Midland Main Line Electrification

[Mike Storey]

They have still have to place dets as well though, don't they? Or am I mis-remembering my Rules and Regs? Is that not thought necessary with TC clips?

[Mark Saunders]

9 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

They have still have to place dets as well though, don't they? Or am I mis-remembering my Rules and Regs? Is that not thought necessary with TC clips?

 

Nothing has changed and you assume that nothing has worked till you receive  an assurance from the Signalman that trains have been stopped and you are protected by signals!

[iands]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

On-train staff shouldn't make such an assumption - because sections where axle counters are in use are clearly identified in the relevant Sectional Appendix.

Just re-read your post again Mike, are on-train staff usually issued with copies of the Sectional Appendix? By implication, Absolute Block sections are also denoted in the SAs, but , if the need arises, on-train staff would also need to place TC clips in AB areas even if there are no TCs available (a la Ais Gill 1995 as one example).

[Edwin_m]

2 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

They have still have to place dets as well though, don't they? Or am I mis-remembering my Rules and Regs? Is that not thought necessary with TC clips?

Not sure of the current situation, but if they have to do both the TC clip can be done much more quickly.  There used to be a sign in DMU cabs saying something like "Protection of Line - use TC Operating Clip First".  

[jim.snowdon]

3 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

Not sure of the current situation, but if they have to do both the TC clip can be done much more quickly.  There used to be a sign in DMU cabs saying something like "Protection of Line - use TC Operating Clip First".  

Is not the first action now to use the cab secure radio system to initiate an emergency call to the signaller (although that, at least in the London area, has an element of assumption that the call goes through to the right signalling centre)?

 

Jim

[caradoc]

Initiating a GSM-R Emergency Call should (should) ensure that all trains in that radio cell area come to a stand, whether actually affected by the emergency incident or not, which should (should again !) render TC operating clips unnecessary. However I presume discontinuing their use would be a step too far at present ?

[Mike Storey]

5 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

Not sure of the current situation, but if they have to do both the TC clip can be done much more quickly.  There used to be a sign in DMU cabs saying something like "Protection of Line - use TC Operating Clip First".  

 

Yes, that's what I remember. You place the TC clip as soon as you get down, and then walk back for a given distance to place three dets (and then forwards to do the same if on a single or Bi-Di line).

[Titan]

I would not have thought TC clips were necessary on a single line unless you were derailed all wheels...

[Mike Storey]

7 minutes ago, Titan said:

I would not have thought TC clips were necessary on a single line unless you were derailed all wheels...

 

No, you are right - I was thinking just of Bi-Di lines, not single lines as such. TC clips are only used on adjacent lines, if obstructed.

 

Only dets would be used on a single line, and then only if there is no token carried, or the Pilotman is not on board (or if assistance is required) - under the old Rules anyway.

[ess1uk]

10 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Is not the first action now to use the cab secure radio system to initiate an emergency call to the signaller (although that, at least in the London area, has an element of assumption that the call goes through to the right signalling centre)?

 

Jim

Yes 

GSMR 

and misrouted calls are not that common 

[iands]

1 hour ago, ess1uk said:

and misrouted calls are not that common 

Certainly less common now as you say ess1uk, but initially there were a number of misrouted calls until a number of "tweaks" were carried out (antenna re-orientations, ERPs adjusted, additional in-fill sites, etc.). As with new rolling stock (e.g. Flirt 745s/755s), any new Comms system (or Signalling system) has its settling in period to sort out teething problems. 

[The Stationmaster]

On 16/03/2020 at 15:00, iands said:

Just re-read your post again Mike, are on-train staff usually issued with copies of the Sectional Appendix? By implication, Absolute Block sections are also denoted in the SAs, but , if the need arises, on-train staff would also need to place TC clips in AB areas even if there are no TCs available (a la Ais Gill 1995 as one example).

Drivers and Guards should be issued with the relevant SA sections according to the routes their depot is authorised to work over.

 

as far as detonators are concerned there was a strong move afoot (I think coming from RSSB) about 18 months or so back to do away completely with detonators.  Fortunately the practical side of today's railway was able to put a stop to that particularly daft idea as there are still more than a few occasions and situations where detonators and a red flag or light are all to literally the last line of defence.  I managed to write them out of the Rules for a standard gauge leisure railway but it was made slightly easier because they rarely run trains after dark and, more importantly, they have only a limited number of full time staff in safety critical positions involved in train operation (they don't use volunteers, the GM can't stand having them on the railway's property!).  

 

I would find it very difficult to safely write detonators out of use on the national network because of the wide range of roles they perform but their availability and storage do present temptations to the explosively declined.  But quite what various members of a particular Irish organisation thought they were getting when they stole some back in the 1970s I really don't know - you have ti o hit one pretty hard to make it explode.. Perhaps they didn't know that a 'Railway Fog signal' is not the sort of 'detonator' they  had in mind?

[SouthernMafia]

On 17/03/2020 at 09:07, iands said:

Certainly less common now as you say ess1uk, but initially there were a number of misrouted calls until a number of "tweaks" were carried out (antenna re-orientations, ERPs adjusted, additional in-fill sites, etc.). As with new rolling stock (e.g. Flirt 745s/755s), any new Comms system (or Signalling system) has its settling in period to sort out teething problems. 

 

We often get problems at Paddington (though it may be better now) and on one occasion when I couldn't register the GSM-R, when I contacted the Signaller I got through to Three Bridges ROC ! The SPT was used thereafter!

 

I saw this picture taken recently at Harrowden Jnc, very different! 

 

 

So does this mean the electrification is now complete?

[chris p bacon]

Bromham road bridge over the MML just North of Bedford Station is set to reopen after its year long closure for  renewal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52888911

 

I've avoided parts of Bedford (not a bad thing anyway) whilst this has been going on, as it's been gridlock in places.

[phil-b259]

On 16/03/2020 at 17:24, Edwin_m said:

Not sure of the current situation, but if they have to do both the TC clip can be done much more quickly.  There used to be a sign in DMU cabs saying something like "Protection of Line - use TC Operating Clip First".  

Track circuit operating clips are useless if the line uses axle counters!

 

Given the use of extensive use of such things on busy main lines, A emergency GSMR call is by far the best way of protecting your train these days.

[Zomboid]

On 17/05/2020 at 16:37, SouthernMafia said:

So does this mean the electrification is now complete?

A couple of weeks ago the substations were being commissioned, so I doubt the job is complete yet.

[RANGERS]

On 02/06/2020 at 13:51, Zomboid said:

A couple of weeks ago the substations were being commissioned, so I doubt the job is complete yet.

Testing was due to begin this month but I'm not sure how the crisis has affected the timescales for this plan.

[geoff]

Test trains have run in May and the latest ran this week. ( 9 June 20 Leicester EMR OHL Train 47813 90035 91128 57310). The 90 and 91 were marshalled in a mixed rake of ex Virgin, East Coast and other coaches topped and tailed by the 47 and 57. None of the photographs I have seen show the pantographs raised on either of the electric locomotives so I wonder what it is that is being tested. The runs, according to RTT, cover the fast lines and the Corby line.

 

Geoff

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Any way to find out when these run? I would be interested in seeing a test train.  

[Chris116]

29 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Any way to find out when these run? I would be interested in seeing a test train.  

Careful study of Realtime Trains is about the only way that I know of. The easy way is to have a friend who works on the test trains and can give you advance notice. 

[St. Simon]

On 17/05/2020 at 16:37, SouthernMafia said:

So does this mean the electrification is now complete?

Hi,

 

As an update, I’ve just seen on LinkedIn that the final

wire was run out over the weekend. 
 

That means the electrification is now structurally complete, although not fully ‘complete’ to the point of being in service.

 

Simon

[geoff]

Just need some trains to play with now.

Geoff

 

[Shed]

Are the 91s our testing?

 

[Hairy Bear Digital]

No.  Got anything we can use in the meantime ?.

[ess1uk]

Longer platforms at Wellingborough and Kettering now too