Timara Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I suppose the Thompson A2s have that "marmite" feel to them. Personally, I'm undecided.... I've recently been working on a pair of these intriguing machines for Gilbert of 'Peterborough North' fame and thought it worthwhile to share my work on these. Hopefully it will inspire others to model one of these very distinctive, if strange/rakish locomotives. The models use Graeme King's most excellent resin castings for the front running plate extension, lower front frames and extensions for smokebox front and firebox rear. Smoke deflectors and cabs (DJH) have been most generously provided by Tony Wright from his spares box, for which I cannot thank him enough. Having tested both models on Peterborough North last week, they're both able to take the heaviest trains asked of them, which I can only put down to the chassis being a good design (cartazzi truck aside). To kick things off, the image below shows how things stand at present - this one being 60515 Sun Stream. The other one is 60523 Sun Castle (photos of that one later, once I've fixed the deflectors on). A head-on image (please excuse the poorly re-assembled nature of it all - hastily done for pics) - they do have an imposing presence about them..... My chosen method for fixing the deflectors can be seen too. A short length of 2mm brass L angle soldered to the inside to give a secure footing on the running plate. The deflectors themselves are a bit tricky to curve at the top due to being rather thick, but a rubber-jawed vice and a 12mm diameter round bar soon solve that issue. A few older work-in-progress images now. To save my going into any depth regarding the overall construction, it's easier for me to direct you to Graeme's own thread on the subject. Most of the important bit starts here: http://www.lner.info...-t2443s900.html. I've modified Graeme's original valve gear measurements in order to do away with having to shorten the eccentric rods. By moving the major parts of the valve gear ahead by 1.5mm and pushing the slidebars 2mm further into the cylinders (file the top and bottom of the original slidebars to do this), it all seems to work much better. The images below should help to explain that better. Couple of chassis images (Sun Castle this time) Hopefully not long before I'll be able to deal with the proper painting side of things. Sun Stream is set to be absolutely filthy (as befits a York loco) and the opposite extreme for Sun Castle, which was fresh from a general overhaul and rather spanking clean! Both locos couldn't be more different really.... More to come anon....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Tim, thats a very interesting peice of modelling that your doing there. I have been following this A2/3 project on the LNER site with interest,but I think with the DJH Cabs these will really look the dogs bits when you are finished with them. Thanks for sharing. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thanks Derek! I largely blame young Tom F for my getting embroiled into the A2/3s, since working on his 'Herringbone' model. When it came for this pair being decided on, I was originally going to use a pair of Margate mk2 A3 cabs, which soon got Tony fishing out a set of spare etches (via Gilbert). I'm rather glad he did! I'll see if I can get 'Sun Castle' ready for primer tomorrow and see how it looks...... Both cabs are very much brass and whitemetal, but very nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Looking rather good Did the cabs come direct from DJH? EDIT: Question answered now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Tim, had I not been an avid fan of Marmite already, you'd've converted me. Fantastic work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thanks Derek! I largely blame young Tom F for my getting embroiled into the A2/3s, Less of the young you cheeky begger, I'm only 6 years your junior! Indeed I suppose you can thank me, going back to September with me on hands and knees begging you to build me one! These ones of Gilbert's do look sublime....and as I operated one of them on Peterborough North last Wednesday, I can say how they smooth they run, as is the motion. Feel free to post Herringbone pics up.....but I have to say Tim...those etched cabs makes them ferrari of 4mm A2/3. Top work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Indeed I suppose you can thank me, going back to September with me on hands and knees begging you to build me one! Indeed I can! It's down to doing Gilbert's pair that yours is getting the valve gear area revised. Feel free to post Herringbone pics up.....but I have to say Tim...those etched cabs makes them ferrari of 4mm A2/3. Top work! I'd have said Rolls Royce rather than Ferrari myself, but I do agree otherwise! I'll sort out pics of yours once I've rebuilt the valve gear and painted the smokebox. Fun n games......! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43179 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Looks like the Bachmann base model is quite modeller friendly there Tim - Not knowing anyting about the prototypes has your conversion made the model longer overall - 'cos in the photos it looks quite a massive thing! tfn Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Hi Jon, Yes, the model's wheelbase is around 10mm longer than the Peppercorn A2 (36' 11" instead of 34' 4"), though will still negotiate 2nd radius curves. These two won't have to go round more than 33" curves, thankfully. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 A quick re-upload after the server changeover as the original got lost. Progress with Sun Castle. Now with a dose of primer and the cab/firebox area painted green. A mix of Phoenix and Railmatch BR loco green here, in an effort to try and match the original Bachmann shade. I've modified the motion bracket to make it look more like that found on an A2/3 - solder makes a wonderful filler! The top edge of the curved part was bent towards the vertical and then filled. Once sanded down, it seems to look the part rather well. The expansion link pivot plate has also been added. A close-up of the cabside after painting. There is a slight difference in shades, but this will soon vanish once I've given the newly painted areas a coat of Klear, ready for lining and numbering. Finally, a head-on shot showing both A2s. Next stop, bufferbeam red! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 As I mentioned on LNER forum, you really have mastered these A2/3s. Those front ends are bang on for the Thompson pacifics in my opinion. Looking forward to seeing the Klear added. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Brilliant bit of modelling, the fact that the source material is so cosmetically disgusting is neither here or there. The way the parts blend in with the A2/3 source material is really inspiring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 If 'the subject matter's aesthetic condition is nether here nor there, why did you choose to mention it? Some of us like these locos and even if you're not keen on them, 'disgusting' smacks of the tabloid. Let's just enjoy what are excellent models without the petty digs please. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 May I explain why I've liked both previous posts? Like Dave I'd doubt that disgusting* was warranted, but had it not for me being drawn into bluex5's post and then back to the photos, I'd have overlooked some features that make these locos at least as quirky as another couple of my faves - the Flying Pig and Crab. Yes they do seem compromised in the running plate and motion zone, but that's a big slice of their appeal that I'd not put my finger on until.... ...I searched the raw material. Here's 60521 passing Craigey: http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=33130 Let's try another flavour - here's a contrasting A2 at Aberdeen, ungainly beauty. 60527 Tanya Arnold anyone? http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=36992 *Disgusting being reserved in my eyes for the F***. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I just wonder why they are "disgusting". Aside from the length of the connecting rods, and overall length, they are no different in terms of components used to the Peppercorn A2s, and in terms of their cylinder/bogie layout, they have some startling similarities with the Stanier Princess locomotives. I do think sincerely that people have been, over the years, conditioned to hate Thompson, and everything in the name of Thompson, without knowing enough about the man himself and why locomotives were built as they were. I wouldn't say the Thompson Pacifics were the most beautiful of locomotives but I find them very handsome, purposeful locomotives. Which, to be frank, pretty much sums up every single Thompson design. Purposeful, they were designed and built in a specific way under mostly horrendous working conditions, during the second world war. Regarding Tim's sterling work, however, no one can deny that Graeme King's resin parts mixed with a few other components and Tim's hard work has produced some magnificent models, which I feel is that bluex5 was getting at, even if I disagree with his sentiments on the prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom F Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Surely a Thompson Pacifics can be looked on as 'A Peppercorn Pacific with some Collett thinking' I personally like the Thompson Pacifics because they look different from Gresley and Peppercorn Pacifics.....surely it would be a boring world if everything looked the same! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I've always had a soft spot for the rebuilt P1s, as they never had the elongated front ends partially hidden by the strangely shaped smoke deflectors and somehow seemed quite dainty in their own, odd, way. However, I vastly prefer the originals! JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I just wonder why they are "disgusting". Aside from the length of the connecting rods, and overall length, they are no different in terms of components used to the Peppercorn A2s, and in terms of their cylinder/bogie layout, they have some startling similarities with the Stanier Princess locomotives. I do think sincerely that people have been, over the years, conditioned to hate Thompson, and everything in the name of Thompson, without knowing enough about the man himself and why locomotives were built as they were. I wouldn't say the Thompson Pacifics were the most beautiful of locomotives but I find them very handsome, purposeful locomotives. Which, to be frank, pretty much sums up every single Thompson design. Purposeful, they were designed and built in a specific way under mostly horrendous working conditions, during the second world war. Regarding Tim's sterling work, however, no one can deny that Graeme King's resin parts mixed with a few other components and Tim's hard work has produced some magnificent models, which I feel is that bluex5 was getting at, even if I disagree with his sentiments on the prototype. I too like the model and I also agree with the sentiments expressed here about Thomson's work. The concept of divided drive and equal length connecting rods go back, as far as British practice is concerned, to the importation of the de Glehn compounds by the GWR. The sole weakness of the concept is the rather weak fastening of the inner cylinders to the frames. This was the bane of the Stars, Castles, Kings and the Princess Royals but was corrected by Stanier in the Coronations. Perhaps the only criticism of Thomson here was that he didn't learn that lesson, but perhaps it wasn't possible to incorporate it into his Pacifics; who knows, I don't! Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I've always had a soft spot for the rebuilt P1s, as they never had the elongated front ends partially hidden by the strangely shaped smoke deflectors and somehow seemed quite dainty in their own, odd, way. However, I vastly prefer the originals! JE I think you mean P2's... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Brilliant bit of modelling, the fact that the source material is so cosmetically disgusting is neither here or there. The way the parts blend in with the A2/3 source material is really inspiring. I'm just wondering if the above refers to the strange mixture of green loco, "milky-bar" bits and grey primer? I found it odd to look at... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 To be honest, I'm fairly indifferent as to the prototype, though the actual modelling of them has been rather satisfying to say the least. I think I would class them as being "different" and leave it there really. I've got an image I'm trying to load up but I'll wait until later to see if it will play ball. Basically, it shows the current status of 60523 - fully lined out and numbered both side, plus the right-facing crest on the tender (not to mention having painted the area left as black along the tender top into green). On Sun Stream I need to get the cab roof soldered into the rest of it and then that can get primer and green paint. It won't need lining as it's going to be utterly caked in it and the lining would merely vanish. Such is the life of a York-based loco that being cleaned was a luxury ill-afforded to them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The loco is looking splendid Tim! The paint work is excellent... Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Sorry if I came across as harsh, I just can't get to grips with the gaping chasm between the cylinders and front bogie on Thompson's Pacifics. Simon is right, the point of my post was to commend Tom on his modelling, which is, frankly, excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I have looked forward to reading Tims thread and what i have to say should not be taken as critisism of his workmanship I feel the problem with 4mm models is typical model clearances above bogie wheels and the lack of detail in what someone earlier described as the 'gaping chasm'. This applies equally to GWR 4-cylinder 4-6-0's and LMS Princess's. The front end of a real Thompson Pacific looks a part of the loco whereas on models it can tend to look a bit naked if there is too much daylight above the bogie and the bogie swing bar can be seen. It is important to minimise the amount of daylight showing above the bogie, plus the bogie wheel splash sheets, large rivet heads and piping are necessities on a model. Some chunky 22thou brass etchings are needed for the frame extentions and a detailed plate frame bogie. Those of us who care have waited a long time for Bachmann to produce a Thompson A2/3 Pacific and so good luck to those modellers who are having a go at doing their own now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 ....the problem with 4mm models is typical model clearances above bogie wheels and the lack of detail in what someone earlier described as the 'gaping chasm'. This applies equally to GWR 4-cylinder 4-6-0's and LMS Princess's. The front end of a real Thompson Pacific looks a part of the loco whereas on models it can tend to look a bit naked if there is too much daylight above the bogie and the bogie swing bar can be seen..... Something perhaps more prevalent in "OO", as opposed to EM and P4? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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