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Mk2 coaches numbering and working patterns


ess1uk
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i've got some Lima Mk2 coaches that i want to find a little bit about.

they are prefixed with a W so presume they would be Western region?

what depot would they have allocated to?

what workings would they mainly be found on and with what motive power?

coaches are as follows:

6x W5449

2x W13493

2x W16084

1 x M34571

1x E6524

so obviously at least 7 will need a renumber

what would be the best numbers to use?

modelling 1987 ish in south west area

thanks for all the answers! :sungum:

Edited by ess1uk
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The Lima Mk2 coaches are a Mk2B FK, a Mk2B TSO and a Mk2B BFK. The original coaches are air braked, dual heat stock.

 

When first built, 1969, they were used on the London to South Wales Inter City trains and the London to Bristol Inter City trains along with Mk2A stock. These were hauled by 47s, Westerns and Falcon. Based at Old Oak Common, Cardiff and Bristol.

 

From 1972 both the Mk2A and Mk2B stock were displaced to the London to Torbay, Plymouth and Penzance trains. These were hauled by 47s, Westerns and (from 1974) Class 50s. Based at Old Oak Common and Laira the Western Region stock remained at these two depots for the rest of their lives.

 

From May 1976 they began to be used on London to Birmingham trains (Class 47, Western and Class 50) and from October 1976 they were displaced from the West of England services onto London to Worcester trains (Class 47 and Class 50) and NE/SW trains (Plymouth to Edinburgh, Cardiff to Newcastle, Penzance to Leeds, and return. Class 45, 46, 47 and 50). Some of the Mk2A stock went to other regions.

 

From autumn 1979 the Mk2B BFK and TSO stock (and remaining Western Region Mk2A stock) was tested with Class 50s on the Waterloo to Exeter route and began to be hauled by Class 33s on that route from around the same time. From May 1980 to 1991/2 these trains were Class 50 hauled apart from some 47/4s being used from 1987 and 47/7s arriving around 1990. Class 47s continued to haul Mk2A and Mk2B stock on these trains until the 159 stock took over in 1993.

 

From the mid 1980s a small number of Mk2B TSOs were reallocated to Trans Pennine services based at Heaton and loco hauled trains from Kings Cross based at Bounds Green. About half of the FK stock was declassified to SK in 1985 and worked on Provincial trains based at Oxley, the remainder were used on mainly NSE boat trains with a few being spare coaches for the Waterloo - Exeter line. The Mk2B BFK stock was withdrawn quite early, some coaches going to Northern Ireland (about 1980) and two coaches being converted for the Royal train in 1977. The last two left (17107 and 17109) were converted for Royal Train use in 1990 and 1987 respectively..

Edited by Flood
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Regarding renumbering you can either use Fox transfers (water slide) or HMRS (pressfix). I find the pressfix transfers better quality with no film but Fox transfers are easier to apply.

 

Number series:

TSO: 5434 to 5497

FK: 13477 to 13513

BFK: 14104 to 14112 (only 14107 and 14109 got renumbered to 17107 and 17109 in 1983)

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cheers Flood

that means they are good for my area i want to model :)

i want to use them with class 50 and 33s for south west area inspired model

so if i pick a number a digit lower then that should be ok?

were they used in sets?

and can i get away with using these together or would i need other stock say a catering vehicle?

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Waterloo - Exeter rakes were 3 TSO, 2 BFK, TSOT, 3 TSO originally. The TSOT was a Mk2C TSO with one window bay by the left hand toilet converted to a counter. This meant there was a red stripe from the door hinge to between the first and second windows at cantrail level instead of the blue stripe. Mk2C stock had different roof vents (and some had different toilet windows) but I wouldn't worry about this too much. The numbers for Western Region TSOT stock with the Mk2B style toilet windows were 6501, 6503, 6512, 6513, 6517, 6521 and 6527. An FK occasionally replaced a BFK in the rake.

 

You could have a NE/SW rake from between 1976 to 1979 which would be:

 

Plymouth - Edinburgh : BFK, 3 TSO, FK, RB, FO, 4 TSO, BG

 

Cardiff - Newcastle : 2 TSO, FK, FO, RB, 4 TSO, BG

 

or Penzance - Leeds : TSO, FO, RB, 2 TSO, 2 BFK, 3 TSO

 

The FO, RB and BG stock would be Mk1. Replica make the FO (but no longer in Blue and Grey), Mainline made an RB and both Replica and Bachmann make a correct length BG.

 

As most rakes tend to be at least 9 coaches with not much 1st class I would organise your rakes as you feel best to give a sense of what ran.

Edited by Flood
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Lima Mark 2's turn up a lot of the time. I would suggest you shouldn't pay more than £5 per coach, i've picked them up for as little as £3. I really like them, they are a cheap rake and like all Lima rolling stock, run nicely. Lima did produce a microbuffet numbered E6524 though it is easy enough to add a red stripe to one of your second class coaches should you wish, just make sure you put the buffet at the correct end!

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Lima did produce a microbuffet numbered E6524 though it is easy enough to add a red stripe to one of your second class coaches should you wish, just make sure you put the buffet at the correct end!

I'll keep a lookout for one at shows

 

Thanks for the help

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That 1 has had them swapped for the BR1 type off the mark 1s.

 

IE you have been done, one way of getting hold of some B4 bogies is to get a lima MK1 that had B4s factory fitted, these are the green (southern) and blood and custard(ish) ones, swap the bogies over then sell the mark1 (now with BR1 bogies) on again, you should only end up a couple of quid out of pocket.

Edited by royaloak
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cheers royaloak

i'd have never realised except that jonathan452 pointed it out to me

i just wanted a second opinion knowing nothing about coach bogies

that will teach me to buy second hand!

the mk1 swap sounds like a plan, and i can give Dad the mk1 :)

thanks guys

Edited by ess1uk
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did the Lima coaches come with the correct B4 bogies??

or did they put on the wrong BR1 type?

or did i just get one that has been modified?

post-11924-0-33558300-1325710004.jpg

They did come with the B4 bogies. As per my message I sent you earlier I think someone did a 'bogie swap' before you aquired the offending TSO. Until recently I had some spare Lima B4 bogies, but unfortunately they are no longer in my possesion having gone to the MRC's second hand stall at Ally Pally.

Edited by jonathan452
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it's not that i didn't believe you, i just have no clue what different types of bogies look like

as i need to look at my as new boxed version to compare it with the offending article to know what to look out for in future i was just asking for advice.

when i get home from my work induced stay away i'll check.

many thanks for being so eagle eyed though and pointing it out to me.

every day a school day :)

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Think I may have a couple of spare Lima B4s in the garage, they're yours if I have.

 

Will let you know as soon as I'm able to switch off this magnet that's pulling me firmly onto the settee.

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One other point about bogies. The Lima B4 bogies are the wrong way round, see the photos below:

 

Lima Mk2B

post-7112-0-10622000-1325722750.jpg

 

Airfix Mk2D

post-7112-0-25985700-1325722759.jpg

 

By the way. I've got seven Lima Mk2B TSO coaches, boxed, which I don't use anymore. P.m me if you are interested.

Edited by Flood
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I took a number of pictures in the 1980s of the Waterloo - Exeter services,

here are a few which show the coaches to better advantage,

though I seldom took pictures specifically of coaching stock.

These generally confirm the booked formation as per Floods post earlier,

though a couple of the earlier shots are short formed, or still have the odd Mk1 in the formation.

 

post-7081-0-03990100-1325774115_thumb.jpg

33008 runs in to Exeter Central with the 11.10 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids

the 2nd vehicle at least is a Mk1, 11/3/83

 

post-7081-0-11502600-1325774132_thumb.jpg

50041 arrives at Exeter St.Davids with the 06.32 from Salisbury

this set is formed of 8 vehicles, with 2 Mk1s, 7/11/83

 

post-7081-0-33935800-1325774157_thumb.jpg

50014 at Exeter Central with the 08.11 from St Davids to Waterloo 17/7/85

 

post-7081-0-36166800-1325774184_thumb.jpg

50048 arrives at Central on the same day with the 06.32 from Salisbury, 17/7/85

 

post-7081-0-96503100-1325774213_thumb.jpg

Salisbury, 50034 arrives on the 12.20 from Exeter St. Davids 17/7/85

 

post-7081-0-02577000-1325774235.jpg

50042 departs Salisbury with a service for Waterloo, 16/6/86

 

cheers

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

Slightly off topic from working patterns but on topic for Lima Mk2s - is there an easy way to swap the extra large couplings for something smaller and at the right height for current Bachmann / Hornby locos.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

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  • 2 years later...

Sorry to bump an old thread, but the beginning of one of my questions is in here! I am looking for a Mk2B FK (or a declassified SK) in Regional Railways livery. Flood mentions some were transferred to Provincial. Did any make it into the RR livery?

 

Thanks!

Edited by sub39h
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