Fitting sound: A Class 22 v Derby Leightweight comparison

[Savoyard]

Last night I decided to tackle two sound installations, a Bachmann Derby Lightweight and a Dapol Class 22, and what a comparison!

 

Derby Lightweight

 

- Struggle to take body off without damaging the underframe detail!

- No space for a speaker

- There is a space for a decoder but not big enough for a Loksound decoder (in this case a Loksound v3.5 SWD 108)

 

Therefore

- Saw off the metal surronding the decoder well to make it suitable for the sound decoder - including several body refits to check it fits OK

- Cut off parts of the seat backs to fit a Bass Enhanced Speaker

 

Eventually

- Refit body and hope all works well to avoid having to take that body off again!

 

Overall Ease of Fitting Score 1/10

 

Class 22

 

- Take body off - no problem

- put 21 pin decoder on plug

- put Bass Reflex (the bigger speaker) into ample space provided with clips!

- solder speaker wires to pcb

- refit body no problem

 

I then programmed to decoder - I have used a generic ESU DR project for the time being

 

Overall Ease of Fitting Score 10/10

 

Dapol - Well done for producing a sound decoder/speaker friendly loco! Top of the Class!

 

Bachmann - Can learn some lessons here - perhaps make part of the engine block removeable as you have done on some N gauge locos! Could do better!

 

I will post some pictures when I get chance as I'm at a small Model Rail Exhibition at Martin Mere Wildfowl Centre, Burscough, Lancashire today (10-4) with both the Class 22 and Derby Leightweight.

 

Regards,

 

Peter

[JohnR]

Sorry to dig this thread up, but out of interest what are the options for sound for the 22? Given that none have survived, the sound files will only be an approximation - so who's is the best version?

[SRman]

Not sure who else offers a 22 sound decoder but Howes have it in their 'generic' range - that's a little bit of a misnomer because it will still be tailored to the actual class 22 as closely as humanly possible, using known sounds available from other sources - preserved locomotives with the same or similar engines matched to archive footage and sounds (which are usually of too low a quality to use themselves).

 

Bryan (Howes' sound engineer) did something very similar for my Mirrlees class 30/Brush Type 2 and for Kestrel, amongst other projects.

 

Incidentally, it is my intention to get a decoder reblown by Howes with the class 22 sounds on, as soon as I get my act together and parcel it and a couple of other decoders up. I am usually very happy with the Howes sounds but I have not (yet) heard the 22. I will report on it and/or post a video in due course ... but don't anyone hold their breath!

 

I also found the Derby Lightweight class 108 was a pain to fit. I have not ground away any metal yet but that will happen soon so I can better position and hide the LokSound decoder. The bass reflex speaker, essential to get that lovely deep exhaust rasp, remains exposed in a position where I have removed a part of the seating unit.

[superkev]

Hi

Derby Lightweight - I have fitted a Zimo 645 with a 16x25mm ESU speaker from Costal DCC with a Bachman 2 function decoder pluged into the socket in the trailer.

As suggested by Costal I installed the speaker face down in the box that is ment for installing a decoder above the rear bogie. This did involve some cutting of the motor block for the wires and to let the sound out. The decoder sat on top of the motor which needed a retangle cutting in the plastic light reflector to allow the body to sidt down fully. This works well and generates lots of volume.

The Zimo worked straight from the box but the Bachman needed CV29 setting to 2 and CV 41 to zero.

 

Sound wise as someone who commuted on old type dmu's for 20 odd years Im perhaps a bit over critical of all the sound attempts Ive heard so far so Im still looking for something more accurate.

Points to note

1. BR diddnt look after ther stock too well and compressed air frequently leaked away when the were stood. This requred the driver to rev the engine up to full revs for up to a minute or so to re-charge up the system.. This happemed a lot. I havent seen anyone replicate this.

2. The engine revs started very low on starting and slowly increased to max in eajh of the 4 gears. This is NOT like Sprinter dmu's where the engine stays at full revs unless coasting.

3. A free wheel was fitted so on shutting the throttle the engines returned to idle and the unit coasted. Costal have a coasting function F7 to replicat this.

 

I havent attempted to switch the interior lights yet as the Trailer 6pin socket only copes with 2 functions for the head tail lights so mods would be requied.to fit an 8 pin one along with wiring mods in the power car.

May be of help

Kev.

[pauliebanger]

Hi

Derby Lightweight - I have fitted a Zimo 645 with a 16x25mm ESU speaker from Costal DCC with a Bachman 2 function decoder pluged into the socket in the trailer.

As suggested by Costal I installed the speaker face down in the box that is ment for installing a decoder above the rear bogie. This did involve some cutting of the motor block for the wires and to let the sound out. The decoder sat on top of the motor which needed a retangle cutting in the plastic light reflector to allow the body to sidt down fully. This works well and generates lots of volume.

The Zimo worked straight from the box but the Bachman needed CV29 setting to 2 and CV 41 to zero.

 

Sound wise as someone who commuted on old type dmu's for 20 odd years Im perhaps a bit over critical of all the sound attempts Ive heard so far so Im still looking for something more accurate.

Points to note

1. BR diddnt look after ther stock too well and compressed air frequently leaked away when the were stood. This requred the driver to rev the engine up to full revs for up to a minute or so to re-charge up the system.. This happemed a lot. I havent seen anyone replicate this.

2. The engine revs started very low on starting and slowly increased to max in eajh of the 4 gears. This is NOT like Sprinter dmu's where the engine stays at full revs unless coasting.

3. A free wheel was fitted so on shutting the throttle the engines returned to idle and the unit coasted. Costal have a coasting function F7 to replicat this.

 

I havent attempted to switch the interior lights yet as the Trailer 6pin socket only copes with 2 functions for the head tail lights so mods would be requied.to fit an 8 pin one along with wiring mods in the power car.

May be of help

Kev.

 

Kev,

 

I note you switch to ZIMO with interest. Ha Ha!

 

I've used an MX 646 located across the vestibule (over the 8-pin socket) No cutting required, 646 slips in. Then two Eckig speakers fitted as 'equipment boxes' underneath. Whole thing done in 45 mins.

 

I'm afraid you've been looking/listening in the wrong places for the features you want. Digitrains is the place to get my DMU sound project on a new Zimo, or PM me to discuss a re-blow for existing Zimos.

 

This is not the 'old' Digitrains DMU which may also available from other DCC outlets as you say. Ask for Multi-Drive by name.

 

Here are some features:

 

1. Two driving styles (my stuff is all Multi-Drive as you may know). One is the sort of thing you get with 'normal' projects, and the other allows you to 'change gear manually'. I think this is a first.

 

2. Proper coasting, no F key required. (Though that is available too!)

 

3. Rasping exhausts.

 

4. NO inadvertently recorded-in Railclack to spoil the sounds. (This gives the game away that other projects use the same gear change sounds repeated for each gear).

 

5. More sounds than you can shake a stick (or DCC controller) at.

 

6. Long and short acceleration/gearchange sounds (selectable, of course).

 

7. Compressor speed up. Actually runs for about 20 seconds in the project (only when standing). Easy to change this though with a simple CV change if you want longer or shorter. No need to reprogramme. (This is a ZIMO, after all).

 

8. Secret magic ingredients that make it the best DMU to date Ha ha. (You'll have to try it find out what these are).

 

Don't just take my word for it; ask anyone who saw/heard it at Peterborough last weekend.

 

 

Many thanks to the Railcar group at Llangollen who hosted several recording sessions (Classes 104 power twin, 108,109, 127 and 141) and without who's help this would not have been possible. For those who do not know, there is a long incline out of Llan station, so these units hold first gear for a long time.

 

Please support the group by visiting the railway - beautiful scenery - or by donation via their website: http://www.llangollenrailcars.com/

 

Their unique Class 109 Wickham is a thing of beauty - recently fully restored internally.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[pauliebanger]

 

I also found the Derby Lightweight class 108 was a pain to fit. I have not ground away any metal yet but that will happen soon so I can better position and hide the LokSound decoder. The bass reflex speaker, essential to get that lovely deep exhaust rasp, remains exposed in a position where I have removed a part of the seating unit.

 

The Derby Lightweights were not given a TOPs classification, I believe.

 

Class 108 is the later (heavyweight?) variant. Both the prototypes and the Bachmann models have significant design differences. In both models it is possible to fit decoders and speakers without spoiling the interiors.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[superkev]

Interesting. The reblow is tempting. Ill be listening more closely to dmus when I visit exhibitions (were at Leeds this weekend).

My speaker in the top compartment took less than 45min (just a slot for the speaker wires, a hole to let the sound out plus a recess in the clear lighting diffuser .

Whether my one 16x25mm speaker or your two Eckig speakers iunderneath sounds best im not sure.

 

Incidentally my Derby Lightweght is the original type not the later Class 108. (Has anyone managed to change the destination on one of these - Maryport is not where I want it to go) .

 

Kev

p.s. on the subject of useful sound features Ive never heard a "slipping steam engine" sound.

[SRman]

<p>

The Derby Lightweights were not given a TOPs classification, I believe.

 

Class 108 is the later (heavyweight?) variant. Both the prototypes and the Bachmann models have significant design differences. In both models it is possible to fit decoders and speakers without spoiling the interiors.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

No, Paul. Class 108 were a later version of Derby Lightweight. In some photos you can even make out the 'LW' stencilled over the buffers. The heavyweights were class 107 and long frame heavyweights were class 114.

 

EDIT: Sorry - some of my post went missing but superkev's post below covers much the same ground as my original but semi-lost one!!

[superkev]

The original Derby Lightweights were all Aluminium dictaed bythe largest engine available (125BHP) at the time and never received a TOPs class. The prototypes had hydraulic transmission which was prone to overheating They also had all EP valves in the train operated directly from the driven car which on a long train caused problems with volt drop. The light construction made them a bit fragile and many had to be rebuilt with steel ends after minor shunts.

The later Class 108 was of similar aluminium construction but as well has having the larger 150BHP engines then available had stronger ends with sloping windows influenced some say by the MCW protortypes. The coupling code was changed to the now standard blue square system which had local realys to operat the EP valves.

Some other Derby's - Class 107 were similar to look as the 108 but of steel construction, Class 114 were steel but longer at 64ft amd had to be up engined to Leyland/ Albion 235BHP engines.

May be of interest

Kev

[pauliebanger]

<p>

 

No, Paul. Class 108 were a later version of Derby Lightweight. In some photos you can even make out the 'LW' stencilled over the buffers. The heavyweights were class 107 and long frame heavyweights were class 114.

 

EDIT: Sorry - some of my post went missing but superkev's post below covers much the same ground as my original but semi-lost one!!

 

Thanks for the correction. I should not have speculated (hence the ? after Heavyweight in my post) before checking.

 

However, I think I was correct in the important points raised.

 

Derby Lightweights are not Class 108, which as I said are later variants, and there are siginficant design differences between them. Bachmann make a model of each and there are significant differences between the models' construction.

 

If you ordered a Class 108 Bachmann model expecting a Derby Lightweight, you would have a nasty surprise when the package arrived.

 

Those are the points I was trying to convey.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[SRman]

The confusion arises because both types are / were referred to by BR as Derby lightweights, particularly before the TOPS classifications came in and allowed us to differentiate by referring to the later design as class 108.