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Storing stock in temperature extremes


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I`m not sure about any 'numbers'.......but, I might also give consideration to condensation, if stock is stored 'cold' and then subsequently brought into anywhere warm; this can often promote rapid rusting of steel components and moisture-related issues for other materials.

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There was recently a thread about Farish gears splitting (yes, that old bug bear rearing its head again) and a poster mentioned that they had cured the problem by not storing their locos in the extreme temperatures of the garage.

 

I bought my stock boxes in a couple of weeks ago after reading it. Had a re-organisation of the wardrobe, took some clothes down to the charity clothing bank, and now my stock sits in there. Probably also more secure too from Mr Burglar, now I think about it.

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I don't think it matters how low the temperature goes as long as you bring the items back to a normal temperature carefully. The big difficulty that I have had is with a layout in a poorly insulated loft. The stock in boxes didn't suffer any obvious effects but items I took down to work on were covered in a fine layer of condensation. The track showed the worst effects, it shrank so much that rails popped out of the joiners and strained solder connections. Of course the loft also produced the opposite effect in the summer when the track expanded and buckled. I gave up on using the loft after that. If I ever have to use a loft or a shed again I will ensure that it has at least 4" of insulation but not under the layout. A loft needs the insulation on the roof itself. Wooden sheds with a layer of insulation and an inner skin offer reasonable protection and a small tubular oil filled electric heater can keep the frost off at a low cost.

While on about condensation I have recently got some models out of a cupboard under the stairs to find them covered in condensation. I didn't realise that there was poor ventilation and the boxes were tightly packed. I have got the boxes out and warmed them up very slowly. I try to put some silicon dessicant bags into each box to reduce the potential moisture as well.

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If you can help it, I wouldn't risk it. I've been in my wooden garden shed recently and there was a thin layer frost, or condensation, all frozen on the inside of my shed roof. Some it had thawed into tiny droplets that looked as if they might be ready for dripping onto the floor.

The concrete hut my rabbits (and their hutches) live in, is in a slightly worse state than the shed, for being damp at the moment. The sooner winter is over, the better !! (damp isn't good for rabbits either)

I was building my railway in the garden shed, but was afraid of the scenery soaking up moisture, so I've brought it indoors for the time being - even though it had a plastic cover on top of it.

My garden shed roof, has a good layer of roofing sheet on, so I really can't understand how it has become so wet inside at the moment, it's frustrating and annoying.

I don't have any heating in there, but I might consider looking into that, before next winter arrives.

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All my OO, RTR and kit builds, lives in an unheated outbuilding, and has done for the past 11 years with no trouble. Came through that little cold snap of 2010/11, and the warmth of the summer of 2003 with no problems. One of my locos sat under a waterfall for near a week when the old roof covering failed while we were away over Christmas, and still works fine. (That leak apart it does stay dry, no condensation.) I operate the layout every day I am home, maybe that helps? All wrapped up in woollies today, just like trainspotting in the winter...

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I would agree, the better the insulation the more protection you get, whether it's the loft or the shed

[and in the loft it needs to be the roof, not the floor, you insulate].

A small heater, preferably thermostatically controlled, to keep the temp. well above freezing point

should keep things reasonably under control. Also some ventilation is important, all three things

should stop any condensation forming [although bags of silica stuff can't hurt!]

 

Cheers, Jeff

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Guest stuartp

If you can help it, I wouldn't risk it. I've been in my wooden garden shed recently and there was a thin layer frost, or condensation, all frozen on the inside of my shed roof. Some it had thawed into tiny droplets that looked as if they might be ready for dripping onto the floor.

 

Same problem here, concrete sectional garage with a cement sheet roof (it's not asbestos, or at least it shouldn't be as it's only about 10 years old), and water all over the inside of the roof. It isn't leaking, it's just condensation from damp air as all the different bits of the garage warm up as the sun gets on them. It's only been a problem the last couple of nights when it's been below freezing here. There's ventilation around the roof (i.e. there's a gap where the soffit doesn't quite sit flush) but no through flow of air as such. The train set is going in there eventually, it will be getting some serious insulation first. I was looking on some classic car forums yesterday and they're having the same problems.

 

Apart from damp, the only problem I've had storing stock in a cold garage is where brass sides had been superglued to a plastic coach. They contract at different rates, one side cracked the glued bond and detached, the other rippled.

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Thanks for the replies. I'm currently looking for cheap carpet tiles to go on the underside of my shed roof, and once mains electricity arrives out there with a little more permanence than an extension cord I'll have a thermostatically controlled heater out there too. The walls are very well insulated, but the roof was formerly insulated with tin foil and bubble wrap. Unfortunately the tin foil has showed some signs of attracting condensation (slight sheen of damp on its surface at times) but nothing approaching dripping and therefore had to be removed. I do keep as little stock as possible out there (from a security point of view more than anything else) but due to the amounts that I have, some has inevitably taken up residence because I have nowhere else to store it.

 

Thanks for the replies.

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Jenny, I've found that a cheap greenhouse frost heater works wonders in my shed. Basically you set the temp and forget it. I've got an insulated 12' by 24' wooden shed and on the 1kw setting it will keep the frost away nicely even at -8c. On full it will warm things up to around 18c above the outside temp in about 90 mins or less.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?q=greenhouse+heater&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1560&bih=817&wrapid=tlif132691069677310&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5139749048308393745&sa=X&ei=5gwXT7mUOsenhAfdgOmHAw&ved=0CKEBEPMCMAA#

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In my experience heat is worse than cold - assuming both are DRY, as humidity (both hot & cold) has a whole different set of problems.

 

Before I started on my O gauge garage layout my Weaver O gauge locos were stored in the loft for a few years. Wnen I came to run them, the main nylon gear had split on most of them, caused by the metal shaft expanding. Fortunately weaver have an excellent spares dept and in a couple of weeks new gears arrived by airmail and all were repaired. They told me not to store stock in hot lofts.

 

Brit15

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Hi, what about putting those moisture absorbtion sachets like you get in electronic component boxes in our stock boxes.

When we moved and all our stuff was about to be packed in a sea container the owner of the removals company suggested putting a small cloth bag full of rice in every box containing electronics or paper. Worked like a charm. I missed one box of magazines and they were quite damp. Even today anything like books or trains kept in the loft have their own little rice bag to keep them company.
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When we moved and all our stuff was about to be packed in a sea container the owner of the removals company suggested putting a small cloth bag full of rice in every box containing electronics or paper. Worked like a charm. I missed one box of magazines and they were quite damp. Even today anything like books or trains kept in the loft have their own little rice bag to keep them company.

 

Just dont let the mice see the rice!

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I think that if you can you make sure all of the above suggestions are put in place,

good insulation, ventilation, heating [thermostatically controlled] and maybe even

humidity control you will not only protect your stock but also your layout [and all

the hard work that has gone into building it and adding scenery etc.]

It might seem a lot of work and/or expense, but it will seem to be a small outlay

compared to the potential loss of precious models and the hours invested!

[i also agree with the use of bags of silica stuff {or rice!} if long term storage is[/size]

called for]

Good luck, Jeff

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You can buy reusable dehumidifying crystals from various sources; I bought mine in Auchan, Coquelles, a few years ago, but I have seen them in the UK as well (possibly the Bettaware catalogue). When they have turned from solid crystals into gel-like ones, you simply dry them in the oven on low heat.

For insulating the shed, I'd have a look at some of the foil-faced foam boards- they're easy to cut to fit between joists and frames, and the joints can be sealed with Duct/gaffer tape.

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  • 3 years later...

had my layout in my loft for last ten years not a problem yes the greese can go hard you just need to warm them through before use it is a good idea to insulate your loft a heater is no good as hot air and cold air cause condensation witch is no good for your locos.the best thing i have found is to get some of that insulateing form sheets and put it on the inside of your roof it has like a sort of foil on it so it worked for me not had a problem.

 

thanks hornbyhall

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It did come as a surprise to me, when reading up on factors for 'zinc pest' or 'mazak rot', that lower temperatures will accelerate failure.

 

Let's be clear on this, temperature does not cause the failure; but if the mazak contains a contaminant which will cause mazak rot, then exposures to lower temperatures will speed that contaminated mazak to its inevitable failure that much sooner than if it had been stored at room temperature.

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