Guest pfplowman Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hello Phil I can confirm that The MREmag & RMweb Wishlist Poll will show: 4-6-0 LSWR/SR S15 (30496-30515, 30823-30847) Traditionally, locos are normally shown as (eg) LSWR/SR S15 4-6-0 - ie with the wheel arrangement last. We have listed all steam locos with the wheel arrangement first - in order smallest to largest. When you see the list, it is very easy to follow. Regards Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Why bother to run the poll when it is already known the S15 will poll miles ahead of the rest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Is there a smiley missing from that post? Anyway whats coming second? mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pfplowman Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Is there a smiley missing from that post? Anyway whats coming second? mark The LSWR Black Motor 0-6-0! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted March 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hello Ravenser The Poll text has, indeed, been updated to reflect the Bachmann announcements. In the 00 Poll, the D11/2 has been deleted, leaving the D11/1 in situ. All the items mentioned above are still listed in the N Poll (even though they may have been deleted/amended in the 00 Poll). Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2012 ...... The Poll text has, indeed, been updated to reflect the Bachmann announcements...... Only one day left and we can start voting !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted March 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2012 The MREmag & RMweb Wishlist Poll 2012 – Questions & Answers Dear All Before The Poll ‘goes live’ tomorrow (Monday 19 March), we thought you might like to have some questions answered in advance. Andy York has OK’d publication here. Pat Hammond will publish the same thing tomorrow on MREmag. What is the background to The MREmag & RMweb Wishlist Poll? For nearly a decade, model railway historian and author Pat Hammond has run an annual model railway wishlist poll on his on-line modelling magazine, MREmag (www.mremag.com). In response to feedback from voters that they wanted to see ‘rationalisation’ in 2012, Pat asked a new team – comprising nine highly-experienced modellers – to overhaul the content. Who is in The Poll Team? We are (alphabetically): Neil Burgess, Robert Carroll, Chris Knowles-Thomas, John Lewis, Jeff Lynn, Brian Macdermott, Nick Stanbury, Ian Taylor and Glen Woods. We bring with us more than 400 years’ combined experience of railway modelling – and some members of the team are published book/magazine article authors; some have model trade experience; some are ex-BR staff; some are working on preserved railways Do you get paid? No. We are neither commercially sponsored, nor remunerated. What is the purpose of The Poll? It is to enable the railway modelling and collecting community to let the major ready-to-run manufacturers and those who commission models know which railway models they would like to see made from new tooling. It is intended to evaluate what participants would realistically buy – not what participants would like to see ‘win’. Who do you see as the ‘major’ manufacturers and those who commission models? We see the major ready-to-run manufacturers as: Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan, Hornby and Peco. We see those who commission models as: Hattons, Hornby Magazine, Ian Allan, Kernow Model Centre, Model Rail, Model Zone, NRM, Olivia’s Trains, Rail Exclusives, Rails of Sheffield, STEAM Museum (Swindon) and TMC. What will voters find when they first ‘click’ into The Poll? The title page gives some background as well as ‘links’ to our Jargon Buster, bibliography, list of websites and The Guide. However, there is no actual need to access these – if you are an experienced modeller who knows what you want, you can ‘dive straight in’ to the N or 00 Polls via the link at the foot of that page. For those who need a little reassurance, The Guide will help. Let’s say that you are a Southern Region modeller looking to broaden your range of green coaches but don’t know which of the three types of Tavern Car Sets would best suit your needs. Within The Guide you will find seven lines of text about each to help you put them in context. Some voters might find it useful to print out The Guide and study it at leisure prior to voting. It is listed in exactly the same order as the voting pages, so you can use it as a planner. What happens when voters ‘click’ into the actual voting link? They will find 29 voting categories covering the ‘Big Four’ and on up to the modern day. If you are only interested in, say, 00 GWR locos, all you need do is ‘click’ GWR – Steam Locos, and up will come a clear list of 46 locos by order of wheel arrangement, smallest to largest. BR running number ranges are stated (where appropriate). If you want to vote in any or all of the other 28 categories, simply ‘click’ on those you want, and up will come the relevant list(s). You will be able to ‘save’ your selections and come back later. It’s a good idea to do that to obviate any possibility of getting ‘timed out’. What about the other categories? A number of The Team come from editorial backgrounds, so we have not only considered what is listed, but how it is listed. We have ‘stylised’ the listings, which will make it easier to find specific items. For example, we have separated BR steam/diesel era freight vehicles from those of the TOPS era and have split the previous single listing of Quad/Quint Art sets into two (viz. Quad Arts GN Section, and Quint Arts GE Section). General Railway Service vehicles are in a separate category. Are voters still restricted to 10 votes? No. Voters can now vote for whatever they would realistically like to see made and would realistically like to buy. Won’t you get lots of voters ticking all the items? We like to think that modellers and collectors are intelligent folk who will ‘play the game’ in the way it is intended. We did consider an ‘upper limit’, but felt that it wasn’t for us to decide – however, we do urge voters to only vote for what they would realistically like to see made and realistically buy. If you bought just one of every item listed you wouldn’t get much change out of £50,000. How have the lists been compiled? The Poll could easily show over 10,000 items if every loco and item of rolling stock that ever ran on the railways of this country was listed! Clearly, that’s not practical. The Poll Team has carefully re-viewed what voters said they wanted. We have balanced that against what is typically being made by the major manufacturers and those who commission such models. There were calls for the lists to be rationalised – how have you done that? We have excluded in general any item that has been produced since 1 January 2000 from new tooling; or has been announced since the 2011 Poll for future production from new tooling. Other examples of exclusions are: airport inter-terminal systems; dock, military and industrial systems; broad and narrow gauge stock; tram, metro and underground systems; and Thomas the Tank. What items have you deleted? We deleted several as a result of Hornby’s January announcements, and we have deleted a number subsequent to those of Bachmann on 13 March 2012. Interestingly, Hornby’s SR PP-sets, Van B, Thompson non-gangwayed stock and 42xx were top of the respective categories in 2011 – and the 72xx was second in GWR steam locos. Bachmann’s Compound, LMS Goods Brake Van, J11, Fish Van, PMV and Class 101 were all in the respective top tens. How will you know what eras and companies and/or BR regions are of greatest interest? We have provided a table based on Bachmann eras, and voters can tick whatever they like. That will show us which are the most popular, and we will be able to gauge company/BR regional interest through the overall results. All items are prefixed GWR, LMS, Class x etc – when you see the Top 50 list, voters’ preferences will be abundantly clear! Is the Poll just for locos, coaches and wagons? No. We have plenty of DMUs and EMUs as well as a category entitled ‘Other Items’ in which voters will find such diversity as signals, turntables, level crossings and pigeon baskets. Will there be anywhere for voters to say how many they want of any item? No. Please see ‘the purpose of The Poll’ above. Will there be anywhere for voters to vote on wheel standards or liveries? No. Please see ‘the purpose of The Poll’ above. (The purpose helps keep the good ship Wishlist on a very steady course!) A recently-published book says that around 200 liveries and variants have disappeared since 1994. With that in mind – and after much deliberation – we came to the conclusion that it was too vast a subject to contemplate. However, a correspondent suggested that we looked at it again, and we did – but that evaluation only served to bolster more firmly our original decision. Will you be showing photos of any or all of the items? No. We took the view that photos might turn The Poll into ‘a model supermarket’. Local/national elections and most polls assume voters to have made some prior effort in considering who or what they want to vote for. If voters do find they need help, we have mentioned earlier that The Guide, the Jargon Buster, the bibliography and the list of websites will all be sitting in the wings ready to help. You will find ‘links’ to photos in a number of places. Is the N data the same as that for 00? No. Naturally, there are many overlaps, but the two are materially different. Why aren’t you running an 0 gauge poll? We simply did not have the time or resources this year. Rest assured, though, that it will be an agenda item for 2013. What if a voter’s favourite item isn’t listed? Although the Poll Team has taken great care to include what voters said they wanted last year, there will almost certainly be some omissions. To overcome this, voters will find a box where they can suggest up to five items for inclusion in the 2013 Poll. Please note, though, that that is the only place where we will accept suggestions for future inclusion. If you don’t enter, we won’t take suggestions on board. That is because The Poll is ‘by the modeller, for the modeller’ and it would be unfair on participants to list anything suggested by a non-participant in the future. Do you ‘collect’ or ‘store’ voters’ email addresses? No. Andy York of RMweb has constructed the computer elements of The Poll, using text supplied by The Poll Team. Andy has fully assured us that whilst his system checks emails for double-voting etc, it does not ‘keep records’. (See also Andy’s postings Nos.98 and 112 on this thread.) When will the MREmag & RMweb Wishlist Poll 2012 ‘go live’? We ‘go live’ on Monday 19 March and run until Sunday 15 April. See RMweb’s home page on Monday 19 March. When will the results be published? We aim to publish the results by no later than Wednesday 25 April – but please watch MREmag and RMweb for details nearer the time. We know of at least two printed magazines who will also publish them. Does The Poll Team expect the ‘top’ items to be made? We have spoken to the manufacturers and assured them that The Poll results are ‘wishes’ – not ‘demands’. The manufacturers have to balance voters’ wishes against their current and proposed portfolios – as well as those of their competitors. To us, it’s a hobby; to them, it’s a matter of what contributes most to ‘the bottom line’. We have to appreciate that difference. What if voters have a query on the content of The MREmag & RMweb Wishlist Poll? Please email us at: ThePollTeam(at)gmail(dot)com. A reply will normally be sent within 24 hours. We will also answer queries here on RMweb. Bear in mind, though, that not every member of The Team is at their computer 24 hours a day, and it might take a few days for a full answer. What if voters have any technical difficulties whilst voting? Please email Andy York: info(at)rmweb.co.uk. Voters will see details on The Poll pages. Anything you want to add? We have been supported by all the model railway magazines and several other publications, shops and clubs – to them, we say many thanks. It is much appreciated! Our thanks also go to Pat Hammond and Andy York for their commitment to this project – again, much appreciated! We hope you all enjoy voting. The Poll Team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 Do you ‘collect’ or ‘store’ voters’ email addresses? No. Andy York of RMweb has constructed the computer elements of The Poll, using text supplied by The Poll Team. Andy has fully assured us that whilst his system checks emails for double-voting etc, it does not ‘keep records’. (See also Andy’s postings Nos.98 and 112 on this thread.) Just as a point of clarification you are not required to enter an email address so it can't be stored. There are other safeguards in place to identify duplicate voting and remove duplicated votes during the verification process, whether wilful or in error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redkiterail Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just as a point of clarification you are not required to enter an email address so it can't be stored. There are other safeguards in place to identify duplicate voting and remove duplicated votes during the verification process, whether wilful or in error. does that included gateshead libaray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I like 'The Guide'! Even without the words "DON'T PANIC" written in large friendly letters on the cover. It might be the most helpful or intelligible thing anyone has said to me related to RTR polling all day. Though I would add a section to the Jargon buster on railway company abbreviations - one of my favourite choices is listed as SHT/P&M. Now I know (or at least assume) this means Swansea Harbour Trust / Powesland & Mason, but that might not be the same for everyone. It would be nice if the guide also had dates that classes were introduced. I also had issues unselecting something that I accidentally clicked on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Now that I'm done voting, I have a couple of additional comments. Perhaps some of these observations are due to pilot error, but they represent my experience. - Voting for more than 10 items (+) I did like this (-) I probably got a bit carried away, but would purchase ANY of the items I chose were they avaiable RTR (-) This approach washes out the items that I am the MOST interested in - The inconsistencies in descriptions of items have largely been removed - thank you! (+) No more wondering what Diagram A28 means! (+) And if something is still unclear, the guide is there. - The guide is a really great concept (+) Clearly a lot of research went into this - thank you! ... in the spirit of enhancements ... (-) You have to ping pong between web pages a lot (-) Dates of class introduction would be helpful in the guide (-) Some of the more obscure pre-grouping companies could be defined somewhere - I liked the decluttering impact of pre-selecting the sections you want to complete. (+) It is great for decluttering. (-) You miss stuff. eg: I forgot to include the Railcar and DMU section to add a vote for GWR rail cars 1-18 and (-) There's no going back unless you start over There is no review step (+) This is quicker (-) You miss stuff - see above - I couldn't unselect items I accidentally clicked on. (Using IE8) Perhaps this was pilot error, but it wasn't clear to me. (-) This is the single biggest usability issue with the poll (-) Exit and start over is a workaround, but is tedious Clearly a lot of work went into this. Thank you to everyone who worked on it. My advice to anyone completing the poll, don't click on anything you don't intend to vote for. (Perhaps I'm a bit daft but I couldn't find an undo.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thanks for the comments Oz. Although some browsers can behave differently I didn't take the 'misvote' element into account. I will have a look to see if this can be rectified. The alternative is to drop me a "I didn't mean to vote for a ...." email and I can manually address that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hello Ozexpatriate Very many thanks for your clear comments. Much appreciated! When we were experimenting with different ways to run The Poll (and before Andy was involved), we tried having two boxes against each item - one for items 'wanted immediately' and one for items 'wanted - but not so immediately' (or words to that effect). We discounted it as it seemed to over-complicate the polling. Rest assured that your comments will get on the agenda for 2013 improvements. I'm sure we can at least add the dates of introduction for The Guide and add some explanation of abbreviations of company names to The Jargon Buster. Regards Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 It seems anyone using the mobile version of the site may not be able to see the link provided at the top of the page. For anyone affected they can access the static page which accesses the polls by clicking this link - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=ccs&module=pages§ion=pages&folder=&id=9 Personally I'd hate to try and work through the poll on a mobile screen but there you go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It's Monday morning and I'm itching to vote. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well that was pretty simple to do although I couldn't change a miss vote and did I miss an industrial section or wasn't there one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2012 Excellent layout and concept and while I've yet to vote I did have a problem going back & forth between the sections while 'looking around'. I think the whole approach is excellent - the pages and categories are clear, navigation is simple (until I cam across the problem I mentioned) and what I have looked at in the guide is generally good although one or two items are a bit on the vague side (e.g. 'tamping machine'). BTW I'm glad for the sake of the 'net nannies that the Swansea Harbour Trust decided not to merge its title with that of the Swansea Improvement and Tramways Company at the time it took it over certain assets of that company Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 By chance Ive noticed that the Poll has opened. Have been onto the site and cast my votes for a number of items. NOT ALL ARE NER!! A massive thanks to the team for the easy to follow instructions and layout of the poll, but also for their time and effort in putting it together. As a first run goes, its certainly to a very high standard and bound to become the main poll by which the desire of choices is measured. I did wonder about whether the fact that choosing many means that there could be some form of block voting, but think that the choices available and the items selected offer real choice and options for future models. I agree with Ozzy, with regards to his thoughts and no doubt the team will work on this. Will be interesting to see the results. Again, a massive thanks to all involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2012 I've just done my voting. In general it's a nicely done layout, though it's not the way I would have programmed my Wish List system, had I cared to continue working on it. I was careful not to 'mis-vote' so didn't hit any problems there, thanks to the advance warning of others given in this thread. Good to see the option to add items missing, as the Bulleid 64ft Multi-Door stock of 1946(?) wasn't in the list as far as I could tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thanks for the comments Oz. Although some browsers can behave differently I didn't take the 'misvote' element into account. I will have a look to see if this can be rectified. The alternative is to drop me a "I didn't mean to vote for a ...." email and I can manually address that. Having seen the poll now, the simplest thing to do would be to change the 'option buttons' for the votes themselves into 'check boxes'. However, check boxes are generally true/false and the option button values wouldn't normally be, so how that would affect the eventual reporting and what's coded for that I couldn't say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 does that included gateshead libaray You were given a job in a library? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2012 Good to see the option to add items missing, as the Bulleid 64ft Multi-Door stock of 1946(?) wasn't in the list as far as I could tell. Hello Ian We mentioned this stock in The Guide (under Bulleid 59ft Multi-door Stock) but didn't list it as a votable item. Rest assured that if you have noted it in the 'suggestions box', then it will be reviewed for 2013. Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hello Ian We mentioned this stock in The Guide (under Bulleid 59ft Multi-door Stock) but didn't list it as a votable item. Rest assured that if you have noted it in the 'suggestions box', then it will be reviewed for 2013. Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) It was the only thing I missed so put in a request for it at the end. The really stoopid thing is, it (and the 59ft stock), are on my radar as items I'd like to do after the Terrier (which I also voted for). I found myself voting for things I'd like to eventually produce! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2012 the guide is generally good although one or two items are a bit on the vague side (e.g. 'tamping machine'). Hello Stationmaster Many thanks for your kind comments. If anyone can suggest some suitable wording for next year, we'd be glad to hear. Probably best to send that to us at our email address rather than here. ThePollTeam(at)gmail(dot)com Regards Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2012 Duly voted - very easy to navigate and use and all seems to have worked well plus I like the idea of being able to print my evidence . The Guide is an excellent idea and works very well, ideal for my screen as it opened in a second window I could put up alongside the voting area, great stuff. But, as noted by Ozexp, some more info on dates would be both useful and welcome but that is a minor thing measured against the excellent work already put into it. I'm glad we aren't into counting how many we'd buy as that can lead to distortion in my view and I really wonder how valid it might b?. And what a fantastic range of choices, I was very impressed by the level of homework which had gone into that and could think of very little to add (all in 'other items' in my case and horribly parochial). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted March 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well that was pretty simple to do although I couldn't change a miss vote and did I miss an industrial section or wasn't there one. Hello Big Herb We're glad you found the voting easy. There wasn't an 'industrial section' - we had to trade that off against the overall wish for rationalisation. Regards Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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