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Clecklewyke and the Bradford North Western Branch


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Thanks for that Ian, I didn't realise it was that big. The curves must be quite generous at 5ft so I would guess these are in the 3'6" to 4'6 region for the radius. This is interesting to me as I have a hankering for a round/oval layout and I have read that the smallest radius things  can and can't go round seems to be quoted but actual practical use seems to indicate around what you have though TimV on Clutton has it about 3ft mark. My Q6 will go down to 1m and probably below but the practical radius is what I am chasing!

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Hi Ian,

Regarding time table display, I have used a digital picture frame and power point slides. Save the power point display as a Jpeg and you can either change slides maually or have them on a timer. I prefer not to use the timed change, as things do go wrong. Hope I'm not teaching my Granny to suck eggs

 

Ian B.

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Simply stunning layout!

 

Really impressed with your west riding buildings/stonework.

The colour of the stonework looks spot on.

Do you mind if i ask how you painted the embossed stonework in detail?

 

Did you start with a black wash then use the lighter colours?

Im just curious as id like that sort of finish on my own layout im building.

 

Many thanks

 

The stonework is either embossed (Slaters, SE Finecast) or cast (Wills) plastic or expanded polystyrene (Safeprint or pizza bases) with the stonework engraved with blunt instruments.

 

West Riding stonework in 1950s towns was filthy, the golden colour of the stone being almost totally obscured by black soot, except at the mortar courses, where the softer mortar crumbled away, so I think it's fairly hard do emulate. Modern buildings do not show the same sorts of weathering. Certainly it took me a long time to come up with a simple, good-looking (to me!) method. Earlier attempts veered too much on the brown side - that soot really was BLACK!*

 

Of course Geoff Taylor is the  master in this field and his work and writings are well worth studying, although I came up with a similar method independently.

 

Essentially I wash the completed (but undetailed) building with a pale mortar colour, let that dry hard, then dry-brush the faces of the stones with black. (G.T. uses blue but I have never tried that.)

 

On the original Clecklewyke I used matt Humbrol paints, with I think "desert sand" (but it was a long time ago!) as the basic mortar colour.

 

On more recent buildings I have used Rowney's artists' acrylics. These are cheaper and more varied colours are easily developed - and the brushes are much easier to clean! I use Cadmium yellow deep hue, yellow ochre, white, burnt umbre and black. For the black dry-brushing I use either a flat brush, small sponge or even fingers, depending on the size of the area to be covered.

 

That's how I do it but I think that Coachman (who knows a thing or two about painting) uses the opposite approach, painting the dark colour first then washing the mortar colour into the mortar courses afterwards. You pays your money... (mind you I think his station is based the wrong side of the Lancashire-Yorkshire border :no: )

Thanks for that Ian, I didn't realise it was that big. The curves must be quite generous at 5ft so I would guess these are in the 3'6" to 4'6 region for the radius. This is interesting to me as I have a hankering for a round/oval layout and I have read that the smallest radius things  can and can't go round seems to be quoted but actual practical use seems to indicate around what you have though TimV on Clutton has it about 3ft mark. My Q6 will go down to 1m and probably below but the practical radius is what I am chasing!

 

The radii are varied, the minima being short stretches of about 3'6" beside the platform and behind Rice's mill, the latter because the line needs to turn through 180 degrees in an 11' wide room, as Bradford North Western was on the opposite side of the room (although that is all changing as I hope to move house soon). There really ought to be transition curves but there aren't - a bit like the original Festiniog Deviation, which was planned by an engineer whose only contact with railways must have been via Hornby Dublo.

 

Hi Ian,

Regarding time table display, I have used a digital picture frame and power point slides. Save the power point display as a Jpeg and you can either change slides maually or have them on a timer. I prefer not to use the timed change, as things do go wrong. Hope I'm not teaching my Granny to suck eggs

 

Ian B.

 

I thought hard about that sort of method but

 

a) This grandpa is no IT expert

b) I use a Macbook and it does not have Power Point (although I believe there is an equivalent)

c) I thought it would be best to show both the current train and the next two or three, so as to tempt viewers to await the next appearance of a more interesting train.

d) I also wanted to keep the headings for each column ("time", "train number", "to", "from", "loco" etc) at the top of the screen and I couldn't see an easy way of doing that.

d) time to Scalefour North was running out!

 

I think your suggestion would be the most flexible and professional way of displaying the timetable so I might do it in the future, or delegate it to someone with the appropriate skills if such a rare beast materialises in the depths of Wensleydale.  

 

Many thanks to all for the interest shown.

 

Ian

 

* As an aside, did you know that No 10 Downing Street is made from yellow London brick but it was so dirty with air-born soot that they disguised it by painting it all black. Not a lot of people know that!

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West Riding stonework in 1950s towns was filthy, the golden colour of the stone being almost totally obscured by black soot, except at the mortar courses, where the softer mortar crumbled away, so I think it's fairly hard do emulate. Modern buildings do not show the same sorts of weathering. Certainly it took me a long time to come up with a simple, good-looking (to me!) method. Earlier attempts veered too much on the brown side - that soot really was BLACK!*

 

* As an aside, did you know that No 10 Downing Street is made from yellow London brick but it was so dirty with air-born soot that they disguised it by painting it all black. Not a lot of people know that!

 

They spent most of the 1980s trying to clean West riding stone.

 

When was No10 Downing St painted black.  I've seen some colour film, WWII I think, showing it yellow.

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When was No10 Downing St painted black.  I've seen some colour film, WWII I think, showing it yellow.

I'd love to know. Someone will tell us, no doubt - the beauty of RMWeb is its eclecticism!

 

Ian

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  • 3 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Stewart, I am afraid that I have been movng house and I never noticed your posting until now.

 

Yes, Clecklewyke in its original form appeared in British Railways Modelling some years ago, I am afraid I cannot tell you when because all my magazines are still on boxes but it must have been about 7 or 8 years ago. It had some marvelous photos by Tony Wright, taken at the York show in less than ideal circumstances. Maybe there is a BRM index somewhere out there?

 

There's more about Clecklewyke on my old blog

 

Ian

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If you put that on ebay I think you should get rather more than your asking! Total bargain if you ask me. The last layout I sold was just baseboards & track. It made more than that! Can't OO stock be converted to run on P4??? 

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If you put that on ebay I think you should get rather more than your asking! Total bargain if you ask me. The last layout I sold was just baseboards & track. It made more than that! Can't OO stock be converted to run on P4??? 

I might try EBay, after all, that is where I bought it from.

 

I think the issue is that most P4 modelers like building things, not buying something ready-made - and who has room for a 22ft (plus fiddle yard!) layout? I'm not holding my breath.

 

However, even the baseboards are worth having at the price quoted. They are beautifully-made.

 

Ian

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I might try EBay, after all, that is where I bought it from.

 

I think the issue is that most P4 modelers like building things, not buying something ready-made - and who has room for a 22ft (plus fiddle yard!) layout? I'm not holding my breath.

 

However, even the baseboards are worth having at the price quoted. They are beautifully-made.

 

Ian

Ian,

 

I think that you have to present the layout more effectively. The photos don't give much idea as to the quality of the buildings, trackwork, etc. A track plan, details of the point motors, signalling, etc. would also help.

 

I bought London Road because I new it and understood how it was built and worked. I don't know enough about BNW to know whether it is a "good buy" or not (although I assume it is).

 

Sorry if this sounds a little negative, but I hope it helps,

 

Jol

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Ian,

 

I think that you have to present the layout more effectively. The photos don't give much idea as to the quality of the buildings, trackwork, etc. A track plan, details of the point motors, signalling, etc. would also help.

 

I bought London Road because I new it and understood how it was built and worked. I don't know enough about BNW to know whether it is a "good buy" or not (although I assume it is).

 

Sorry if this sounds a little negative, but I hope it helps,

 

Jol

 

 

Yes it would be good to have better photos but unfortunately the boards are in storage andf difficult to access. 
 
The point motors are Hoffman - see http://finneyandsmith.co.uk/finneyandsmith/hoffman.html - at least seven [email protected] £16.50 each from Finney and Smith. They are controlled by simple on/off switches in the control panel, which switch relays, which in turn switch 16V AC to the appropriate terminal on the point motor. (Not the way I would have done it but...)
 
There are no working signals on the layout.
 
Buildings are mostly scratch-built, mostly using brick/stone paper. I hope I am not doing the Newport Club a disservice if I said that I was planning to replace them all. The scratch-built overhead station building and the signal box are quite nice but are GW-style (not suitable for the West Riding): the back-ground, low-relied buildings are a mixture of Metcalfe (I think) kits and scratch built - of no great merit. 
 
Track is Brooke-Smith - rail soldered to rivets on ply sleepers. I like this method as it can be easily tweaked to improve gauge, clearances etc. and after a little such tweaking I got the track to work very well. Most sleepers have plastic cosmetic chairs properly attached.
 
The baseboards use the Barry Norman twin-ply beam method and are excellent - strong, square and flat.
 
If I cannot sell the layout I will probably attempt to salvage the turnouts, strip off all the buildings (you might see them yet at Scalefour North Bring and Buy!) and modify some of the baseboards for re-use on the BNW branch.
 
I hope that all helps.
 
Ian
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  • 4 weeks later...

Having moved house, Clecklewyke has had to be adapted to it into its new, smaller home. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the Bradford North Western baseboards will not fit the new room, so I am attempting to find a new home for them.

 

When exhibited, Clecklewyke comprises a 9' scenic section, with a 6' long fiddle yard at each end, in a sort of banana shape, approximately 20' long (dimensions are approximate). The new room is just 15' long, so I have added a 180 degree curved section at one end connecting Clecklewyke to its original fiddle yard in a U shape. This curved section has been modified from one built many years ago and the track at each end has had to be adjusted to connect on to the existing boards. We found at its first test that these connections still need some fettling for reliable running. I also think I might have been a bit too generous with the gauge-widening, which is necessary to get long wheelbase locos around the 3'6" minimum radii.

 

As it stands, operation is a bit limited, just running trains from one fiddle yard to the other, but we do it to a realistic timetable and communication between the fiddle yards is via proper block instruments and the drivers need to obey the signals which are controlled by the two signalmen, i.e. fiddle yard operators. So we have fun operating as realistically as we can, with a lot of imagination!

 

Here are some pictures of the revised set-up.

 

Clecklewyke:

 

post-4908-0-27539200-1416181351_thumb.jpg

 

Clecklewyke fiddle yard (with a rear view of the station buildings - life is too short to model bits which are not seen by the public:

 

post-4908-0-56514000-1416180935_thumb.jpg

 

The new U-shaped configuration with the temporary linking section in the middle. (Note "duck-under" access from doorway):

 

post-4908-0-92101900-1416181012_thumb.jpg

 

Bradford North Western fiddle yard with Clecklewyke in the background. The deck of the fiddle yard is made of the lid of the stock box, which doubles as a storage rack for stock not being used.:

 

post-4908-0-79214100-1416181061_thumb.jpg

Edited by clecklewyke
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  • 2 weeks later...

Followers of this thread will know that my aim has always been to develop a system, comprising a city terminus (Bradford North Western), a small goods sorting yard (Scargill Sidings) an MPD (Gormley Junction) and incorporating my first P4 exercise Clecklewyke, all to a fair standard of appearance and capable of being operated by several people to a realistic, fairly complex, timetable.

 

We got as far as to marry Clecklewyke with a bought-in terminus, which was never really how I imagined BNW and is far too big for the new railway room, and to extend Clecklewyke with a viaduct scene but I had to move house before we had built the MPD and sorting sidings. Now in its new, smaller home, it is clear that I will have to dispose of the unsatisfactory terminus and be less ambitious - probably no bad thing, given my advancing years and slow rate of progress!

 

However, I still want to run a variety of trains from a terminus to the rest of the world (i.e. the fiddle yard), to run light engines between the terminus and an MPD, to run goods trains, and split them into sections for different destinations (which will mostly be imaginary) - enough to keep my friends in the Cumbrian Region Area Group entertained. But the problem is that all the components needed for this are too big to fit. So, I will have to employ Iain Rice's "bitsa" approach, i.e. to build only the most interesting parts of stations MPDs, etc. Clecklewyke already fits that approach but what about the rest?

 

Well, one of the unpublished schemes that I thought of for the S4 Soc's Standard Gauge Workbench was to use the back of an MPD as a back-drop, with a coal hole, a couple of sidings on which to display locos, and connections to the main line, so that locos can go on and off the shed, The main part of the shed and its approach lines would not be modelled but be replaced for operational purposes by cassettes.

 

The penny dropped when I realised that I could do the same for Gormley Junction MPD. I already had a fine LNWR loco shed and coal hole, built by Don Rowlands, and so I am proposing to use them, together with the over-tracks station building and possibly a tall warehouse or some such, to hide the unrealistically sharp curve at the right hand end of Clecklewyke. This is aided by the fact that the tracks are at eye level, so it is relatively easy to screen views that I do not want to be seen.

 

So here are the sketches of the proposal. Please forgive the inaccuracies of these hastily drawn small scale drawings; I have drawn the scheme out at full size, so I know it all fits, honest!

 

The first shows how the new extension will fit on the right hand end of Clecklewyke. This will require minimal alteration to the existing Clecklewyke.

 

post-4908-0-53726900-1417041110_thumb.jpg

 

The second shows how the MPD components are arranged, with two connections to the down line, most of the depot invisible, and the shed, the coal hole, the station building and possibly some other buildings, arranged to suggest that the main lines and the island platform are on a much easier curve than is really the case. I think this would work well both at home and when Clecklewyke is exhibited.

 

post-4908-0-03058300-1417041341_thumb.jpg

 

The three main buildings are already built and there are no new turnouts needed. The existing fiddle yard will be re-usable with the new configuration. There will be some new low relief buildings needed - possibly using false perspective to enhance the deception - but nevertheless all in all not too big a project. It might just be completed before Clecklewyke appears at Scaleforum next year!

 

Mind you I have still to work out how to fit a new Bradford North Western and Scargill Sidings into the room!

Edited by clecklewyke
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  • 3 weeks later...

The extension, corner baseboard is now started. It is built from double-skinned beams of 4" depth, 4mm birch ply topped  by more birch ply, as advocated by Barry Norman.

 

Such a design is often described as having the benefit of lightness but I have found that such a "Barry Norman" beam is heavier than the "Cyril Freezer" 2" X 1" softwood that it has supplanted, weighing in at 178 and 133 grams respectively. However, no doubt the beams are more rigid and less likely to warp than the softwood.

 

It was erected on the kitchen unit worktop, which was the only totally flat surface I could find (don't tell SWMBO, who was away at the time).

 

Here is the underside structure with the diagonals and the framing for the curved end still to be added - 

 

post-4908-0-22366600-1418938137.jpg

 

and here are the station building, loco shed and coal hole placed in position -

 

post-4908-0-37502500-1418938182.jpg

 

and again - 

 

post-4908-0-44104300-1418938296.jpg

 

Christmas is now here, so there will probably be no progress for some time. Roll on the New Year!

Edited by clecklewyke
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  • 10 months later...

Good grief, it's nearly a year since my last posting! The last year has mostly been filled with fettling and improving the reliability of Clecklewyke, ready for exhibition at Scaleforum. I seem to have spent an age achieving very little of significance. The only obvious addition has been five vans for the Hull - Bradford fish train. This will eventually give me an excuse to re-live memories of Dairycoates B1s or K3s, both of which are on the stocks, hurtling through Ferriby, white vans bouncing around.

 

Scaleforum was a success, thanks to my co-operators Steve Griffiths and Phil Tuer. However, it was pretty demanding both of us and the layout - I always seem to break something when I exhibit and after they had unloaded Clecklewyke in Askrigg Steve and Phil had to drive up to Carlisle, which they reached in early hours of Monday. I'm now approaching 70 and have reluctantly decided that the stress of touring with Clecklewyke is too much, so Scaleforum will have been its last outing. I can now concentrate on developing the Bradford North Western branch without major diversions.

 

However it was nice to go out with a bang, in the form of the Ken York prize for scratch building, especially the viaduct. The £50 Eileen's Emporium voucher was spent very quickly!

 

post-4908-0-82101600-1446013111_thumb.jpg

 

The next phase is a new fiddle yard,which is now approaching functional completion and should be operable by November's CRAG meeting. It will comprise four cassette roads, each of which is connected to both the up and down lines via a facing crossover. Thus if we start with a train on each line we should be able to run eight trains (more if some are push-pulls or railcars) before we need to shuffle the cassettes to turn round the trains.  The up and down main lines continue beyond the fiddle yard and will form part of a continuous loop, so when not operating to a timetable I can just allow trains to circulate. Here are some pictures of it. The first shows the "throat" to the yard. To the right of this is a line for the continuous run, which will be doubled.  This will eventually be developed scenically - I am torn between just having just an embankment with an underbridge for an occupation crossing, all covered in snow like Royston Vasey, or an urban scene with trains running behind terrace houses, a chapel and the inevitable mill. The former will be much quicker!

 

post-4908-0-68017500-1446013977.jpgpost-4908-0-69076800-1446014097.jpgpost-4908-0-09389300-1446014149.jpg

 

All this has been done in the six weeks since Scaleforum. Point motors will be hidden under the removable embankment - I have decided that all working parts must be accessible. They and the turnouts have been re-cycled from Belle View and elsewhere - cheating really!

 

The next phases will be the completion of the extension to Clecklewyke shown in the previous posting, the continuous run, Bradford North Western terminus, a small goods sorting yard and then the scenics around Bradford. The aim will always to have an operable layout for the regular visits of CRAG. 

 

Ian

Edited by clecklewyke
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Hello Ian,

 

I have followed your excellent work under a former name - Brass0four (killed off because he was a big mouth pain in the arse who did nowt)

 

Unfortunately I've never actually seen the layout, being housebound due to family health issues. I only mention this because of your remark on approaching seventy. Well. I'm sixty-eight in January - believe me, I know the feeling! But it is good to plan for an unlimited future. My uncomparable toy-train layout is my only escape, bless its OTB capability.

 

One thing I will say to youngsters reading this: Do not put off till tomorrow whatever you MR dream is. Life is too short - time passes much quicker than you think and health issues are likely to compromise things as you age. Common sense? Maybe, but many off us don't realise as much till it's too late.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

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  • 1 year later...

 I can now concentrate on developing the Bradford North Western branch without major diversions.

Well, how things change!

 

When I wrote that I was not to know that within a few months my glaucoma would have advanced to the stage where I have had to stop driving, can no longer read magazines, papers or books and cannot enjoy tv as I cannot recognise faces in dramas nor see the ball in football or tennis.

 

And (back on topic) that P4 modelling is now impossible. I wonder how many other modellers have been through this and how they have coped?

 

So. what to do?

 

In short I have had to choose broad-brush modelling. Why worry about detail such as brake gear when I cannot see it? So I have gone OO, converting as much of my P4 stock as possible, buying a few OO rtr locos and going DCC.

 

The latter has been the big break through. What I have lost in sight I am making up in sound. I am using Z21, so now the basic control unit is set up increasing the number of operators is simple and free of charge. My friends will come with their smart phones, load up the Z21 App and my loco database and we will be up and running, with two signalmen and probably three drivers, one each for the up and down main lines and one on pilot duties.

 

We are having our first proper session on Thursday and I will report how we get on. BNW is still a terminus - fiddle yard in a pretty urban setting and we will still be operating a timetable based on the real Bradford Exchange schedule. We now also have a small freight sorting yard where one man will have fun breaking up incoming long distance freights and making up outbound services to local Bradford yards.

 

Here is the beginning of our timetable. You will see that under "DESC"(ription) we have the train classification and the appropriate bell code - we have full block working with home-nade block instruments based on LNWR prototypes. (But no signals -yet!)

 

post-4908-0-73913900-1486513516_thumb.jpg

 

Edited by clecklewyke
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Nothing stops play!

 

Wouldn't the Up and Down trains be odd and even numbers, you have them all as even numbers?

 

Is that a standard in Working Timetables (in railways other thanthe GWR)? It's been a long time since I perused one. (Still in boxes following the house move.) Thanks for spotting it.

 

And yes, life goes on after a fashion. I'm having the second eye done in March - I cannot fault my new consultant but the previous ones have let the damage due to high pressure go on far too long.

 

Well done for picking up the Snooze baton, or is it a red quill pen?

 

Ian 

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