shortliner Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thought these might interest you both - a bit noisy, but may quieten down in use http://www.youtube.c...r/railflyer1977 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I've been watching this project develop, having been given the heads up from my connections to CLAG and Ted Scannels work in this area. I understand that if the 40 inch wheel version sells well enough then a 36 inch wheel version will be put on the market. As I have trolley cars with 36 inch wheels I am being patient and hopeful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 These have been discussed at length on other forums, and there are a lot of questions, not the least being the price. But perhaps the biggest question is why? The bogies they are developing are all US style bogies usually only found on US models. And to produce these for a US market, where every type, variation and version of a diesel locomotive is available for little money RTR, and where almost no-one scratchbuilds diesel locomotives anymore? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Whilst no-one technically scratchbuilds in the US, the 'proto' movement seems to be gathering pace. Some of these guys are doing some pretty extensive rebuilds of the available models to either convert them to something different, or more true representations of the prototype. As far as I can see, these will fit into that market nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 These have been discussed at length on other forums, and there are a lot of questions, not the least being the price. But perhaps the biggest question is why? The bogies they are developing are all US style bogies usually only found on US models. And to produce these for a US market, where every type, variation and version of a diesel locomotive is available for little money RTR, and where almost no-one scratchbuilds diesel locomotives anymore? if only that were true, I'm sure american outline modellers would wish that every type, variation & version of diesel were available RTR, but there again if that were the case the likes of Kaslo shops would be out of businessNigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 These have been discussed at length on other forums, and there are a lot of questions, not the least being the price. But perhaps the biggest question is why? The bogies they are developing are all US style bogies usually only found on US models. And to produce these for a US market, where every type, variation and version of a diesel locomotive is available for little money RTR, and where almost no-one scratchbuilds diesel locomotives anymore? Add to this that the design will apparently require a bespoke electronics package for use with DCC...and it has many of us over very perplexed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelmaker87 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 FWIW, I placed an order with Chris Howard at Railflyer last June 2011 and have waited patiently for the product, and still waiting. Once I have received my order, reviewed, worked on and installed the stuff I will have some experience with this project. My intent is to install his trucks and axle motors in a scratch built GP38-2. At this time I can't see any special electrical problems, although I have no experience with these motors yet. My thinking is that this will be as as consisting 2 or more motors in the same way as one would pair up a couple of engines in a consist. He said, hopefully. Cheers, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Interesting, but looking at my current and planned workbench projects, can't see anything that can't be fulfilled with my usual choice of either a Bachmann 44 tonner/Underground Ernie mech or something from Hollywood Foundry. The haulage test looks impressive but what would the long term effects be of all of the weight needed to compensate for the lack of torque from a smaller high-revving motor....? I can also see a control issue with DCC, in theory you'd have to have one motor running without BEMF and the rest on to compensate for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 In terms of DCC with multiple motors, that's something I'll be finding out fairly soon, only I'll have 6 of the bu**ers to worry about! I'm hoping that a single chip, without back EMF compensation, will be OK. I'm not sure what I'm going to do if it isn't! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It also concerns me that Railflyer have a lot of pictures of items on their web site that are simply 3D renderings, and others that are plainly 3D printed. There does not seem to be much evidence that indicates their products actually exist. Without going into a lot of boring detail, I played around with those motors trying to find out if they could be used in more or less the exact same situation. This was about 2 years ago, and in the end decided there were too many problems with the concept and dropped the idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I can appreciate why Jack ID's Ashley and Myself in the OP as being traction modellers we might have a need for a self powered low floor truck, but are other modellers considering it purely for the kudos of having axle-hung motors...? I still believe O gauge is the smallest scale where you can use a beefy enough motor contained within the truck for drive, as anything available that'll fit such a HO scale application would lack the torque and slow speed required. To date, I've always been able to get a drive to fit without being too intrusive, usually by having a higher raised floor in the seating area of a Tram, or designing the rest of the vehicle body around the motor bogie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It also concerns me that Railflyer have a lot of pictures of items on their web site that are simply 3D renderings, and others that are plainly 3D printed. There does not seem to be much evidence that indicates their products actually exist. Without going into a lot of boring detail, I played around with those motors trying to find out if they could be used in more or less the exact same situation. This was about 2 years ago, and in the end decided there were too many problems with the concept and dropped the idea. they most certainly do exist, & are of good quality, those under development & for future release are clearly marked as such & can be pre-ordered, there are pictures of many which are currently available , including etched items, & even indicates current stock levels, usual disclaimers, & nothing other than a satisfied customeras a matter of interest what are the motors he's using? if of the coreless variety, low speed control shouldn't be an isue( no cogging) & presumably torque would be more than sufficient due to the number fitted? but never the less it does seem a bit like overkill Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I can appreciate why Jack ID's Ashley and Myself in the OP as being traction modellers we might have a need for a self powered low floor truck, but are other modellers considering it purely for the kudos of having axle-hung motors...? I still believe O gauge is the smallest scale where you can use a beefy enough motor contained within the truck for drive, as anything available that'll fit such a HO scale application would lack the torque and slow speed required. To date, I've always been able to get a drive to fit without being too intrusive, usually by having a higher raised floor in the seating area of a Tram, or designing the rest of the vehicle body around the motor bogie. Yes, I would agree about O gauge being the smallest you could go with self powered under-floor trucks. I also doubt there is much chance of these being used in trams or trolleys, as most trams and trolleys use much smaller wheels than the 11.6mm wheels used in the Railflyer bogies. They may be able to fit slightly smaller wheels, but the bulk of the motor is going to preclude fitting smaller wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So you haven't seen this page? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So you haven't seen this page? so Bill, are we going to see you entering the field of 4mm traction motor production?? Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So you haven't seen this page? Sure, I have been following it for years, however I was replying to the post in relation to traction applications. And while Ted's efforts are admirable, where are the commercial applications, where can I buy one? I would be quite happy to discuss my issues with these drives off-line, here is not the place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 so Bill, are we going to see you entering the field of 4mm traction motor production?? So many ideas So little time............. I would be quite happy to discuss my issues with these drives off-line, here is not the place. Why is this not the place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Sure, I have been following it for years, however I was replying to the post in relation to traction applications. And while Ted's efforts are admirable, where are the commercial applications, where can I buy one? I would be quite happy to discuss my issues with these drives off-line, here is not the place. surely this is exactly the place to discuss such things, one of Rmwebs many advantages is it gives those without the experiance & knowledge to learn & help them make more informed decissions on the pros & cons of new & often inovative products, & possibly whether to purchase them or not.I'm not sure I understand what purpose not sharing such opinion & even calling into question the very existance of another cottage industry suppliers product serves? Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Having set this hare a'running, there is an update here - http://www.modelrail...ead.php?t=26421 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 surely this is exactly the place to discuss such things, one of Rmwebs many advantages is it gives those without the experiance & knowledge to learn & help them make more informed decissions on the pros & cons of new & often inovative products, & possibly whether to purchase them or not. I'm not sure I understand what purpose not sharing such opinion & even calling into question the very existance of another cottage industry suppliers product serves? Nigel The reason I do not wish to discuss my concerns here is because it will inevitably be seen as manufacturer bashing. You have already managed to misconstrue my comments about Ted Scannell's efforts, so I feel quite justified in not 'sharing' my thoughts on this forum. As far as I am aware, Ted is not a 'cottage industry supplier', and also as far as I am aware, you cannot buy any of Ted's developments at this point in time. This is not to criticise Ted's efforts, as I said, earlier they are quite admirable. However if you look at the products I produce, there is a huge range of different style drive systems, many of them quite unique. I am constantly designing new drive systems and refining the ones I have, so it should not come as a surprise that I have experimented with drive systems that are almost identical to the Railflyer ones. However I found them seriously wanting for many reasons and decided not to put them on the market. If a specialist manufacturer of drive systems has serious misgivings about a concept....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The reason I do not wish to discuss my concerns here is because it will inevitably be seen as manufacturer bashing. You have already managed to misconstrue my comments about Ted Scannell's efforts, so I feel quite justified in not 'sharing' my thoughts on this forum. As far as I am aware, Ted is not a 'cottage industry supplier', and also as far as I am aware, you cannot buy any of Ted's developments at this point in time. This is not to criticise Ted's efforts, as I said, earlier they are quite admirable. However if you look at the products I produce, there is a huge range of different style drive systems, many of them quite unique. I am constantly designing new drive systems and refining the ones I have, so it should not come as a surprise that I have experimented with drive systems that are almost identical to the Railflyer ones. However I found them seriously wanting for many reasons and decided not to put them on the market. If a specialist manufacturer of drive systems has serious misgivings about a concept....... I never suggested Ted Scannel was a cottge industry supplier & most certainly haven't misconstrued your comments, ted scannells efforts hadn't even been mentioned at the time you said quote " there doesn't seem to be much evidence that indicates there products actually exist" refering to railflyers website! & that could be misconstrued as manufacturer bashing? Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywoodfoundry Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Nigel, Take a look at the section you quoted of my posting, the only 'possible' manufacturer referred to in that section was Ted. On that basis I would be quite likely to think you were referring to him. If you want an argument, take it elsewhere and off this site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Nigel, Take a look at the section you quoted of my posting, the only 'possible' manufacturer referred to in that section was Ted. On that basis I would be quite likely to think you were referring to him. If you want an argument, take it elsewhere and off this site. I most certainly don't wish to have an argument & about what? there is only one manufacturers product being discussed in this thread other than your own, as Ted as you rightly say, & as I know isn't one & that is Railflyer Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Topic reopened after 24 Hours. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well, I for one will look forward to an off the shelf axle hung motor arrangement, as I know that while I could build them like Ted does, for me life is too short (have a job etc), and I know Ted enjoys experimenting, whereas I want solutions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.