Coach bogie Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Or you could spend some more money and get these , http://www.cometmode...tpic.php/3/1097 , plus you get nice whistle shields too . I did not realise Comet made them. I kept one from a Pro-scale etch to use as a pattern and have been making them ever since. Not worth the time for sake of a few pounds. I shall add them to my shopping list. Thanks for the information. MIke Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 Well what an ubelievably hard job.I threaded all the knobs on the handrail but messed up around the smokebox door ( Twice ) so i left off the smoke box door knob and fitted all the rest, then carefully inserted the nickle wire into the knobs both sides at the same time which gave me a bit more leverage around the front.Not brilliant i know but its the best i could do with my mini pliers, would try the patience of an angel and i`m not one Seems a shame to cover it in primer. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Another bloody Trial, just making small adjustment to the handrail and it snapped, back to the drawing board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 These 'one piece over the smokebox' rails can be very tricky. The prototype generally avoids the problem by making them in three pieces - one for each side and one for the smokebox, with the joint concealed in the front side stanchions, and this can work in ) Gauge as well, though probably not in any smaller scale My own preference is for making the handrails out of brass. I like to get the stanchions along the sides in first (slide a bit of wire through them to make sure they're all in line and level on both sides), then run the middle of the brass with through a match flame to soften it, bend it carefully to shape (I look for a suitably-sized coin to act as a tool here) then slide the front stanchion(s) on and feed the whole assembly through the stanchions on the side, trimming the wire to length as required. With care and luck it can be done in one go; the horribly enlarged photo shows one just about to be pushed gently home! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Thanks John I may try that next time silver nickle is far to pliable just a slight twitch and it`s out of shape again, working on it as we speak. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Had withdrawal over weekend latest update, getting there though put top coat on on sunday but you will have to wait to see finished article. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted April 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2012 That looks very presentable John , well done for getting this far , all it needs now is the chassis painting . Any thoughts on the next project ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted April 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2012 Oh! sir, sir! can I guess? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted April 23, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2012 Oh! sir, sir! can I guess? Only if you guess the same as me . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 That looks very presentable John , well done for getting this far , all it needs now is the chassis painting . Any thoughts on the next project ? Mike, what do you mean about painting the chassis? Must admit it does look odd with the brass. Edit: Aaarh, just looked at the pics on page 2 please dont tell me i have to strip it AGAIN Please. Oh! sir, sir! can I guess? Only if you guess the same as me . Glad i could trust you both here she is: http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1436.l2649 http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1439.l2649 Just waiting for the chassis to arrive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 Oh ye Gods above, It seems i will have to dissasemble the wheels, but i will do it with the coupling rods, connecting rods, and crossheads all in place, just to paint the chassis. This has been a massive learning curve, will i make the same mistakes on the A3 one asks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted April 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 26, 2012 Oh ye Gods above, It seems i will have to dissasemble the wheels, but i will do it with the coupling rods, connecting rods, and crossbars all in place, just to paint the chassis. This has been a massive learning curve, will i make the same mistakes on the A3 one asks. No John , you will find a whole new bunch of mistakes to make , been there , got the T-shirt . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 Small Bump, I have stripped down the chassis AGAIN and painted, Brass not as easy as metal though, took a while.( see how it comes out ) now i have to re assemble AGAIN and put on final coat of paint. Mike ( Sidecar ) thanks for the presentable you keep me going. I wont post anymore pics until its had next coat of paint, so whatch this space John. PS its my own interpretation paint wise, i hav'nt followed any pics or anything, just painted bits i thought looked ok, it will be different but the whole thing has been a project from the start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Well here she is, must admit it looks better in the flesh but as stated before cameras can be cruel, hope you like, i didnt follow any painting rules just my own interpretation, all done by hand with a relatively small sable brush. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieb Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 John You've done a good job there.Well worth all the trials and tribulations.It's easy to see why people are gravitating more and more to RTR as these old whitemetal kits require so much work (and expense).As you found out to your cost, K's idea of a complete kit is far short of the ideal-how much did it all cost you in the end?.Good luck with the next one (and get some name and numberplates for the Grange!) Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 John You've done a good job there.Well worth all the trials and tribulations.It's easy to see why people are gravitating more and more to RTR as these old whitemetal kits require so much work (and expense).As you found out to your cost, K's idea of a complete kit is far short of the ideal-how much did it all cost you in the end?.Good luck with the next one (and get some name and numberplates for the Grange!) Jamie John, its coming on well. As Jamie said its a very steep learning curve building your first loco, but it gets much easier every time as you can forsee the problems as they come up. Also costs can run away a bit, and in future these again can be reduced. With your next kit, Wills are a bit better and parts can be brought from Southeastern Finecast, I would suggese you send a large self addressed and stamped letter to Dave at Southeastern Finecast for the latest parts list, as it may have been updated and have a couple of extra bits. Also with buying a chassis and wheels s/h you have saved quite a few bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 John K's idea of a complete kit is far short of the ideal-how much did it all cost you in the end?. Jamie A bit harsh. Maybe by today's standards but this is a kit that is not far short of fifty years old, a kit that has been in existence longer than the prototype and produced at a time when three rail was still seen as acceptable by some modellers. The kits could and many did, be built with all the parts enclosed. I cut my teeth on K's. I am currently buildng a K's Fowler 2-6-2 for a friend. Would I have built it as the kit in the 1970's when I started - probably -I have several built as the kit still running. Am I building it as the kit today - no chance, the same way as I would not drive a mk II cortina when I can have the benefits of a modern car. It has full Romford wheels, Mashima motor with Comet two stage gear box. Added detail such as brake gear from Mainly Train etches, lamp brackets, extra pipework. Credit where credit is due to K's, they were the cutting edge of the time. Their demise nearly thirty years ago is evidence that they did not improve with the times, whereas Wills/Souh East Finecast have.The K's kit, What was the total cost? For a true cost comparison, in modified/updated form, the K's Grange is still available with new chassis and Romford Wheels (but no motor) from Nucast under the Autocom label and at a £150+ price to match but only for a few more weeks as Autocom will cease trading in June.Did John's build cost this much? I doubt it K's are from a different era, and an accurate comparison to todays offerings is difficult if not impossible.Comparison to Dublo Castle and Triang Halls is more reasonable as that is what the competition was at the time (and remember Wills kits from the time were designed to run with these rtr manufacturers chassis and did not come with frames,wheels and motor) MIke Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 John K's idea of a complete kit is far short of the ideal-how much did it all cost you in the end?. Jamie A bit harsh. Maybe by today's standards but this is a kit that is not far short of fifty years old, a kit that has been in existence longer than the prototype and produced at a time when three rail was still seen as acceptable by some modellers. The kits could and many did, be built with all the parts enclosed. I cut my teeth on K's. I am currently buildng a K's Fowler 2-6-2 for a friend. Would I have built it as the kit in the 1970's when I started - probably -I have several built as the kit still running. Am I building it as the kit today - no chance, the same way as I would not drive a mk II cortina when I can have the benefits of a modern car. It has full Romford wheels, Mashima motor with Comet two stage gear box. Added detail such as brake gear from Mainly Train etches, lamp brackets, extra pipework. Credit where credit is due to K's, they were the cutting edge of the time. Their demise nearly thirty years ago is evidence that they did not improve with the times, whereas Wills/Souh East Finecast have.The K's kit, What was the total cost? For a true cost comparison, in modified/updated form, the K's Grange is still available with new chassis and Romford Wheels (but no motor) from Nucast under the Autocom label and at a £150+ price to match but only for a few more weeks as Autocom will cease trading in June.Did John's build cost this much? I doubt it K's are from a different era, and an accurate comparison to todays offerings is difficult if not impossible.Comparison to Dublo Castle and Triang Halls is more reasonable as that is what the competition was at the time (and remember Wills kits from the time were designed to run with these rtr manufacturers chassis and did not come with frames,wheels and motor) MIke Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 John , K's idea of a complete kit is far short of the ideal.Jamie Jamie If you were commenting on the NuCast version based on whats available now then fair comment, but not on a second hand kit that was made in the 80's The motor in its day was a try to step forward against what was available then. as were the attempt on self quartering wheels with plastic spokes, The bigest problems with these kits was to provide a complete kit at a low cost, corners were cut. But by doing this it allowed those who had not too much money to be able to get on the kit built loco ladder, and have a loco not provided by the trade. I could not afford Will kits owing to the extra cost of wheels, motor and gears. When the first kits came out in the 60 they were a breath of fresh air, as they developed the kits introduced new ideas, motor with a built in motor mount, plastic centered wheels. Others have taken on these ideas and improved them. Who now provides a range of complete loco kits at a low price?. There are modellers who enjoy building kits, these kits still provide a great building experance. They can make good models in their own right, many 00 & EM models running with all K's components except for perhapps a change wof wheels (EM) or they do lend themselves to super detailing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 My persaonal opinion is that the K is a perfect start ( for me ) its bloody difficult but you have to take your time with everything, cleaning the flash nibbling bits off here and there but what a learning curve, i have learnt a lot ( thanks to the support from everyone ) I will say i did nearly throw it out the window on numerous occasions and the wife wasnt best pleased with my language, the last straw on saturday i completed the chassis and was all running so i dabbed a bit of locktite on the long 8ba nut at rear, when i tested again one of the splashers was rubbing i dont know why, but it took me two hours to get the sodding nut off. I have bought Nuts, screws, motor, gears, coupling rods, connecting rods, prob set me back about circa £ 70.00 plus the kit ive prob spent + £ 130.00 would i do it again YES. ( new thread coming the A3 ) PS the Tools set me back a lot more. You can critisize if you like i wont be upset its not finished i have transfers to put on and a clear coat which will dampen down the gloss effect ( I hope ) It does look better in the flesh though. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieb Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I certainly don't think it's a harsh comment-no offence was meant,but having gone back through the thread,John has spent a lot more on upgrade parts than the kit cost.New wheels, motor, gearbox and sundry other parts must have added at least £70 to the initial cost of the kit (which was I believe £35).Bearing in mind Johns status as a first-time builder,I imagine he thought that a complete kit would be just that, and not require twice as much again spent on it to make a presentable model.Not to mention,the expense of suitable tools, although obviously these will be reused. I've got no beef with K's kits,as others have said,there used to be little other choice if you wanted anything the RTR boys didn't make,but the fact is that a lot of the parts provided,were adequate but nothing more.Sure,the motors could be made to work,the wheels may be OK,but there were and still are better options.This is where Wills/SEF had the advantage as you bought your own wheels motors and gears to suit your budget,or used an RTR chassis. The example of a current Nucast Grange for £150,then needing a motor/gearbox, as well as paint transfers and plates,takes the cost up to the £200 mark.And you still have to build it!Alternatively ,a Hornby Grange can be had for less than half that (I got mine for £30 off Ebay,but that was ridiculously cheap),and in all honesty looks better than most kit builders can achieve.The key role that whitemetal kits fulfill nowadays is providing the locos that the RTR boys don't do.I know there is a percentage of modellers who like the challenge of a kit (myself included),but if I'm going to spend £150 on a model loco that is already available RTR, I wouldn't start with a 50 year old whitemetal kit,seeing how much the hobby has evolved over the last few years Anyway,I don't want to get into the whole kits vs RTR argument,just like to say that John has done an excellent job and hope he will do a similar write-up of his next attempt,whatever it may be. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper John Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 I know what your saying Jamie, for me it was just the challenge really and i now want to build another, you are quite right in what you said above and i can only agree with your sentiments. PS any idea where i can get Grange nameplate from searched ' etched' on t'net but its a bit of a minefield. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted April 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 30, 2012 Might I suggest 247 Developments http://www.247developments.co.uk/ex_gwr_names.html#grange They also do the cabside number plates too No connection etc etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieb Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I'll second 247 Devs,also Guilplates (no web site,phone no only) 01483 565980/563156 (I've got a Guilplates catalogue,if there's a particular one you're after,let me know and I'll check if they do it) and ModelMaster (but these look a bit pricey tbh) http://www.modelmasterdecals.com/GW_Grange460.php Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 My persaonal opinion is that the K is a perfect start ( for me ) i have learnt a lot ( thanks to the support from everyone ) I have bought Nuts, screws, motor, gears, coupling rods, connecting rods, prob set me back about circa £ 70.00 plus the kit ive prob spent + £ 130.00 would i do it again YES. ( new thread coming the A3 ) It does look better in the flesh though. John. I have been chatting to John a lot and I know that he won't mind me saying these things. Firstly as a first loco and new to railway modelling, I think we can all say he has made a better job than many of us did with our first loco. Life would have been so much easier had he chosen a small 0-6-0 tank loco, but John likes big tender locos and its stupid to build something you don't like. Quite a lot of that £70 was spent on parts that broke and a more experienced modeller would have been able to use many of the parts he replaced. Secondly the NuCast kit would have still been dearer. More importantly the experience and skills John's gained in building it cannot be sumed up in pounds, shillings and pence. John's a modeller (builder) not (yet) someone who runs trains, so the Hornby model would not satisfy the pleasure he gets from building models. Lastly John's ended up with a model with better parts than a standard K's kit. Don't forget the money he has saved by staying in all these evenings building rather than going down the pub. Jamieb, I can see where you are coming from and you have made very valid points, especially for those who run trains. But there are very sad people like me who don't own RTR stock, who's pleasure is in the building of a model even if it has cost twice as much as a RTR one and has less detail. When its finished and we see it run we get on with the next one John after the A3 whats next on the list? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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