Bachmann Speculation for 2012

[Forester]

I've been waiting for years for Hornby to do an unrebuilt, sorry, air-smoothed, Merchant Navy, but they obviously don't think its worth the expense of putting a new body on to the chassis they've already got - so it wouldn't surprise me if Bachmann did it, as it's one of the few 8P locos left thats still not available r-t-r. I'd buy a few!

 

I agree. It's the only remaining class still to be modelled that I would buy a large number of.

Would Bachmann would take a gamble on it, though?

 

 

The greater gap to be filled is the Atlantic ocean of opportunity. I was surprised Hornby didn't stake a claim here but since they missed the opportunity I'd be very surprised if Bachmann allows them a second chance.

 

And someone has to do the Birdcage stock soon. I can see them introducing these and following up with either an H class (to go with their C class) or a NRM D class (exceptionally fine loco and SECR livery) the following year.

[Barry O]

I don't mind the speculation - but where oh where are the CovHops??? With a major change in Chinese manufacturing going on we may see a slowing down of items projected while they sort out the cost base

 

I too would like an EMU of some sort - but can I have the stuff already promised first please?

[ThaneofFife]

Plenty has been said here in 13 pages of guessing/speculating what might be next but what about looking beyond simply the classes of loco or type of wagon etc.? im thinking about innovative new features on the models we have already that could be re-released with the improvements as we all tend to bang on about new locos...here are my thoughts on areas that i would like to see upgraded or added.

 

more internal coach lighting - the EMUs and DMUs are now gaining this feature as standard so it would be good to see some loco hauled coaches be fitted up and not just like the Mk1 pullmans with table lamps (nice as they are). the Blue Pullman coaches will feature ceiling lighting and this would be nice to see in the Mk1 range at least. and of course you could vary the colours of light for the given period the coaches are intended to work in from extremely dim incandescent to very bright flourescent.

Even the option of a separate light bar kit like Dapol with its Mk3s would be better than nothing as Bachmann could then at least sell the coaches with the Pullman like bogies complete with track pick ups. Of course the pick ups would be needed on the B4s and BR1s etc.

flexible interconnecting gangways and may more sprung buffers as standard on rolling stock

im surprised Bachmann havent adopted Kadees as standard for buckeye stock - much easier to split trains than if using the bar arrangement that is supposed to represent brake pipes as that is very awkward to uncouple.

more detailed coach interiors-perhaps printed frabic patterns visible under the lighting.

optional passenger figures inside ?

tail lamps on brake vehicles. flashing and constant.

inter coach pipework that can be used on layouts with larger curves and not cause obstruction/derailment

connectable loco multiple working cables-and maybe these could act as through train feeds for lighting if not through the actual coupling.

switching off of tail lights via an aux DCC function - this is available on many none UK models so its about time we had this rather than using switches under the locos.

independent cab light control on twin cab locos

could opening doors work on coaches? would certainly look good in a station but likely to need hand of god to close them all.

diesel smoke has been mentioned many times before but its actually one feature i wouldnt be so bothered abotu having plus the smoke would not scale.

locomotive engine room lighting.

less obvious shiny bronze pick ups visible behind the wheelsets/bogies. how hard can it be to blacken these parts?

 

the coaching stock ranges could perhaps be split into 2 new sub brands with a premium brand for those coaches with many of the above ideas and standard coaches with no extras stay in the regular sub-brand.

 

i know all this can be achieved through our own efforts amd a lot of hard work but of course these days its often a question of either not having the time or having the skills (or both) so more of these features as standard might cost us a bit more but would free up far more valuable time to actually enjoy our models more and not spend years stressing about when we'll ever finish them to the level we want.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Keep yer Alans on buddy, they'll be here soon enough!

 

Dave.

 

 

I don't mind the speculation - but where oh where are the CovHops??? With a major change in Chinese manufacturing going on we may see a slowing down of items projected while they sort out the cost base

 

I too would like an EMU of some sort - but can I have the stuff already promised first please?

[Metr0Land]

Pardon my ignorance but is a 1F so very different from a Jinty (apart from the cab area)? If not, wouldn't that be an easy hit for Bachmann?

[Les1952]

Only two predictions, both LNER-based.

 

1. We WON'T see an O1. Hornby showed theirs in the metal/plastic, not just as a picture of the prototype loco. As things stand Bachmann wouldn't get an O1 to market before Hornby had mopped up most of the available sales.

 

2. We MIGHT see a re-chassised V2 with an upgraded body for the same reason- ie Hornby HAVEN'T announced one. I suspect that limiting the upgrade to the Bachmann B1 to basically mechanicals was to keep it's price nearer to Hornby Railroad than to the Hornby B1, thus pitching it at a different sector of the market.

 

Nothing more than a couple of hunches..... Now, how about an upgraded FARISH V2 to keep me really happy?

 

Les

[frobisher]

1. We WON'T see an O1. Hornby showed theirs in the metal/plastic, not just as a picture of the prototype loco. As things stand Bachmann wouldn't get an O1 to market before Hornby had mopped up most of the available sales.

 

We might see a repeat of the 4MT situation however, where Bachmann are beyond the point of of no return. Hornby aren't the only one to roll out engineering prototypes at announcement of products. I wouldn't like to judge thie one one way or the other though. I'm hoping that they weren't prepping one.

 

2. We MIGHT see a re-chassised V2 with an upgraded body for the same reason- ie Hornby HAVEN'T announced one. I suspect that limiting the upgrade to the Bachmann B1 to basically mechanicals was to keep it's price nearer to Hornby Railroad than to the Hornby B1, thus pitching it at a different sector of the market.

 

I'm thinking that if Bachmann were going down that route, they wouldn't be bothering with the halfway house of the re-chassised V2 and would have skipped that stage. As it stands I'm fairly convinced that Bachmann feel that Hornby have their eyes on the V2 for some point in the near future, so we looking to maintain a viable product against it (like with the A4 and B1).

 

Nothing more than a couple of hunches..... Now, how about an upgraded FARISH V2 to keep me really happy?

 

We'll probably get that after an 00 one...

[Zunnan]

LMS derived suburban stock would be worth considering in the wake of Hornbys apparent success with the LNER vehicles, I'm fairly sure the 57' Porthole chassis isn't that far from the later suburban vehicles, if this is the case it would make sense to get some extra miles out of the chassis tooling currently being prepared. And some LMS group standard freight vehicles would go down quite nicely too. One or both of these would make me a very happy bunny!

 

How about the AM4, as a bedfellow for the AL5, and with quite a few possibilities with liveries and other closely related classes? Maybe not this year, but definately one for the future.

[Ed-farms]

We WON'T see an O1. Hornby showed theirs in the metal/plastic, not just as a picture of the prototype loco. As things stand Bachmann wouldn't get an O1 to market before Hornby had mopped up most of the available sales.

We might see a repeat of the 4MT situation however, where Bachmann are beyond the point of of no return. Hornby aren't the only one to roll out engineering prototypes at announcement of products. I wouldn't like to judge thie one one way or the other though. I'm hoping that they weren't prepping one.

 

I don't think there is any chance of that, the Hornby O1 will no doubt incorporate part of the B1 tooling (boiler) which is brand new and thus could be made with this in mind, whereas the Bachmann B1 is 20-odd years old and the tooling will be less "flexible" than Hornby's.

[frobisher]

I don't think there is any chance of that, the Hornby O1 will no doubt incorporate part of the B1 tooling (boiler) which is brand new and thus could be made with this in mind, whereas the Bachmann B1 is 20-odd years old and the tooling will be less "flexible" than Hornby's.

 

Why would Bachmann be led by the same citeria to the model that Hornby may have been lead by? It's an O2 rebuild after all, so there's a lot of elements that Bachmann already have in place, along with the updated valve gear from the new B1 chassis but a new body/boiler was always on the cards if this were to happen.

[iL Dottore]

... but what about looking beyond simply the classes of loco or type of wagon etc.? I'm thinking about innovative new features on the models we have already that could be re-released with the improvements as we all tend to bang on about new locos...here are my thoughts on areas that I would like to see upgraded or added....

Sorry to "rain upon your parade" (as they say), but it would appear that the uptake, in the UK, of new model railway technology lags way behind the US and Europe in terms of it being adopted (think of the perennial DC vs DCC discussion that pops up every year like dandelions in a garden).

 

Given the oft repeated assertion by some that models are getting "too expensive" (although UK outline is still quite inexpensive in comparison with much of Europe's output), would those modellers willing to embrace new technology also be willing to pay for it? Some (many?), I suspect, would not.

 

Much as I would like to have (and be willing to pay for) 3 or 4 sets of a Class 302 4 Coach EMU with DCC on board, prototypical internal and external lighting, DCC sound and a working pantograph, would enough other UK outline modellers buy enough units to permit Bachmann (or anyone else for that matter) to invest in full scale production? I think unlikely, as I could foresee such a model easily going North of £175 - £200 (or higher).

 

What perhaps would be easier, would be for Bachmann to build new models in such a way that adding internal lighting, etc. becomes a simple straight forward "plug and play" operation (and for Bachmann to produce the items for the modeller to plug in)

 

F

[Pennine MC]

Why would Bachmann be led by the same citeria to the model that Hornby may have been lead by? It's an O2* rebuild after all, so there's a lot of elements that Bachmann already have in place, along with the updated valve gear from the new B1 chassis but a new body/boiler was always on the cards if this were to happen.

 

* I guess you mean O4?

 

I think what Ed was getting at is that if Bachmann were planning a new 100A boiler, why wouldnt they use it on the B1. See what you're saying though.

[frobisher]

* I guess you mean O4?

 

I very probably do Hey, I got it half right at least.

[Jon020]

What perhaps would be easier, would be for Bachmann to build new models in such a way that adding internal lighting, etc. becomes a simple straight forward "plug and play" operation (and for Bachmann to produce the items for the modeller to plug in)

Hmmm you mean producing a basic model that enables easier upgrades through third party suppliers. Now there's a thought.

[ThaneofFife]

Sorry to "rain upon your parade" (as they say),

What perhaps would be easier, would be for Bachmann to build new models in such a way that adding internal lighting, etc. becomes a simple straight forward "plug and play" operation (and for Bachmann to produce the items for the modeller to plug in)

 

F

 

I wasnt aware that casting a few ideas qualified as a parade so you really have no need to be so apologetic.

If you go back and read my earlier comment again youll find inclusion of the suggestion for an optional light bar set up similar to the Dapol system so I think you overlooked that.

 

North of £200 i dont think is a real barrier these days (I think the belief that UK modellers like to keep their hands in their pockets is now largely a figment of the imagination and it belongs in the past - if the models are good enough we will buy them albeit with a lot og moaning and huffing an puffing but we will buy them) with the onset of sound locos that now exceed this price point, the Blue Pullman models even discounted at £280, the EM1s and EM2s which are £160 dcc ready only, the Brighton Belles, coaches that retail for over £50 etc. That said I dont believe a 4 car EMU such as the 302 would reach the £200 mark anyway or even the £175 point on a good day with a following wind not if Bachmann produced them and this is a Bachmann thread afterall. One quick glance at the cost of the 350 Desiro 4 car unit should be enough to spell it out clearly to anyone interested in a 302 or other unit like the aforementioned AM10 etc.

[davidw]

I wasnt aware that casting a few ideas qualified as a parade so you really have no need to be so apologetic.

If you go back and read my earlier comment again youll find inclusion of the suggestion for an optional light bar set up similar to the Dapol system so I think you overlooked that.

 

North of £200 i dont think is a real barrier these days (I think the belief that UK modellers like to keep their hands in their pockets is now largely a figment of the imagination and it belongs in the past - if the models are good enough we will buy them albeit with a lot og moaning and huffing an puffing but we will buy them) with the onset of sound locos that now exceed this price point, the Blue Pullman models even discounted at £280, the EM1s and EM2s which are £160 dcc ready only, the Brighton Belles, coaches that retail for over £50 etc. That said I dont believe a 4 car EMU such as the 302 would reach the £200 mark anyway or even the £175 point on a good day with a following wind not if Bachmann produced them and this is a Bachmann thread afterall. One quick glance at the cost of the 350 Desiro 4 car unit should be enough to spell it out clearly to anyone interested in a 302 or other unit like the aforementioned AM10 etc.

 

Sorry to disagree but no I won't buy them and I don't buy in the number of models that I once bought. I'm far more choosy and careful than I was. Due to the simple need to budget.

[Guest dilbert]

Sorry to disagree but no I won't buy them and I won't and don't buy in the number of models that I once bought. I'm far more choosy and careful than I was. Due to the simple need to budget.

 

There is also the 'value for money' aspect to consider and this will specific to each individual - Given the price (even discounted of a sound fitted loco), a BP or a BB full set appears to give value and sales potential. Any item that is proposed that offers the punter ''easy' options of adding whatever chip(s) or additional electronic accessories of their choice is a sound (sorry) approach... dilbert

[ThaneofFife]

Of course value for money comes into it but is subjective but I dont see evidence of Bachmann having adopted the approach of charging higher than standard run prices for scaled down less popular classes of loco - limited or special edition runs yes maybe but thats different. If this were true then would we not have seen the price of the Class 350 exceed £175 retail? The 3rd rail 4 car EMUs are perhaps not quite as specialised as the overhead EMUs that require more obvious catenary but all the same these are priced well within most budgets and the sales of these items proves that. Any premium for a 4 car set with a pantograph on the roof instead of collection shoes on the bogies would and should be marginal.

 

Items like fully loaded EMUs such as the 302 in Ill Dotorres example may not be as popular as the steam or diesel classes but to suggest that should they go into production for the few that do want them and that they would command a price north of £175 is rather simplistic line of thinking. Some will be familiar with the term loss leader and who is not to say that for example the Class 24 models are not to a degree being subsidised by the more popular classes 20, 37 and 47? Surely it can work both ways? Is it better to introduce a new model that will supersede or beat your competitor and at least help to maintain your position at the top (whether that means robbing Peter to pay Paul from other models in house) than to do nothing and assume people will not pay.

 

Every year the wishlisting threads run on and on and its clear to me that whilst most of us like value for money we'd still dig deep for that long awaited never before released all new model but I really dont think its even worth worrying about in the case of a new 302. If I was check my crystal ball I would say a more realistic box shifting price to be around the £130-150 mark which is well with the budgets of most modellers inspite of the current economic climate.

[Legend]

Sorry to disagree but no I won't buy them and I don't buy in the number of models that I once bought. I'm far more choosy and careful than I was. Due to the simple need to budget.

 

Agree with you there David. I'd say North of £100 is still an obstacle! I know Hornby have breeched this for sometime but most Bachmann locos are still (just) sub £100. Could this be the reason they are more successfull than Hornby at the moment.....................

[Guest dilbert]

ToF,

 

Of course 'value for money' is subjective, I did not state otherwise... as for 'loss leaders' then even in the best of times these have a limited lifespan. Do the mainstream automotive manufacturers produce the equivalent model of a Ferrari ? Of course they don't - they would be out of business for obvious reasons. There is one automotive brand that recently has received the death knell - not in the totally exclusive desired range, but in the a niche area that some people bought into ? Do you know which brand this is and how long it had been suffering ?... dilbert

[Kelly]

For me with my very limited budget, pretty much all of the Hornby and Bachmann releases are beyond my means presently and will remain so for a while unless I save a lot. So whilst I might like 2EPBs, 4CEPs, 5BELs as well as WC/BoB, MN, Ns, Q1s and so on I just have to accept I cannot. I think smaller as a result.

 

This is why my plan for West Cromwell Road appeals. I have some stock I can use for it already, mainly an old Mainline 57xx that I'll convert and repaint as an L9x LU tank. At some point I'll et one of the newer Bachmann ones perhaps to replace it when money allows.

 

The sad fact is £50+ is too much by far for me, and I suspect it is too for a lot of people. Hornby aim at multiple markets and families feeling the pinch won't be spending £100-200 on a model for their kids (or themselves), so they'll suffer.

 

Next year I might be able to get some of the items I want though at least I think

['CHARD]

A 325? Ohhh please no...re BREL York

 

I don't understand this post. 325s have no relationship to York, other than some superficial similarities in a few assemblies. They were a product of Litchurch Lane.

[Physicsman]

For me with my very limited budget, pretty much all of the Hornby and Bachmann releases are beyond my means presently and will remain so for a while unless I save a lot. So whilst I might like 2EPBs, 4CEPs, 5BELs as well as WC/BoB, MN, Ns, Q1s and so on I just have to accept I cannot. I think smaller as a result.

 

This is why my plan for West Cromwell Road appeals. I have some stock I can use for it already, mainly an old Mainline 57xx that I'll convert and repaint as an L9x LU tank. At some point I'll et one of the newer Bachmann ones perhaps to replace it when money allows.

 

The sad fact is £50+ is too much by far for me, and I suspect it is too for a lot of people. Hornby aim at multiple markets and families feeling the pinch won't be spending £100-200 on a model for their kids (or themselves), so they'll suffer.

 

Next year I might be able to get some of the items I want though at least I think

 

On a more serious note, it's good to see Kelly's reality check. I do wonder how much disposable income I'm going to have, once I retire, and the lure of all those super-dooper new releases - that I would love to buy - may be beyond me.

 

Jeff

[iL Dottore]

... Items like fully loaded EMUs such as the 302 in iL Dottores example may not be as popular as the steam or diesel classes but to suggest that should they go into production for the few that do want them and that they would command a price north of £175 is rather simplistic line of thinking....

I was actually stating the opposite: viz - whilst I (and a few others I know) would be willing and able to buy a few sets of Class 302s at > £175/set, that alone is not enough for Bachmann to produce such a model (I suspect [and I may be wrong here] there wouldn't be a big enough market for such a model). A price of "North of £175" is speculative, but for a 4 car EMU with "all the knobs on" such a price wouldn't be surprising.

 

As to the relevance of the Class 302 to the speculation thread, it is that the Class 302 (like some other BR EMUs) was derived from the Mk 1 carriage body shell and Bachmann have excellent toolings for the Mk 1 that could be exploited in order to expand into the EMU market.

 

I'm a bit puzzled about the SAAB references on this thread as well. It's a great car (I have a 2 year old 9-3 and couldn't be happier with it), but unless Bachmann has bought some SAAB tooling (an interesting thought), I don't see the connection.

 

F

[The Stationmaster]

On a more serious note, it's good to see Kelly's reality check. I do wonder how much disposable income I'm going to have, once I retire, and the lure of all those super-dooper new releases - that I would love to buy - may be beyond me.

Jeff

As a man of science you will find 'retirement' introduces a new law of physics in relation to time in a variant of Parkinson's Law in that demands upon your time (for 'other things') will not only expand to fill the time you have available but will exceed it to such an extent that you will never be able to calculate how you found the time to go to work (or, for one of a scientific background, to theorise how that could be rationally explained).

 

In stark contrast to this disappearance of time you might find that money does the opposite, in equally inexplicable fashion. Now I really ought to be off to the bank as I have another insurance cheque to pay in!