, is much more of a concern. A cut-price, overcrowded & unreliable railway, certainly in recent weeks.

 

London-Kettering-Corby will not be a modern, efficient outer London suburban railway because Thameslink with its over ambitious service profile and ability to cascade delays from south of the river and the ECML onto the MML will ensure that.

[RANGERS]

On 13/08/2019 at 00:24, Dava said:

London-Kettering-Corby looks set to be a modern, efficient outer London suburban railway. What seems likely to become the country branch to Leicester, Derby, Nottingham & Sheffield, with old signalling often failing & no eletrification, is much more of a concern. A cut-price, overcrowded & unreliable railway, certainly in recent weeks.

In my experience as a daily traveller, signal failures on the London - Bedford stretch are the cause of more and greater delays than any further north. Ironically the area around West Hampstead seems worst affected.

[RANGERS]

Progress on the wires at Corby station.

 

The first is looking South, the BSC branch is just visible through the greenery.

 

The second from the same spot looking north, the train was the 9.26 to Derby and behind it, the remains of the former down platform.

 

The final one is looking South from the opposite end of the platform, again the remains of the down platform.

 

In appearance, it looks largely completed, just needs some juice...oh, and some trains.

[Mallard60022]

Pardon me for popping in to this thread. I was passing south through Bromsgrove last week on a Hereford train. Did I really see OHL; the train was so full and I was jammed in the Driving end bike store area and could only just see out! I know it's off MML but I thought you guys/gals would know. Thanks. I'll delete once the answer has been kindly given.

Phil (MML from Sheffield to Brum New Street that day)

 

[Northroader]

Hows this for you, ducky?

Edited August 21, 2019 by Northroader