Railway footage in feature films and television...

[73c]

Same as the film for Downton Abbey. They hired the LNER Gresley POS from the RVP for the opening scene of the letter from Buckingham Palace.

Coach built in 1937, film set in 1926 I believe. Day before setting up, I'd spent 2 hours 'chalking up' the frame, art department came in with bundles of letters and parcels and filled the frame. Next day, about 3qtrs of a day filming, job done. Screen time, about 10 seconds!

[Pacific231G]

13 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I know someone will shoot me down but the Burt Lancaster film “The Train” is really quite good for a Hollywood film, not just as a film but continuity as well.

I certainly won't shoot you down. The Train is an excellent film and all the railway scenes were filmed for real as live action with no use of VFX and were very  authentic. I've spent a fair number of enjoyable hours tracking down its main locations. Though much of it was filmed on a former Ouest/ Etat line south of Rouen that was already closed, someone took the trouble to supply a bunch of eastern region 230Bs that were coming out of service and move them over to the western region for the filming. The elderly  0-6-0 that started the crash sequence (and apparently destroying all but one or two of the cameras filming it) wasn't an Est loco but an ex CF de l'Ouest 030C, a nineteenth century design built between 1867-1895 that somehow survived until 1965, well into the final decade of steam on the SNCF. 

The other main anomalies that I could see were the role of  Burt Lancaster's character Labiche, who seemed to be running both the traction and traffic departments of a large part of the SNCF's eastern region; while still being a qualified mecanicien;  the apperance in the wider shots of the Vaires sheds of a number of 141Rs and a post war Peugeot in its car park; the rather odd sight of Labiche throwing a hand operated point lever to open a distant set of points to let the art train through during the air raid;  and, if you're being a real stickler, the section of track that Labiche unbolted to finally stop the train was chaired bullhead (double-champignon) that was widely used in the west and south west of France but not on the Est.

The major difficulty, but it applies to most movies set on British and other European railways, is that almost all the main lines they're supposedly running on are single track. That's obviously a function of where you can fillm real steam era trains and something that Hollywood would barely be aware of given how much of the US main line network is single track. 

 

Those are all real nitpicks though and the reality of the railway being operated under almost impossibly difficult wartime conditions was very well portrayed. I've seen few films that portrayed railway operations quite so realistically and with so few obvious howlers. Emperor of the North sticks in my mind and there is of course the semi-documentary  and somewhat idealised 1945  film La Bataille du Rail about the Resistance Fer (railway resistance) in France.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Pacific231G

[ejstubbs]

15 hours ago, PatB said:

The BP model railway wasn't getting many outings by the time I was watching on a regular basis, although I do remember a piece in one of the Annuals, from which I think that track plan came. I don't remember it having much, if anything in the way of scenery, beyond, IIRC, a Triang Grand Suspension Bridge on the high level line.

 

This YouTube video features brief clips of the original Blue Peter model railway through from 1962 to 1994, and its replacement:

 

 

As you say, the original layout didn't have much in the way of scenery.  Its successor was rather more thoroughly sceniced, but still isn't the one in Endeavour.

[lmsforever]

On 28/10/2020 at 12:41, Pacific231G said:

I certainly won't shoot you down. The Train is an excellent film and all the railway scenes were filmed for real as live action with no use of VFX and were very  authentic. I've spent a fair number of enjoyable hours tracking down its main locations. Though much of it was filmed on a former Ouest/ Etat line south of Rouen that was already closed, someone took the trouble to supply a bunch of eastern region 230Bs that were coming out of service and move them over to the western region for the filming. The elderly  0-6-0 that started the crash sequence (and apparently destroying all but one or two of the cameras filming it) wasn't an Est loco but an ex CF de l'Ouest 030C, a nineteenth century design built between 1867-1895 that somehow survived until 1965, well into the final decade of steam on the SNCF. 

The other main anomalies that I could see were the role of  Burt Lancaster's character Labiche, who seemed to be running both the traction and traffic departments of a large part of the SNCF's eastern region; while still being a qualified mecanicien;  the apperance in the wider shots of the Vaires sheds of a number of 141Rs and a post war Peugeot in its car park; the rather odd sight of Labiche throwing a hand operated point lever to open a distant set of points to let the art train through during the air raid;  and, if you're being a real stickler, the section of track that Labiche unbolted to finally stop the train was chaired bullhead (double-champignon) that was widely used in the west and south west of France but not on the Est.

The major difficulty, but it applies to most movies set on British and other European railways, is that almost all the main lines they're supposedly running on are single track. That's obviously a function of where you can fillm real steam era trains and something that Hollywood would barely be aware of given how much of the US main line network is single track. 

 

Those are all real nitpicks though and the reality of the railway being operated under almost impossibly difficult wartime conditions was very well portrayed. I've seen few films that portrayed railway operations quite so realistically and with so few obvious howlers. Emperor of the North sticks in my mind and there is of course the semi-documentary  and somewhat idealised 1945  film La Bataille du Rail about the Resistance Fer (railway resistance) in France.

 

 shown as to be worried by the resistance and it came in many forms

Totally agree magnificent film Lancasters best all details were correct especially the way locals were put on the front of trains.The occupying force were shown worried by the the resistance which they never knew where it was coming from.Also the depiction of home life under German control was showed as it was  crushing total control.Railway restance was at a very high level and many men were slaughtered in hundreds ,brave men who deserve every memorial placed in France.Rail resistants played a big part in D Day and frequently changed the destination cards on wagon loads important to the Germans sending them far away from where they should be.All in all the film is a spellbinding recreation of what probably happenned many times in 1944. 

[whart57]

Railway workers in Holland were also a key part of the Resistance. The Government in exile called them out on strike in September 1944 to hamper German movements in conjunction with the airborne landings at Arnhem. The workers then had to stay in hiding up till liberation when they then found a railway system completely wrecked. Trains didn't run until several months after the end of the war and then only piecemeal.

 

One aside was that one of the most popular programmes on Dutch radio in 1945 and early 1946 was a half hour or so programme once a week where the boss of Netherlands Railways talked about the restoration work and announced where the trains would be running again.

[Pacific231G]

On 27/10/2020 at 13:53, luckymucklebackit said:

I think it has been discussed on this forum before, but there is also an episode of Morse where one of the suspects, an American Tourist, is under observation and they think he is doing a runner, only for him to be found visiting the GWR centre at Didcot.

 

Jim

The Wolvercote Tongue  was shown on one of the channels yesterday but I only got to it after the Didcot scene. Curses.  

[Pacific231G]

7 hours ago, lmsforever said:

Totally agree magnificent film Lancasters best all details were correct especially the way locals were put on the front of trains.The occupying force were shown worried by the the resistance which they never knew where it was coming from.Also the depiction of home life under German control was showed as it was  crushing total control.Railway restance was at a very high level and many men were slaughtered in hundreds ,brave men who deserve every memorial placed in France.Rail resistants played a big part in D Day and frequently changed the destination cards on wagon loads important to the Germans sending them far away from where they should be.All in all the film is a spellbinding recreation of what probably happenned many times in 1944. 

Indeed. But if you want a fuller picture of the railway resistance activities in France you should try to get to see La Bataille du Rail -released in 1946. There are various extracts on you tube and from INA including this one that makes your point

https://youtu.be/XdnPoSE9jWc

and this one showing a rather spectacular effort to prevent German units from getting to Normandy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bCz5WWprY

It's pretty clear that Frankenheimer was inspired by this earlier film when making The Train.

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Pacific231G

[Pandora]

On 28/10/2020 at 15:22, ejstubbs said:

 

This YouTube video features brief clips of the original Blue Peter model railway through from 1962 to 1994, and its replacement:

 

 

As you say, the original layout didn't have much in the way of scenery.  Its successor was rather more thoroughly sceniced, but still isn't the one in Endeavour.

Why did Blue Peter have a model railway in the programme?  A professional bond between presenter Christopher Trace and programme creator John Hunter Blair who were both model railway enthusiasts.

[ejstubbs]

10 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

The Wolvercote Tongue  was shown on one of the channels yesterday but I only got to it after the Didcot scene. Curses.

 

It should be streamable on ITV Hub (although they can be a bit flaky with the actual process of making shows on the 'lesser' ITV channels available online).

[lmsforever]

9 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Indeed. But if you want a fuller picture of the railway resistance activities in France you should try to get to see La Bataille du Rail -released in 1946. There are various extracts on you tube and from INA including this one that makes your point

https://youtu.be/XdnPoSE9jWc

and this one showing a rather spectacular effort to prevent German units from getting to Normandy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bCz5WWprY

It's pretty clear that Frankenheimer was inspired by this earlier film when making The Train.

 

Most certainly an excellent film will watch the full film very emotive ,the resitants were indeed brave and dedicated to their cause.Thanks for highliting.

 

 

[Pacific231G]

4 hours ago, Pandora said:

Why did Blue Peter have a model railway in the programme?  A professional bond between presenter Christopher Trace and programme creator John Hunter Blair who were both model railway enthusiasts.

There's a lot more about John Hunter Blair here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/genome/entries/e76c6379-48b7-4da4-bf0f-18bc29fbb680

and it seems he was including model railway items in childrens's output even before Blue Peter. It also seems to have been their mutual interest in model railways that had a lot to do with Christopher Trace becoming the programme's first co-presenter. There's a curious comment though about the Children's TV Department not existing by the 1960s. I worked in TV Presentation at Television Centre in the mid to late 1970s and it definitely existed then more or less "owning" the period before the six o clock news.  Also, when Dr. Who began in 1963 it was made by the Drama Department over the objections  of the Children's Department so the latter must have existed then.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Pacific231G

[steve1]

Didn't Michael Bentine 'blow up' the BP model railway as a gag on Trace, only for Bentine to reveal it was a copy?

 

steve

[petethemole]

On TCM+1 right now, 'Denver and Rio Grande' (1952) about violent competition over routes between two railroads.

[The Stationmaster]

A not very good 1950s short drama on tonight on Channel 81, Talking Pictures, called 'Devil's Bait'.  Slightly silly story but the best bit by far was a very clear shot of 9422 making a shunt move at Beaconsfield. 

Here's a screen grab from Reelstreets as 9422 is starting its move towards the camera -

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by The Stationmaster

[doilum]

Outside my knowledge zone, but last night's Top Gear had background shots of disused railway stock on Salisbury Plain. No doubt someone will be able to identify the various items.

[petethemole]

No doubt used for training soldiers to deal with enemies who have hijacked a train and teleported it to the middle of nowhere.

[Ben B]

4 hours ago, doilum said:

Outside my knowledge zone, but last night's Top Gear had background shots of disused railway stock on Salisbury Plain. No doubt someone will be able to identify the various items.

 

I gather it's a feature of a former cold war-era training village, built to represent an East German village with a variety of "typical features". I remember discussing it with a relative who'd been in the T.A once when it was on telly years ago, he said it was completed just in time for the end of the Cold War. A mature student classmate at Uni had also trained there as a tank crewman before Kosovo.

 

The railway yard is mostly old MoD vans, ferry vans and things made redundant by the closure of sidings at bases and modernisation of rolling stock (There looked to be a lot of 4 wheeled wooden vans in the episode). The Ruston (I think) diesel shunter still had a number visible, someone more knowledable on MoD railways could probably spot where it came from.

 

Off-topic, but there's often fascinating bits like this scattered around as training tools. When I was younger I visited the Fire Service Training College at Moreton-in-Marsh a few times whilst my Dad was stationed there (in the late 90's they still allowed staff families in sometimes of an evening if there were no night excercises on.  We used to cycle round the perimeter track). The old airfield was chocka with classic planes and cars rusting away. There was a specially-built double tracked railway with crashed train, from memory a class 33 and three derailed mk2s, and a shunter with tankers. I think at least one of the locos was bought by a preservation society in the 2000's.

[PatB]

7 hours ago, Ben B said:

Off-topic, but there's often fascinating bits like this scattered around as training tools. When I was younger I visited the Fire Service Training College at Moreton-in-Marsh a few times whilst my Dad was stationed there (in the late 90's they still allowed staff families in sometimes of an evening if there were no night excercises on.  We used to cycle round the perimeter track). The old airfield was chocka with classic planes and cars rusting away. There was a specially-built double tracked railway with crashed train, from memory a class 33 and three derailed mk2s, and a shunter with tankers. I think at least one of the locos was bought by a preservation society in the 2000's.

Possibly not entirely off topic. Many years ago, ISTR Blue Peter, or, possibly some other programme, doing a piece on an emergency services training exercise involving the aftermath of a train crash, which may very well have been there. I remember the reporter (who may, or may not, have been Simon Groom) playing the part of one of the casualties, with a moderately stomach-churningly make-up rendered arm laceration.

[InterCitySpud]

I cant see it mentioned anywhere so I'll add this.

 

Back when I was a young teen I saw this film on TV, it was on just before Christmas I think and must have been around 1982/83. It's a really enjoyable Enid Blyton Famous Five adaptation called Island of Adventure, with some recognisable faces including Wilfred Bramble.

 

It's set in Cornwall with quite a few HST clips throughout, entering Cornwall over The Royal Albert bridge and arriving at Penzance. One of the kids parents was clearly loaded and fortunately for them they travelled First Class so some nice clips of the original orange interior!

 

First clips from 8 mins.

 

https://archive.org/details/IslandOfAdventure1982Divx

[jetmorgan]

Another Talking Pics TV film on a while ago "The Proud Valley" starring Paul Robeson set in a mining town in south Wales. Opening scenes have a small prairie on a coal train and Paul Robeson hitching a lift. There are also a couple of scenes of an industrial saddle tank at the coal mine a studio scene of the pit head and coal tubs. A bit of inspiration for coal pit modellers

[Welchester]

1 hour ago, jetmorgan said:

Another Talking Pics TV film on a while ago "The Proud Valley" starring Paul Robeson set in a mining town in south Wales. Opening scenes have a small prairie on a coal train and Paul Robeson hitching a lift. There are also a couple of scenes of an industrial saddle tank at the coal mine a studio scene of the pit head and coal tubs. A bit of inspiration for coal pit modellers

 

I'm surprised that divided coal train wasn't stopped.

[Andy Kirkham]

There's no sign of urban or industrial development in the valley with the 4575. I wonder if it could be the Wye valley between Chepstow and Monmouth.

 

You can tell that the industrial loco is a Peckett by the short horizontal handrail low down on the tank side.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Andy Kirkham

[62613]

40 minutes ago, Andy Kirkham said:

There's no sign of urban or industrial development in the valley with the 4575. I wonder if it could be the Wye valley between Chepstow and Monmouth.

 

You can tell that the industrial loco is a Peckett by the short horizontal handrail low down on the tank side.

Now that you mention it, it certainly looks a bit Forest of Dean.

 

[Andy Kirkham]

1 hour ago, 62613 said:

Now that you mention it, it certainly looks a bit Forest of Dean.

 

I admit I don't know the Tondu valleys at all; I have an idea that some of them have some fairly unspoilt stretches so perhaps one of those is a possibility, but I don't know if any of them are quite as lush as appears in these screenshots. I'm sure The Johnster would be qualified to judge.

 

But I think most lines in the mining valleys would be ruled out because they were mainly double track.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Andy Kirkham

[Ben B]

Is the pit-head scene an indoor, recreated set?  Something about the lighting would seem to suggest so.  If it's the case, they've done a pretty elaborate build.