HEA / HSA hopper wagon

[class37418stag]

hiya

 

Anyone know or seen on photo by HEA / HSA hopper wagon carry scrap from scrap yard to steel work?

 

Thank you

[hmrspaul]

Here http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brhba/e9446741

 

http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brhba/e1df64701

 

Paul Bartlett

[class37418stag]

hiya

 

Anyone know or seen on photo by HEA / HSA hopper wagon carry scrap from scrap yard to steel work?

 

Thank you

No comment ?

I found out

 

HEA hopper wagon carry domestic coal for household

 

HSA hopper wagon carry scrap for foundry steel work ( HSA welded bottom hatch)

[Scottish Modeller]

No comment ?

I found out

 

HEA hopper wagon carry domestic coal for household

 

HSA hopper wagon carry scrap for foundry steel work ( HSA welded bottom hatch)

Hi Andrew,

 

Paul has replied to you? Have you tried the links given by him?

 

You will find a lot more photos if you do a Google search using HEA Wagon and HSA Wagon.

 

Thanks

[br2975]

HSA hopper wagon carry scrap for foundry steel work ( HSA welded bottom hatch)

 

The HSA also had a layer of ballast in the bottom covering the hopper doors.

[rob D2]

No comment ?

I found out

HEA hopper wagon carry domestic coal for household

HSA hopper wagon carry scrap for foundry steel work ( HSA welded bottom hatch)

 

It's taken 5 years to deduce that ??

[Pete the Elaner]

If the OP had asked that instead of just asking for a photo, I am sure it would have been answered almost immediately.

 

I didn't see HSAs much but HEAs are ideal for modelling. I never saw them in block trains but one of my local stations (Colchester Hythe) had a domestic coal yard. When passing through in the 1980s/1990s there could be anything from 2 to 14 scattered around.

I believe the delivery was overnnight once a week, but I am unsure if this was to Colchester or Hythe.

Colchester's 08 used to travel over & shuffle them about once in a while. I never saw this happen when passing through but I remember once seeing it from a distance.

[JohnH]

I saw several HEA's used alongside HSA's and 'Black Adder' POA's on scrap traffic at Trafford Park, Manchester in the late 1980's. The HEA's may have been modified but had not at that time been re-coded.

 

The traffic was 'Frag' from Norton Metals to ASW Cardiff.

 

HEA's were also used on other traffic flows apart from coal and coke. Some were used to carry calcified seaweed from Cornwall and also rock salt from Over and Warton near Winsford.

[cobbler]

HSA wagons worked out of Corby with steel tube and pipe offcuts to South Yorkshire

Believe SSA wagons took over the flow, several HSA were used as internal mobile skips at the steel works, scrapped a few years ago

 

Richard

[Rivercider]

There were just under 2000 HBAs built between 1976 and 1979, principally to replace 21t vacuum braked hoppers (HTV) on domestic and industrial coal flows.

Many HBAs later received modified suspension and were recoded HEA.

 

Even as the wagons were still under construction the market for domestic coal was collapsing and the introduction of the Speedlink Coal Network (SCN)

failed to halt the decline. I was working at WR HQ at Swindon when the SCN was introduced and even I as a fairly junior clerk could see the prospects were not good.

For my own interest I did TOPS enquiries for a month for each SCN coal terminal on BR to see what traffic was actually passing, most terminals only received a handful of wagons per day, some of the smaller ones only a handful of wagons per week!

Coal terminals like Southampton Dibles Wharf, Totton and Hove were scheduled to receive a daily service when I could see they were only receiving about 5 to 10 wagons weekly, the plans were rapidly amended to be a MWFO service.

The SCN itself was abandoned in 1993 though a couple of terminals like West Drayton still received block trains of domestic coal.

 

Other work had to be found for the surplus HBA and HEA wagons, hence the use of some for scrap traffic,

 

cheers 

[JohnH]

 

For my own interest I did TOPS enquiries for a month for each SCN coal terminal on BR to see what traffic was actually passing, most terminals only received a handful of wagons per day, some of the smaller ones only a handful of wagons per week!

 

Is there any chance of posting these TOPS enquiries Rivercider? I'd be fascinated to see the actual traffic figures at these locations. 

[brucie37109]

If you are looking for HBA / HEA wagons in use on domestic coal trains I have a few photos on my website. It shows Speedlink workings delivering coal to Chadderton Goods near Oldham during the 1980's. There are a few photos of steam and vacuum braked 16T wagon workings as well. http://www.chaddy-goods.co.uk/chadderton-goods-photos/br-trains-on-the-branch/

[cravensdmufan]

Can anyone advise me please re: 00 models of HBA / HEA wagons?

 

I have a rake of 12 purchased many years ago.  I've only just got round to trying to run them on my layout!  To me, they still look good and hold up well.  Problem is they don't hold on to the track very well!  My goodness, they are light footed!

 

They are from a mixture of manufacturers - Dapol, Bachmann (and possibly Mainline?) and all have the same type of plastic tension lock couplings (not the narrow NEM type).

 

So, I have re-wheeled them with Bachmann metal wheels (some of them were originally plastic) and I have added extra weight with Deluxe Materials Liquid Gravity.  I read somewhere that 25 grams per axle is an optimum weight.  So each of my wagons now weighs 50 grams.  I checked and adjusted all the axles back to back measurements.

 

Track is Peco Code 100, and well laid (even though I say so myself!) and no other stock derails.

 

But these just seem come off randomly - never the same wagon or at the same place!

 

Really strange, and I can't fathom out why just these particular wagons. And now I've run out of ideas! 

 

Has anyone else had problems with these?  They have been around for years so thousands must have been sold!

 

Any ideas or solutions gratefully received.  Thanks.

[Rivercider]

On 14/07/2017 at 16:36, JohnH said:

Is there any chance of posting these TOPS enquiries Rivercider? I'd be fascinated to see the actual traffic figures at these locations. 

Sorry John.

This must be one of the slowest replies on RMweb, but I did not keep copies of the traffic records.

What I compiled was a hand written spread sheet for 4 weeks, for the coal depots in the WR and SR regions of BR.

 

At a rough guess daily loadings for locations like Exmouth Junction in Exeter were something like 5,3,8,2,7 HEAs.

Whereas daily loadings for a depot like Dibles Wharf were roughly 3,0,4,1,1 HEAs. Hardly worth a daily service.

 

cheers

[JohnH]

No need to apologise Rivercider - I'm hugely grateful for all the photos and fascinating information you post

 

Thanks for the HEA totals. I find details like this are an essential part of trying to model a believable scenario in miniature.

[beast66606]

14 hours ago, cravensdmufan said:

Can anyone advise me please re: 00 models of HBA / HEA wagons?

 

I have a rake of 12 purchased many years ago.  I've only just got round to trying to run them on my layout!  To me, they still look good and hold up well.  Problem is they don't hold on to the track very well!  My goodness, they are light footed!

 

They are from a mixture of manufacturers - Dapol, Bachmann (and possibly Mainline?) and all have the same type of plastic tension lock couplings (not the narrow NEM type).

 

So, I have re-wheeled them with Bachmann metal wheels (some of them were originally plastic) and I have added extra weight with Deluxe Materials Liquid Gravity.  I read somewhere that 25 grams per axle is an optimum weight.  So each of my wagons now weighs 50 grams.  I checked and adjusted all the axles back to back measurements.

 

Track is Peco Code 100, and well laid (even though I say so myself!) and no other stock derails.

 

But these just seem come off randomly - never the same wagon or at the same place!

 

Really strange, and I can't fathom out why just these particular wagons. And now I've run out of ideas! 

 

Has anyone else had problems with these?  They have been around for years so thousands must have been sold!

 

Any ideas or solutions gratefully received.  Thanks.

 

Check the back to back settings of the wheelsets, and check the wheels are square on the axle.

Check your couplings can move as designed.

 

When I made the rake for Widnes I weighted them very heavily, they roll freely so the extra weight is not too much of an issue for a good loco - but you will need to determine your own maximum - it was certainly a lot more than 25gm per axle.

[Rivercider]

1 hour ago, JohnH said:

No need to apologise Rivercider - I'm hugely grateful for all the photos and fascinating information you post

 

Thanks for the HEA totals. I find details like this are an essential part of trying to model a believable scenario in miniature.

I could see why the different business sectors wanted control of their own traffic, hence steel and coal were taken off Speedlink. But to me it seemed the separate networks had far too little traffic to each justify a network. When a colleague of mine in the Freight Planning section where I worked at the time showed me the original train proposal for the Speedlink Coal Network I could not believe they were serious! The chap concerned knew of my interest in freight, it was not his idea. he was simply acting as directed, though being an experienced old school railwayman he had his doubts also.

At the time coal in HEAs to Exmouth Junction and Taunton for example contributed to the West of England  Speedlink feeder services being well loaded. And since they were loaded westbound empty eastbound they complimented the clay traffic which was the other way round. The local trip work from Exeter Riverside was combined with moving cement, bitumen, and other traffic in the Exeter area, giving the local trip pilot loco a full days work. Once the coal went on the SCN the pilot was still required for other work, so there was not that much saving there, and I suspect elsewhere also.

 

cheers 

[Mark Forrest]

16 hours ago, cravensdmufan said:

Can anyone advise me please re: 00 models of HBA / HEA wagons?

 

I have a rake of 12 purchased many years ago.  I've only just got round to trying to run them on my layout!  To me, they still look good and hold up well.  Problem is they don't hold on to the track very well!  My goodness, they are light footed!

 

They are from a mixture of manufacturers - Dapol, Bachmann (and possibly Mainline?) and all have the same type of plastic tension lock couplings (not the narrow NEM type).

 

So, I have re-wheeled them with Bachmann metal wheels (some of them were originally plastic) and I have added extra weight with Deluxe Materials Liquid Gravity.  I read somewhere that 25 grams per axle is an optimum weight.  So each of my wagons now weighs 50 grams.  I checked and adjusted all the axles back to back measurements.

 

Track is Peco Code 100, and well laid (even though I say so myself!) and no other stock derails.

 

But these just seem come off randomly - never the same wagon or at the same place!

 

Really strange, and I can't fathom out why just these particular wagons. And now I've run out of ideas! 

 

Has anyone else had problems with these?  They have been around for years so thousands must have been sold!

 

Any ideas or solutions gratefully received.  Thanks.

 

I have a rake of these that I've rewheeled to P4, just a simple wheel swap, no suspension/compensation or anything like that and I've not added any extra weight (tension lock couplings removed though).

Most are the older Bachmann/Dapol type, although a couple are the newer Bachmann ones with retooled chassis.  I've found all but one of them to run satisfactorily, but there is one which seems to have been assembled with a slight twist to it meaning that it rocks on its wheels - so that might be something to look out for (place the wagon on some glass or a mirror to see it it rocks).  To attempt to resolve this, I removed the body from chassis and straighten out the chassis by twisting it then refitted the body, which improved things a little, although still not quite good enough to stay on P4 track.

[cravensdmufan]

3 hours ago, beast66606 said:

 

Check the back to back settings of the wheelsets, and check the wheels are square on the axle.

Check your couplings can move as designed.

 

When I made the rake for Widnes I weighted them very heavily, they roll freely so the extra weight is not too much of an issue for a good loco - but you will need to determine your own maximum - it was certainly a lot more than 25gm per axle.

Thanks I'll try a bit more weight.  As you say, It'll be no problem for modern Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan locos.

 

[cravensdmufan]

1 hour ago, Mark Forrest said:

 

I have a rake of these that I've rewheeled to P4, just a simple wheel swap, no suspension/compensation or anything like that and I've not added any extra weight (tension lock couplings removed though).

Most are the older Bachmann/Dapol type, although a couple are the newer Bachmann ones with retooled chassis.  I've found all but one of them to run satisfactorily, but there is one which seems to have been assembled with a slight twist to it meaning that it rocks on its wheels - so that might be something to look out for (place the wagon on some glass or a mirror to see it it rocks).  To attempt to resolve this, I removed the body from chassis and straighten out the chassis by twisting it then refitted the body, which improved things a little, although still not quite good enough to stay on P4 track.

Thanks for your comments. 

 

Yes, I've noticed one or two have a slight wobble, and you're right, on closer inspection they don't appear to sit "straight" on the track as if the chassis is slightly twisted.  Good tip about checking them on glass.  More investigation required.

 

Cheers.