Freight To/From Avonmouth

[PatB]

They have built there own pier at Hinckley point.

 

Keith

Thanks for that. I knew a lot of work had taken place there over the years but hadn't been aware of that. Presumably cheaper and easier than recommissioning Lilstock .

[KeithHC]

Thanks for that. I knew a lot of work had taken place there over the years but hadn't been aware of that. Presumably cheaper and easier than recommissioning Lilstock .

 

This might help: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/tech-excellence/first-look-at-costains-hinkley-jetty/10017813.article

 

Keith

[Rivercider]

This might help: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/tech-excellence/first-look-at-costains-hinkley-jetty/10017813.article

 

Keith

Interesting.

My mums flat overlooks Weston seafront, we often see work boats heading between Hinkley and Avonmouth.

There have been two or three dredgers at work off Hinkley for some time, working out of Barry.

 

cheers

[The Pilotman]

Yes they're loading lights controlled by the hopper operator. As Fat controller said stop/proceed they can also display 'set back'

I seem to remember that these were also known colloquially as creep signals. There were (and probably still are) some at Theale for the unloading of the Foster Yeoman stone trains (or whoever owns them now). Once the loaded train had arrived, the shunter would phone up and say “give us the creeps”.

[The Stationmaster]

Stationmaster Mike will be able to give chapter and verse, as the coal terminal was his project; they're Stop/Proceed lights in connection with the loading of trains from the overhead hoppers, I believe. Similar lights were to be found at collieries and power stations during the 'Merry-Go-Round' days, but I think the first application was in conjunction with the hump yard at Toton, back in the 1930s.

 

They are nowadays officially described as 'Loading/Unloading Signals' although as already noted by Western aviaitor many gfolk know them as 'Creep signals' while elsewhere on the railway they are often called 'Toton signals' because one of their earliest app;lications was to control movements over the humps in Toton yard.

 

There has been a minor change over the years but the current  indications and meanings are -

Three lights,  red - white -red, shown horizontally - the operator requires the movement to stop. (this was originally three white lights shown horizontally)

Three white lights shown vertically  - the operator requires the movement to move at the normal speed for loading/unloading

Three white lights angled at 45 degrees (in the upper quadrant) - the operator requires the movement to prepare to stop

Three flashing white lights angled at 45 degrees (in the lower quadrant) - the operator requires the movement to move slowly in the opposite direction to that used for loading/unloading

No indication displayed - indicators are not in use

 

In the control panel example below, at a power station unloading terminal, you can see that the B Line Totons are illuminated because a train is unloading but the A Line Totons are not illuminated - this is on a very modern control system installed c.2007/8 and you will see that the designer has used the generic name 'Totons' on the VDU control screen.

 

 

In this enlargement of a ground level view through the unloading terminal you can see the A Line indicators on the left and you can just make out the white lights in the only B Line indicator visible to the right of the others if you enlarge the picture.

 

 

 

These photos are cropped from mine taken on an official visit to the power station concerned and must not be reproduced without permission.

[Ian Smeeton]

Is it just me, or are Greengrocer's apostrophes propagating to control panels, too?

 

Regards

 

Ian

[The Stationmaster]

Is it just me, or are Greengrocer's apostrophes propagating to control panels, too?

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

No, it's not you.  Knowing who designed this particular display as part of his contract to design the signalling renewal at that particular power station I'm not at all surprised.  However some other features of his design in relation to the way the place needed to be operated were far more worrying to me (coming along a couple of years later) than aberrant apostrophes.  Nothing dangerous as such but some very odd design ideas and not at all surprising that he wasn't commissioned to do a similar job on that particular company's other power station in the vicinity.

[keefer]

The 1977 ScR sectional appendix mentions these kinds of loading signals at various locations e.g. power stations, collieries etc.

 

Generally speaking the 'Toton' type are:

red-white-red: stop

3 whites (vertical): move away from bunker

3 whites (diagonal): move towards bunker

 

There are also colour-light types, with the number dependant on location, but with the general pattern:

Red: stop (sometimes stop immediately i.e. even though not yet at signal)

Yellow: proceed at 0.5 mph

Flashing red: reverse slowly

Green: proceed normally (with respect to any conditions applicable to the line)

Edited October 26, 2018 by keefer

[richscylla]

I was down at St. Andrews Road the other night looking at the Bulk Haulage Terminal and suddenly a Class 66 came along and loaded up! So I guess it's getting some use which was a little surprising. Took a video - that people will either find very interesting or very dull! 

 

[101]

I was down at St. Andrews Road the other night looking at the Bulk Haulage Terminal and suddenly a Class 66 came along and loaded up! So I guess it's getting some use which was a little surprising. Took a video - that people will either find very interesting or very dull!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjCzdTVXaMs

 

 

To be pedantic it's not actually loading there, it's running through the hopper and weighing the empty wagons, once through it would've run round and loaded in the opposite direction

[caradoc]

Is it just me, or are Greengrocer's apostrophes propagating to control panels, too?

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

Shouldn't that read Greengrocer's apostrophe's ?

 

Sorry !

[The Stationmaster]

I was down at St. Andrews Road the other night looking at the Bulk Haulage Terminal and suddenly a Class 66 came along and loaded up! So I guess it's getting some use which was a little surprising. Took a video - that people will either find very interesting or very dull! 

 

 

 

 

As already noted it is not loading but weighing (look at the Toton signals - they're the other way round!).  You also need to get the location name changed if you can - it is 'Bristol Bulk Handling Terminal'

[richscylla]

As already noted it is not loading but weighing (look at the Toton signals - they're the other way round!).  You also need to get the location name changed if you can - it is 'Bristol Bulk Handling Terminal'

I have changed the title of the video Mike. Thanks for letting me know. 

 

Do you have any drawings or measurements of the towers? I'm thinking of trying to scratch build it. 

[The Stationmaster]

I have changed the title of the video Mike. Thanks for letting me know. 

 

Do you have any drawings or measurements of the towers? I'm thinking of trying to scratch build it. 

 

No, all  I've got are some track plans and I'm not sure if any of them are dimensioned scale drawings.  The loading bunkers are verrrrrry tall!

[richscylla]

yes the are!!! It's what is attracting me to trying a build.

If you can send the track plans that would be good, I won't be re-creating the whole area exactly, just might go for the same feel so anything would help!

 

No, all  I've got are some track plans and I'm not sure if any of them are dimensioned scale drawings.  The loading bunkers are verrrrrry tall!

[101]

yes the are!!! It's what is attracting me to trying a build.

 

If you can send the track plans that would be good, I won't be re-creating the whole area exactly, just might go for the same feel so anything would help!

 

 

The track plan is not that complicated all quite easy to see on google earth

[Mark Saunders]

 

Do you have any drawings or measurements of the towers? I'm thinking of trying to scratch build it. 

 

For an introduction to similar buildings I recommend getting Arthur Ormrods (Arthur on here) book "Modelling Heavy Industry" before starting as these building are much bigger than you think. Walthers supply these as kits!

 

 https://www.amazon.com/Modelling-Heavy-Industry-Railway-Modellers/dp/1785003372

 

Mark Saunders

[richscylla]

I have looked on Google Earth and at the site itself, but I'm just interested to see what the track plans show.

 

The track plan is not that complicated all quite easy to see on google earth

[richscylla]

Thanks Mark! I will have a look at the book for sure - and also look into Walthers kits. 
 

For an introduction to similar buildings I recommend getting Arthur Ormrods (Arthur on here) book "Modelling Heavy Industry" before starting as these building are much bigger than you think. Walthers supply these as kits!

 

 https://www.amazon.com/Modelling-Heavy-Industry-Railway-Modellers/dp/1785003372

 

Mark Saunders

[The Stationmaster]

yes the are!!! It's what is attracting me to trying a build.

 

If you can send the track plans that would be good, I won't be re-creating the whole area exactly, just might go for the same feel so anything would help!

 

 

 

The drawings are several feet long and quite large - even the initial signalling facilities drawing - so they would not be cheap to copy (assuming I could find someone to copy them).  The layout on Google shows up exactly as I originally planned it and it is easy to work out the dimensions without a scale drawing as all the sidings and the runround loops are long enough to take a train of 45 HAAs/equivalent plus 2x Class 37 - which is how I planned it anyway as I had to start from a train length then fit in the pointwork.  

 

As already mentioned you can see the track layout fairly well on Google Maps which also gives some good elevation views of the loading bunkers

[rob D2]

I’m thinking about modelling a dock area.

Problem with a plank is, I’d get about the 3 HTas popping out from under the loader and that’s it.

 

I think the BHt would over dominate the size of the board anyway

 

Gonna do something like this instead I think

Edited November 28, 2018 by rob D2

[Downendian]

I've just seen this book by PD Rendall. The Avonmouth line, history and working

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Avonmouth-Line-History-Working/dp/1785004379

I've just ordered a copy, haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, has anyone got it?

Neil

[Bristol_Rich]

They are nowadays officially described as 'Loading/Unloading Signals' although as already noted by Western aviaitor many gfolk know them as 'Creep signals' while elsewhere on the railway they are often called 'Toton signals' because one of their earliest app;lications was to control movements over the humps in Toton yard.

 

There has been a minor change over the years but the current indications and meanings are -

Three lights, red - white -red, shown horizontally - the operator requires the movement to stop. (this was originally three white lights shown horizontally)

Three white lights shown vertically - the operator requires the movement to move at the normal speed for loading/unloading

Three white lights angled at 45 degrees (in the upper quadrant) - the operator requires the movement to prepare to stop

Three flashing white lights angled at 45 degrees (in the lower quadrant) - the operator requires the movement to move slowly in the opposite direction to that used for loading/unloading

No indication displayed - indicators are not in use

 

In the control panel example below, at a power station unloading terminal, you can see that the B Line Totons are illuminated because a train is unloading but the A Line Totons are not illuminated - this is on a very modern control system installed c.2007/8 and you will see that the designer has used the generic name 'Totons' on the VDU control screen.

 

DSCF2877 copy.jpg

 

In this enlargement of a ground level view through the unloading terminal you can see the A Line indicators on the left and you can just make out the white lights in the only B Line indicator visible to the right of the others if you enlarge the picture.

 

DSCF2861 copy.jpg

 

 

These photos are cropped from mine taken on an official visit to the power station concerned and must not be reproduced without permission.

Thanks for this... one thing I’ve always wondered is the application of these on the running mainline.

 

There was a set IIRC running in the reverse direction of the outbound line between Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road, Bristol for what I think was the Barrow Road refuse depot...

 

I’m assuming their application wasn’t limited to ‘yard’ areas or would they be for controlling other movements? Just wondered why other ‘shunting signals’ weren’t used given the length of the branch?

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for this... one thing I’ve always wondered is the application of these on the running mainline.

 

There was a set IIRC running in the reverse direction of the outbound line between Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road, Bristol for what I think was the Barrow Road refuse depot...

 

I’m assuming their application wasn’t limited to ‘yard’ areas or would they be for controlling other movements? Just wondered why other ‘shunting signals’ weren’t used given the length of the branch?

 

There were also some between West Drayton and Hayes for stone train unloading.  No problem with these installations as  the signals are only illuminated when needed to control a train discharging, the rest of the time they are 'black'

I've just seen this book by PD Rendall. The Avonmouth line, history and working

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Avonmouth-Line-History-Working/dp/1785004379

I've just ordered a copy, haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, has anyone got it?

Neil

 

Very much a curate's egg I'm afraid.  Lots of photos which will perhaps be useful, the bit about the bulk handling terminal is nonsense as it states it was originally intended as a stone terminal fore Foster yeoman - NO!!   Yeoman had expressed interest in a site at Avonmouth (maybe even this one?) for loading to rail hard stone brought in by their ship from their Scottish quarry but it never came to pass.  the Bulk Handling Terminal was wholly funded by CEGB and was designed and planned from the outset with a throughput capacity of 28 million tons of coal p.a. and no intention of handling any other traffic (because it would not have had the capacity to do so if the 28 million t.p.a. had actually happened). 

 

Thus other bits of the book might be similarly lacking in accuracy but it is interesting if you know the area and have some knowledge of it.

[brian daniels]

Oh happy days trying to stay awake whilst loading trains for Didcot.