Why 3mm/ft a short FAQ about 3mm/ft.

[whart57]

15 minutes ago, Silverfox17 said:

.....   but please don't say I cannot use TT and 3mm in the same breadth as there is no law against it as far as I know. 

 

I think you are trying to create an argument where none exists. All I am saying is that in commercial transactions it is better to be accurate rather than use terms that can confuse.

[whart57]

I give up. I have been hearing this nonsense for ten years - at least - and it simply does not equate to my own experiences in the 3mm Society. As Chairman I even tried to find out who this "someone" was and I drew a blank.

 

My inclination is to walk away from this spat, except that I feel I owe it to the 3mm Society to ask you that you either substantiate your allegations with things like names and places or that you withdraw your remarks. You are casting a slur on a Society of some 500 members by suggesting they are some form of cult when the truth is very far from that.

[Grovenor]

You don't have to look far back in this topic to find the post strongly objecting to the use of TT. Its on page 2.

[whart57]

You might notice that the writer of that piece has only posted four times and the last eight years ago. And that it didn't get any support.

[whart57]

OK, so we know who it was, and as you point out you got a lot of support from Committee members and others with standing in the Society. So why do you keep bringing this up? Why, when you had others going in to bat for you do you make it seem on here that you are ploughing a lonely farrow and are put upon for it.

[whart57]

I give up

[NCB]

Whatever, this section of RMweb is about 3mm/ft scale, and this pinned thread is about the attractions of 3mm/ft. I hope we can all agree on that.

 

A question has been raised about the role of the 3mm Society in all this. Let's be clear; the 3mm Society is a scale society pure and simple. It supports anything to do with 3mm/ft. It isn't a "finescale" society, or a Triang TT society, a 12mm gauge society or a 14.2mm society. It supports anything railway related in 3mm/ft scale. It has operations covering second hand Triang, Triang spares, second hand non-Triang (in any gauge), and develops products and tools supporting a wide range of 3mm/ft needs, such as 12mm, 13.5mm and 14.2mm track bases, track chairs, as well as locomotive, coach and wagon kits and related products.

 

Views of individual Society members are irrelevant to this. Most fully support the Society as outlined above. A few may only be keen on whatever is relevant to their own particular interests. And may even be disparaging of others. That doesn't reflect what the Society is and what it aims to do.

 

Nigel

[whart57]

It is now 55 years since Triang stopped producing its TT range. That means that there is not much that can be done beyond supporting Triang beyond second hand sales and spares. When someone comes up with a suggestion that is feasible then it is taken up. The decision to source neodymium magnets as replacements for aged Triang ones took about thirty seconds to get through Committee. Using 3D printing to replace broken Triang plastic parts has been done, but the two restraints are limited numbers able to produce the CAD drawings and not many suggestions being put forward either.

 

I don't have up to date figures for second hand sales, but a few years back it was the non-Triang second hand that was where the money from members was going. Storing old Triang is a major issue for the second hand sales team because most of it no longer shifts.

 

Few people realise that 3mm scale has six sets of track and wheel standards. There are three sets for 12mm gauge alone. The Society has never, as other scale societies have, consolidated onto a single standard. Standards evolved and were then codified. Wheel profiles were never defined, it was left to manufacturers to do their own thing. Where there is only a single manufacturer - as with the finescale wheels for 14.2mm gauge - that manufacturer's profile, or more accurately, its form tool, becomes the de facto standard. Where there were many manufacturers over the years, as with the wheels for 12mm gauge from Hardy, Keen-Maygib, Sharman, Romford and others, defining a compromise standard that applied to all was a task a Technical Committee took years over. And they could not find a way of incorporating Triang's profile into that standard, which is why there are always problems getting Triang and later 12mm gauge stuff to run reliably on the same layout.

 

Now this is not just an issue for the Society, it exists elsewhere. The wheels Triang put under their OO stuff in 1965 are nothing like the ones Hornby use today. My local club has just built a test track for club nights and they needed to put in a circuit of Super 4 track to run the old stuff on. Not all the first generation N gauge stuff runs on the club's N gauge layout. Now you can propose that the 3mm Society commit to supporting the Triang wheel and track standards with new wheels and track, but many would consider that a retrograde step. Every mainstream manufacturer in 2mm and 4mm scales thinks going back to a 1960s standard is retrograde as well.

 

Treat Triang for what it is, a noble part of heritage. Much of the stuff you do is good, but it does recall the early years. As you probably know, the early editions of Mixed Traffic contain many articles on converting Triang into something else. That's how things were done then, but it can't be how things are done now. Except as a homage to earlier times.

[Marcoblanco]

Hi just a passing interest in 3mm scale and as a challenge for myself and a mate I was wondering what the scope is to produce a decent 08 shunter in 3mm. 

 

decent body? - I hear a very good printed body is available from someone.

 

chassis and wheels possibilities?

 

I cant find anything on searches so just wondered if anyone can point me in the right direction ..

 

I thank anyone who can answer, ..

 

[rodshaw]

Worsley Works apparently do an etched cab, body and chassis.

[Golden Fleece 30]

16 hours ago, Marcoblanco said:

Hi just a passing interest in 3mm scale and as a challenge for myself and a mate I was wondering what the scope is to produce a decent 08 shunter in 3mm. 

 

decent body? - I hear a very good printed body is available from someone.

 

chassis and wheels possibilities?

 

I cant find anything on searches so just wondered if anyone can point me in the right direction ..

 

I thank anyone who can answer, ..

 

Here is my 08 from Lincoln-Locos, a lovely 3D printed body.  I am getting my own chassis etched as I prefer a more solid constructional one as opposed to flimsy thin ones made by others, but that is my preference.  If it is satisfactory then I may have a few spare ones available.  I am hoping my etch comes in the next week or two.

 

https://lincoln-loco.co.uk/

 

Garry

[whart57]

I copied the question over to the 3mm Society's egroup and the replies coming back suggest the Seeney body (https://lincoln-loco.co.uk) with a Worsley Works etched chassis (http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/)

 

Choice of wheels depends on choice of gauge and standard. Tiptoeing carefully around this minefield I would suggest 3mm Society SQ wheels for 12mm gauge, available to Society members but also I believe through 3SMR (https://www.3smr.co.uk) who also do other wheels of that standard as well. Extended axles are available but have to be specified at time of order.

 

Fine scale wheels for 14.2mm gauge are available for 3mm Society members but I do not think there is any external supplier of these for non-members.

 

Motor and gears are generally the smallest 4mm scale combos, aim for a 40:1 reduction for a shunter.

 

Couplings are a personal thing but for those who don't like the old Triang girder across the front the choice generally comes down to B&B or DG couplings both of which have 3mm scale varieties.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Regarding the wheels, the ones in the photo I am using are Romford/Markits ones with their extended Romford axles which I will be able to screw the return cranks on to get the quartering right before soldering. 

 

Garry

[whart57]

An update to this. Many of those within the 3mm Society will know of Geoff Helliwell and his N-RTR (nearly ready to run) project which matches Lenny Seeney bodies to chassis designed and built by Geoff. Geoff is finishing off the four locos he has dealt with so far and his next project will be the 08. His target is to have the first batch completed by the end of the year. The chassis will be for 12mm, 14.2mm and 13.5mm gauge, the latter two only by special order.

[Geoff 3mm]

Just to add to Whart57's comment:  All my nearly RTR (N-RTR) locos require parts from the 3mm Society so are as a consequence only available to Society members.  The end of year target for a batch of 08s is an ambitious one but better to miss a hard target!

 

As others have commented, Worsley Works already do an etched kit and it is very good; a pic of mine unpainted is attached.  Not a beginners kit and tricky if you don't have a resistance soldering iron.  Worsley Works also sell just the chassis to put under a Triang body and this makes up into quite a convincing model though with a number of errors (Width of the bonnet being the most obvious). 

 

I already have my print of Lenny's latest offering and it is first class. Every bit as good as his Class 03 that I am using for my current project.  You can find the full range of Lenny's products  here...   https://lincoln-loco.co.uk/

 

The third picture shows the two mechanism designs I am using for my N-RTR models. They both use the N20 motor/gearbox and crown-wheel drive that I described in RM April 2018.

 

Geoff

[Robert Shrives]

Wow to the pic of the 08 - a brilliantly sharp piece of kit building and shows the value of a resistance soldering kit! 

If I got to 50% of that standard ! 

3d print bodies do help!!  I have just got the class 58 and it is really very good.

 

Robert  

[Geoff 3mm]

Thanks Robert.  Using 145 degree solder also makes a big difference. I also sand blasted it which gives a nice matt finish for the photo-shoot!  It is now painted and weathered and just needs glazing.

Geoff

[bradfordbuffer]

21 hours ago, Geoff 3mm said:

Just to add to Whart57's comment:  All my nearly RTR (N-RTR) locos require parts from the 3mm Society so are as a consequence only available to Society members.  The end of year target for a batch of 08s is an ambitious one but better to miss a hard target!

 

As others have commented, Worsley Works already do an etched kit and it is very good; a pic of mine unpainted is attached.  Not a beginners kit and tricky if you don't have a resistance soldering iron.  Worsley Works also sell just the chassis to put under a Triang body and this makes up into quite a convincing model though with a number of errors (Width of the bonnet being the most obvious). 

 

I already have my print of Lenny's latest offering and it is first class. Every bit as good as his Class 03 that I am using for my current project.  You can find the full range of Lenny's products  here...   https://lincoln-loco.co.uk/

 

The third picture shows the two mechanism designs I am using for my N-RTR models. They both use the N20 motor/gearbox and crown-wheel drive that I described in RM April 2018.

 

Geoff

08 looks stunning..

I'll have 3 x 03 and 4x 08 chassis in 14.2 please (can I have extra long wires from pickups to motor a want to play with dcc. Tar)...moving the 3mm society in the right direction

[Geoff 3mm]

Sorry Bradfordbuffer but the 03 is sold out already but, in any case, was always a 12mm only project because of the unavailability of self-quartering 14.2 wheels. The body prints are available from Lenny at LincolnLocos and I think Worsley Works does a chassis etch.  Round axle finescale wheels are available  and there is a service to 'square the centres' and supply of suitable 14.2 axles available to Society members. 

 

The 08 is a long way off but if you contact me via the email address in the Jan newsletter I will put you on the list for the 08.  I think it only fair that I limit you to two though.

 

Geoff

[bradfordbuffer]

3 hours ago, Geoff 3mm said:

Sorry Bradfordbuffer but the 03 is sold out already but, in any case, was always a 12mm only project because of the unavailability of self-quartering 14.2 wheels. The body prints are available from Lenny at LincolnLocos and I think Worsley Works does a chassis etch.  Round axle finescale wheels are available  and there is a service to 'square the centres' and supply of suitable 14.2 axles available to Society members. 

 

The 08 is a long way off but if you contact me via the email address in the Jan newsletter I will put you on the list for the 08.  I think it only fair that I limit you to two though.

 

Geoff

Ok will do..

Is 08 a limited run?

Are you defo doing it in 14.2?

[Geoff 3mm]

I am just a one man band so there is very much a limit to what I can produce and it is easy to under estimate how much work is involved. The 08 project is at a very early stage but the plan is to produce a batch of twenty. Once this has been achieved, there may be scope for a few more but it will depend on what else I want to do and how much time/energy I have! The Society Committee are encouraging me to do all three gauges but, since I have yet to even measure the body, I cannot be certain at this stage exactly what is possible.

[bradfordbuffer]

2 minutes ago, Geoff 3mm said:

I am just a one man band so there is very much a limit to what I can produce and it is easy to under estimate how much work is involved. The 08 project is at a very early stage but the plan is to produce a batch of twenty. Once this has been achieved, there may be scope for a few more but it will depend on what else I want to do and how much time/energy I have! The Society Committee are encouraging me to do all three gauges but, since I have yet to even measure the body, I cannot be certain at this stage exactly what is possible.

Would you like a loan of a 08 body?

[Geoff 3mm]

Thanks but I already have one. It is sitting there waiting for me to finish the 03 and the other three locos project!

[bradfordbuffer]

6 minutes ago, Geoff 3mm said:

Thanks but I already have one. It is sitting there waiting for me to finish the 03 and the other three locos project!

No problems...

Good to know th 08 will be done...Will the 12mm 03 be rerun! 

[Geoff 3mm]

There may be a few more at some stage but it won't be for quite a while. It will all depend on other interests, commitments time, etches and components. If you want an 03 in 14.2 and have the skills to build a chassis, why not buy one of the Lincoln locos prints and get a chassis kit from Worsley Works?