SR 25t Pill Box brake van

[Butler Henderson]

The pricing is reflective of the assembly time, theres a lot more parts to put together for the pill box than a Queen Mary, if models wrere priced simply on their size how come n gauge stuff is not far cheaper.

[Not Captain Kernow]

_{The Queen Mary was also tooled many many many years ago!}

Edited May 14, 2014 by Not Captain Kernow

[adrianbs]

Hi all    Yes I had  indeed noticed the prices mentioned above which may well put off a fair few from buying the Pillbox but it will be a problem even for those who wish to obtain them as they are now few and far between, both on retailers sites and Ebay.  The Queen Mary although many years old does not suffer from quite as many misplaced rivets although the rail along the bottom of the side has quite a few missing or misplaced.  It too seems only to be available in the less interesting liveries.   The detailing on the QM is pretty good even though the plank grooves are very overscale like the Pillbox. The verttical steel members are rather overdone in thickness anf the handrails are not separate but still look OK from normal viewing distance   The bogies are accurate apart from the details which are in the wrong plane ( Brakeshoes and central bolsters )  I am not sure why the bogie van is so much cheaper, or rather, why the Pillbox is so much more expensive, this may well be a sign of things to come. I wanted a train of Warflats but they are still not available and I rather doubt the original price indication on one retailers site of £21+ for the version with the tank is going to be anywhere near the actual figure. The preorder prices are no longer guaranteed so it will be no good whacking in large orders in the hope of saving a lot of money !!!   The warflat itself is a fairly easy to produce model but if the Tank is going to be reasonably accurate it will be a major part of the price. There are many partwork 1/72 tanks available and the prices are around the £10 mark. I just hope the tank is 4mm scale and not 1/72. so until it i released I will be saving my money or more likely building a few more of my own kits.

            Regards all adrianbs

[JSpencer]

Hi all    Yes I had  indeed noticed the prices mentioned above which may well put off a fair few from buying the Pillbox but it will be a problem even for those who wish to obtain them as they are now few and far between, both on retailers sites and Ebay.  The Queen Mary although many years old does not suffer from quite as many misplaced rivets although the rail along the bottom of the side has quite a few missing or misplaced.  It too seems only to be available in the less interesting liveries.   The detailing on the QM is pretty good even though the plank grooves are very overscale like the Pillbox. The verttical steel members are rather overdone in thickness anf the handrails are not separate but still look OK from normal viewing distance   The bogies are accurate apart from the details which are in the wrong plane ( Brakeshoes and central bolsters )  I am not sure why the bogie van is so much cheaper, or rather, why the Pillbox is so much more expensive, this may well be a sign of things to come. I wanted a train of Warflats but they are still not available and I rather doubt the original price indication on one retailers site of £21+ for the version with the tank is going to be anywhere near the actual figure. The preorder prices are no longer guaranteed so it will be no good whacking in large orders in the hope of saving a lot of money !!!   The warflat itself is a fairly easy to produce model but if the Tank is going to be reasonably accurate it will be a major part of the price. There are many partwork 1/72 tanks available and the prices are around the £10 mark. I just hope the tank is 4mm scale and not 1/72. so until it i released I will be saving my money or more likely building a few more of my own kits.

            Regards all adrianbs

Going Slightly OT, I too wonder how much the war flats with load will be in the end. Bachmann say they will have Cromwell tank loads based on scans from 2 examples in Bovington - which leads me to suspect that one tank might actually be a Comet tank (late Cromwell hull, new turret and gun). In 1/72nd pre made are Ixomodels version, fairly cheap though not crisp and Hobbymaster, much crisper but far more expensive model. You also have revel kit (that I cannot see Bachmann building!) and in 1/76, the recently introduced Airfix kit which is a good model but I cannot see Bachmann doing.

I suspect in practice EFE will turn out the tanks which would put them slightly better than Ixomodels but not were near as good as Hobbymaster.

 

I agree the pillbox is more recent offering with probably more fitted parts than a Queen Mary, I find it hard to believe that most will be prepared to pay £25 for what is rather secondary item ( a break van). If people do pay that then I will sell my pair.

[Not Captain Kernow]

I rather doubt the original price indication on one retailers site of £21+ for the version with the tank is going to be anywhere near the actual figure.

As Bachmann have never given an RRP for the Warflat whatever price indication that retailer has given is basically made up!  A similar thing has been done with the Brighton Atlantic which cannot possibly be anywhere near the made up price.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...If people do pay that then I will sell my pair.

[Tangent] Best entrant for 2014 double entendre of the Year award. [/Tangent]

[adrianbs]

Hi  34 etc   I think I got it this time, but perhaps best not to explain if I did     adrianbs

[adrianbs]

Hi All   Had the new price for the Bachmann Pillbox been the result of a complete retool and all the errors eliminated I think I would have spent the money although I would most likely have looked around for a discount deal.  Hornby have been forced to retool their Gresley coaches for the third time and I assume that is why the prices are now so high.

Had they done a "Proper job" i.e. retooled the tumblehome, the chassis and the bogies as well, to eliminate the remaining major errors I shudder to think what the RRP would now be, £70,  £80,  £99-95 ??  If the price had to go up £10 just to move the incorrect beading,then narrowing the chassis and new tools for the bogies  plus new sides again for the tumblehome------  !!!.  If Bachmann's price hike of 20%  has still to be added by Hornby to their prices then even without mods, the coaches may be over £70 next year.

     Looks like the "Made in Britain" logo may soon be appearing on many products involving low levels of unskilled labour. Mine are and alway have been to a very large extent and my prices become more competitive every year.        Regards all  adrianbs

[adrianbs]

Hi  Belgian,  Not much!! What is even worse is that when first announced the price was £12-40 although I am unsure if the first batch actually sold at that RRP, does anyone know??.  This means that since September 2012 when the first models left the shops until May 2014 when the new price was announced, Bachmann's price for a standard unweathered model has almost doubled.  If the rises that Bachmann have stated for Chinese workers are actually carried out the price could well be about  £27.or more this time next year.

   I decided to have a look at Barry's Cambrian kit versions whilst at EXPOEM and finished up buying a 25T and a 12T van. Whether  I ever find time to do anyrhing with them I don't know but I should be able to turn a pretty penny profit if I sell the Bachmann ones to a non-rivet counting modeller next year.   I might regret this latest purchase if the RTR model gets retooled for the next batch but I would not put much money on that happening.        

       Regards  adrianbs.

[Robin Brasher]

The Bachmann pill-box brake van seems like good value for money compared with the Hornby-Dublo D1 SR goods brake van and is a better model. According to the seventh edition of Ramsay's British Model Trains Catalogue a mint boxed Hornby-Dublo SR goods brake van is worth £150.

[Dunsignalling]

The Bachmann pill-box brake van seems like good value for money compared with the Hornby-Dublo D1 SR goods brake van and is a better model. According to the seventh edition of Ramsay's British Model Trains Catalogue a mint boxed Hornby-Dublo SR goods brake van is worth £150.

Not to me it isn't! Overrated nostalgia fodder.

 

John

[Andy Y]

Please note, postings relating to Dapol 7mm pill-box vans have been removed as irrelevant to this topic.

[adrianbs]

Hi Andy Y,  Perhaps you would be kind enough to return my posts which you found irrelevant so that they can be used in the correct forum. The title of this forum makes no mention of Bachmann so seemed a perfect place for comments about any SR Pillbox brakevan    Regards  adrianbs

[Not Captain Kernow]

Hi Andy Y,  Perhaps you would be kind enough to return my posts which you found irrelevant so that they can be used in the correct forum. The title of this forum makes no mention of Bachmann so seemed a perfect place for comments about any SR Pillbox brakevan    Regards  adrianbs

No mention of Bachmann in the title of this forum?

 

RMweb

• → Trade & Products Zone
• → Products & Trade area
• → Bachmann

Seems quite clear it is Bachmann to me...

[adrianbs]

Hi all  Every other forum I have posted on specifically gives the manufacturer in the title at the top pf the page. This one does not, so one might be forgiven for assuming it to be a general forum on SR pillbox brakevans in any scale or from any manufacturer.  I notice references to the Cambrian model have not been deleted.! 

            Regards all  adrianbs

Edited June 24, 2014 by adrianbs

[adrianbs]

Hi All,  It was extremely enterprising of Bachmann to do the two different underframes, steps and body designs but they have been a bit too clever for their own good  if the picture of 55583 on page 4 of the forum  is of a typical model. They have, at least on that example, made a faux pas and put the later underframe on a van which should have the early underframe but later step unit. The steps appear to be separate mouldings so I assume they could be interchanged on either solebar although I do not wish to try prising mine off to check.   There are suitable numbers from Paul Bartletts invaluable files and 56094 and 56118 would seem good candidates. I do not have a full house of these models so I am not sure if others suffer the same problem.  The two SR livery vans are correct in this respect.  Only even plank RH ducket vans Nos 55519 to 55538 ; 55566 to 55585 and 55993 to 56022, 70 vans in total had this combination. All the other 200 even plank RH ducket vans and 2+2 van had the later chassis.

    An interesting colour option is to paint the solebars and buffer beams in BR grey like the body.  There may have been quite a few like this but they are usually so filthy the colour of most vans is a mottled grey-brown sludge making the original livery difficult to determine even in colour pictures. It is rather a pity that so much was invested in so many different mould tools without making more effort to ensure they were accurate  Personally I would have preferred one accurate model with various liveries rather than almost every possible model all with a large number of errors.  

     Eventually there will be a RTR one that is accurate but probably not in my lifetime now this one has queered the pitch.

                     Regards all adrianbs

Edited July 1, 2014 by adrianbs

[Peter Bedding]

Hello Adrian

 

Your criticisms of the Bachmann Pill box Brake Van may well be accurate, but are not further improved by endless repetition. Personally, I welcomed this model exactly as is, just as I would welcome some extra running numbers, any of which will follow the Wainwright locos.

 

PB

[adrianbs]

Hi Peter Bedding   It is not just the axleguards that differ, as previously mentioned but the solebar, detailing is also different  Had Bachmann been a bit more clued up about southern brakevans you could probably already  have a SECR "Dancehall" brakevan for your  Wainright loco. Why do I say this ?? because if instead of doing all the different variants of the SR Pillbox design they could have used the tooling money to do the body for the "Dance hall" which would have fitted on the chassis of the early SR Pillbox van. The SECR design was actually carried over onto the first 150 SR vans with very little alteration. Clearly the faults already mentioned in my post 131 would still exist if they had not been eliminated by their QC department.  The cost of the body and a new step unit would be roughly what they would have saved on only tooling one Pillbox van and additionally, with some extra components and a bit of "Clever design" they could also have done the  SR rebuilt permanent way batch of 10.

      Admittedly  these vans probably never received SECR livery but the earlier batch did, and provided you accept the slightly different design with 12" solebars which your standards would obviously allow you could have been a happy bunny !

     I thought it might be helpful to give some alternate numbers to correct the Dapol van but obviously you would rather I did not.  Additionally anyone modelling after 1982 should also renumber the olive green ZTP van as Paul B's photos show that it looked very different after the rebuild.

    adrianbs

Edited July 1, 2014 by adrianbs

[MartinTrucks]

Apologies if this is not the most current thread on the topic, but I was unable to find another. I have a handfull of the Bachmann models but am missing a RH ducket, even planked version in a Southern Railway livery (Yes, I have the RH 2+2 variant). Did Bachmann ever produce one?

Thanks,

Martin

[Wickham Green]

Apologies if this is not the most current thread on the topic, but I was unable to find another. I have a handfull of the Bachmann models but am missing a RH ducket, even planked version in a Southern Railway livery (Yes, I have the RH 2+2 variant). Did Bachmann ever produce one?

Thanks,

Martin

That would have been a 38-402 variant and your internet search will probably find the same as mine .................. nothing in S.R. livery !

[Pinehill]

I note that Bachmann have new listings for the Pill Box brake vans (38-401B grey & 38-402B brown). Does anybody know if the faults with the original batch, discussed at length, have been eliminated & when these 'new' versions are due from Bachmann. I suspect that it is just a reissue/ renumbering exercise from Bachmann but you never know your luck - they may have listened!

[Pinehill]

Well, I do not need to wait now until Bachmann issue them again! Managed to recently get a grey one & later a bauxite one on EBay for around £20 each including postage. Both unused but one without a box. The most noticeable error (chimney on the grey one) corrected & both weathered with my airbrush etc. They look a treat.