Clecklewyke and the Bradford North Western Branch

[clecklewyke]

It's been over two years since the last proper operating session on the Bradford North Western branch, delayed by a house move, conversion of the layout to fit its new, smaller room and the decision to change from P4 to OO because of my failing eyesight. But it's been worth all the pain!

 

Thursday's operating session went pretty well. There were five of us, two signalmen, two drivers and one observor, and the overall scheme (based on Peter Denny's writings and our experience of operating Mike Norris'  Preston, John Holton's Lime Street and many sessions on earlier versions of Bradford North Western) worked well. and we had fun. Here is the evidence:

 

 

 

 

 

(Apologies to photographer Phil for the challenging lighting. Eventually all three scenes (Scargill sidings, Clecklewyke, BNW) will have integrated lighting.)

 

There were a few glitches -

 

the K3 disliked one of the turnouts;

there were a couple of mistakes in the timetable which led to two trains competing for the same platform and locos in the wrong place; 

the division of labour between the two operators was poor - we need job cards;

the new cassette connectors fouled some locos - I should have stuck to Chris Pendlenton's original design;

and we found some less than perfect trackwork.

 

All these will be remedied but the biggest problem was with the Z21 control system. Generally it worked very well, with beautiful slow control, but we could not work out how to export the loco database from one smart phone to another. In the end this did not matter - we just used my phone for the main line trains and set up another to control the diesel shunter and do all the shunting. This issue has been discussed in RMweb  but we were still flummoxed. Has anyone experience in this? It's fundamental to the philosophy of the layout to have several drivers.

Edited February 12, 2017 by clecklewyke

[clecklewyke]

Six months on, the glacier grinds slowly but at least there is some progress to report. I try to spend a couple of hours modelling every day but there’s not much to show for it. The problem is that the layout is now operable, either by me alone or when friends come round and this is a major distraction, which is ironic, since operating a miniature realistic re-creation of a lost world is my main objective.

 

 

So, what has been achieved?

 

The conversion of the layout to OO from P4 is now complete, there is a new fiddle yard with points controlled from a small "geographical" panel and all thepointwork for Bradford North Western is functional, albeit manually-controlled for the moment.

 

Work is progressing on restoring the Clecklewyke station area which suffered some damage during the house move and conversion to 00.

 

The other main development is the creation of a continuous double track circuit by extending the goods arrival and headshunt lines across a removable section past the door way. This is completely unprototypical and is not used for timetable operation but it does allow me to “run-in” locos and it is pleasamt to see and hear trains running when I’m working at the desk. 

 

Here is a rough signalling diagram. The track plan is fixed but I am open to suggestions, criticisms and corrections of the signalling. It is deliberately simplified - there is a dinstict lack of shunting signals. nor are there facing point locks, detector bars etc, - but it should allow trains to be run with the minimum of talking. The block bells also help 

This time I wanted to be able legitimately to run a wide range of goods trains so, since there was not enough room for a proper city-sized goods yard, I have just incorporated a few sorting  sidings which can be used for the disposal of any types of goods wagon. Shunting these can keep one operator quiet (apart from the occasional expletive) for hours!

 

The actual layout uses curved points (Marcway) to give a nice sweep to the station throat.

More photos will be posted asap but for the moment attention is switching to the preparation of Humber Dock for its swansong appearance at the Hull MRC's Exhibition on 11/12 November. See you there?

Edited October 15, 2017 by clecklewyke

[danstercivicman]

Looks like a good plan

[Coal Tank]

Very nice

[clecklewyke]

More progress will be revealed shortly but I thought I would just mention my latest thoughts on point and signal control for BNW. 

 

I want a solution that is cheap, simple to instal and maintain and will not demand much in the way of technical expertise (especially bearing in mind my poor eyesight). It must also have semaphore signals and a nice old LNWR signal box. So I had been investigating the DCC Concepts and Megapoints systems, either of which would eventually would be controlled by a lever frame.

 

But! the cost of either of these would be several hundred pounds and I was not convinced that I could master their complexity. Moreover,  both Megapoints and DCC Concepts are especially good at mimicking modern signalling systems with  geographical panels and I simp;ly don't want such sophisticating* BNW is firmly a traditional mechanically interlocked lever frame, dating from the late 19th century.

 

The penny dropped when I visited Peter Denny;s Buckingham Great Central last week. This is Buckingham's "lever frame"

 

 

 

(Photo by Stuart de Boer)

 

Above the main panel can be seen a row of some 90 sliders with round metal knobs. This is the lever frame, made from 10mm sq. timbers, about 3" long, which are attached to points and signals by wire in tube . Simple, cheap (VERY cheap compared with the electronic alternatives) easy to instal, within my technical limitations and mechanical, just like the one BNW would have in real life.

 

Other aspects which make it suitable are that nearly all my points and signals are on one baseboard and the layout is permanently installed so the few connections which need to cross a baseboard joint are not significant. The sliders are 10mm wide so if I ever get rich they could eventually be replaced by a proper lever frame such as that by the Scalefour Society, which conveniently are also at 10mm pitch.

 

Moreover, I had already built such a lever frame on my original Bradford North Western and it worked well.

 

So that's what I'm going to do!

 

Ian

 

* My best boss was a certain Frank Barratt and when we were working together on a strategy document for the new networks for Edinburgh Unversity in the 1980s he would strike out any use of the word "sophisticated" with his blue pencil.  "Sophisticated" meant expense and unreliability!

Edited May 25, 2018 by clecklewyke

[clecklewyke]

I find it very difficult to prioritise what I do on the railway. The list of necessary jobs seems infinite - track, signals, controls, wiring, locos, wagons, coaches, buildings, civiI engineering, scenery, timetable, operating instructions, research (that should have come at the beginnIng of the list!), write-ups for RMWeb etc., etc…

 

And then there’s the problem that the more complete the layout becomes the more its operation becomes attractive. And there’s a justification for that as one needs to test and rehearse for when the “boys” come round or an exhibition deadline looms.

 

Here's a picture of me playing with someone else's trainset. I'd love to have produced even a fraction of this!

 

 

 

So - what to do?

 

Bradford North Western is essentially planned for a team of operators to run trains to a realistic timetable in a believable setting which reflects the geograohy and architecture of its imaginary location, i.e. the West Yorkshire mill towns. All these aspects are of equal importance so I am trying to progress on all these fronts at an equal pace. Thus I have recently been:

 

1. fettling the track to improve running,
2. building the station roof
3. building a “lever frame” and associated gubbins, to control points and (eventually) signals 
4. mocking up some mills and terraced housing to form a 3D townscape background for the terminus
5. (occasionally) playing trains - I just love shunting the sorting sidings with my beautifully slow-running diesel shunter and watching trains steadily circulating. 

 

That’s the justification but in reality I easily get bored so I need to be able to alternate between several activities so I invite you to watch this space to see how I get on.

 

Ian

 

[DougN]

Ian, 

 

No doubt you have read what I have decided to do as I was not doing enough modelling or if I was, I certainly didn't have enough of things I started finished!  So rather than making a list and ticking things off. I set myself a challenge of finishing 1 thing per month. (OK a couple of riders, I work full time (55+hrs a week) and have teenaged kids and a partner all of which need time also !) So as this was set up this year and we are now in the 6th month... I am just about achieving the objective! So far this has resulted in a 6 wheel coach painted and running, a 3 way point and single slip (should that be 2?) a metcalf shop kit  and then a metcalf house kit , Last month I started a NER 6 wheel luggage van but this hasn't made it to being finished. This is all random and generally pulled out of the part completed collection of stuff.

 

It has also resulted in more satisfaction as things are getting finished, and also more encouragement to get part completed items done as they are quicker than starting new things! I hope at the end of the year to have a better collection of finished things on layouts than a collection of boxes of stuff. 

 

A friend of mine is amazed at how I find the time to do these things. I find this interesting, as I guess I want to use my spare time more effectively as I have a relatively small amount of it! 

 

Give it a try. See what works for you

[Tim V]

I built one of those wooden lever frames about 40 years ago(!). I found the home made switches were unreliable, so upgraded them to microswitches, much better. Just about see them in this picture.

[clecklewyke]

I built one of those wooden lever frames about 40 years ago(!). I found the home made switches were unreliable, so upgraded them to microswitches, 

 

Hi, Tim.

 

PD's lever frame seems to be reliable, as was the sliding key frame I made for my original BNW. However, Tony Gee does say that the railway is more reliable the more it is operated, which he puts down to the sliding electrcal contacts scraping themselves clean as they are moved. 

 

 It is relevant that Buckingham is operated twice a week by Tony's team.

 

Peter used brass or copper nails as contacts with phosphor-bronze scrapers.I am proposing to use strong copper-clad board (of which I just happen to have a wee stock) with  scrapers made of .phosphor-bronze (of the type used for loco pickups). These will just be used for the few remote signals which will be solenoid operated.

 

 Marcway points don't in theory need switching but the occasional need for this will be met by using "Frog Juicers" or equivalent.

 

Ian.

Edited June 8, 2018 by clecklewyke

[clecklewyke]

Ian, 

 

No doubt you have read what I have decided to do as I was not doing enough modelling or if I was, I certainly didn't have enough of things I started finished!  So rather than making a list and ticking things off. I set myself a challenge of finishing 1 thing per month. (OK a couple of riders, I work full time (55+hrs a week) and have teenaged kids and a partner all of which need time also !) So as this was set up this year and we are now in the 6th month... I am just about achieving the objective! So far this has resulted in a 6 wheel coach painted and running, a 3 way point and single slip (should that be 2?) a metcalf shop kit  and then a metcalf house kit , Last month I started a NER 6 wheel luggage van but this hasn't made it to being finished. This is all random and generally pulled out of the part completed collection of stuff.

 

It has also resulted in more satisfaction as things are getting finished, and also more encouragement to get part completed items done as they are quicker than starting new things! I hope at the end of the year to have a better collection of finished things on layouts than a collection of boxes of stuff. 

 

A friend of mine is amazed at how I find the time to do these things. I find this interesting, as I guess I want to use my spare time more effectively as I have a relatively small amount of it! 

 

Give it a try. See what works for you

Doug,

thank you for these suggestions. It's always a problem finding time for all the things that you need (or want) to do.

 

Our situations are rather different in that I'm retired. This has otyh advantages and disadvantages.

 

In theory I have more spare time than when I was working but it is unstructured time, so I try to maintain a routine which allows me to get at least a couple of hours on the railway every day.

 

The disadvantages are that I am a much slower worker than I was and I am acutely aware that time is running out. Sorry to bring such a depressing thought to the table but it is true. I have friends who to me seem to have set themselves unrealistic ambitions, which I suspect they will never achieve.

 

So I am setting my sights pretty low and hope in a couple of years to have a well-running layout that looks good (according to my particular criteria) and which my friends can also enjoy. Which means that one project per month is far too slow.

 

Oh to be young again!

 

Ian

Edited June 8, 2018 by clecklewyke

[DougN]

Ian as from the above, I think you could change my one a month to one a week!

 

This is all naval gazing really. I am one of the younger members in the 2 groups I am involved with. I was discussing this exact topic with another member last year, we came to the conclusion that people lasted longer in life if they always had things to do... places to be and aims in life. We identified 2 members who have passed away quickly once their magnum opus was completed from their point of view.

 

Therefore we decided always to always have a project on the go. I have even noticed this with my parents who have recently retired. My mother completed her PHd.... then they both went down hill. Thankfully they are now creating their to do lists as they both have the energy and health to go and do other things... it is one thing as I get older I am noticing the busy people have a enthusiasm to just do things! Even my grandmother who passed away 3 years ago at almost 93... always had things to go do, volunteer.... even down to her last week... she was busy though her health was really bad.

 

So back to what your up too make that challenge to yourself... but keep doing it!

[clecklewyke]

At last, some evidence of progress. We'll dispense with boring bits sch as track-fettling and concentrate on the new lever frame and station roof. 

 

First, the lever frame, which is based on Peter Denny's design. It comprises 3" long strips of 12mm sq timber (I wanted 10mm sq but the local timber yard did not have it) interleaved with strips of 5 thou plasticard. The red keys are for signals, the black for points and the uncoloured are spare - I might want to add connections to an MPD later. The base is 5mm plywood.  

 

 

The completed frame. Knobs are upholstery nails and the connections to the wire in tube are mild steel wire (paper clips!) attached to the piano wire by electrical connectors, which will allow adjustment. Simple and costing pence!

 

 

 

The station roof is beginning to take shape. It is based loosely on Manchester Mayfield. The main lattice girders are by Plastruct. I will omit all the fine trusses as these would be invisible from our eye-level viewing position (and they would be very fiddly to make - remember I am adopting a broad brush approach as I simply cannot do fine work any more). The individual sections of the roof will simply lift off to gain access but I am hoping my version of S&W couplings will work well with the permanent magnets installed between the sleepers.

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by clecklewyke

[DougN]

Well there you go Ian, off doing things.

 

This weekend I dug out a Scalefour lever frame I started so many years ago it is lost in time! So far 1 lever is totally finished with number and lock installed... another 3 which are closer too. Of course one I managed to solder solid....grrr..... it is a bank of 10 levers. So other than putting the other 5 levers together... I would say about 3 hours more and it will be useable. One challenge which is unexpected from the UK to Australia was finding the right micro switches so off I went to Jaycar which is Australia's electronic bits type shop.. found some that looked right! Other than not having a roller on the end... I managed to roll the lever to make them work. Interestingly the holes in the switches matched exactly the lever frames!

[clecklewyke]

Well there you go Ian, off doing things.

 

This weekend I dug out a Scalefour lever frame I started so many years ago it is lost in time! So far 1 lever is totally finished with number and lock installed... another 3 which are closer too. Of course one I managed to solder solid....grrr..... it is a bank of 10 levers. So other than putting the other 5 levers together... I would say about 3 hours more and it will be useable. One challenge I alswhich is unexpected from the UK to Australia was finding the right micro switches so off I went to Jaycar which is Australia's electronic bits type shop.. found some that looked right! Other than not having a roller on the end... I managed to roll the lever to make them work. Interestingly the holes in the switches matched exactly the lever frames!

 

I also hve a Scalefour Soc lever frame.. It took me hours to complete with lots of fettling required but I needed a bigger frame - some 20 levers plus spares - and I thought the connection between ther lever and the turned handle was weak. The PD design, with 23 levers has taken about three hours to complete.

 

 

Now for the wire-in-tube connections...

 

Ian

[Tim V]

Are you sure that's 5 thou? Looks more like 20 thou - 0.5mm?

[clecklewyke]

Are you sure that's 5 thou? Looks more like 20 thou - 0.5mm?

 

You're quite right Tim. I just used what I had and my memory is pretty poor.

 

 

Of course the actual thickness is not very critical to thr working of the lever frame/

 

Cheers,

 

Ian

[Tim V]

5 thou would probably wrinkle in use. The 20 thou would form a frictionless (!) edge to the levers, but not wrinkle.

[t-b-g]

Lovely to see! You do need a bit of friction in the mechanism as that is all that holds the levers in position, either end of the travel.

 

When people talk to me about Peter Denny, it often surprises them just how quickly his methods produced results and it is quite fascinating to see that put to the test.

[clecklewyke]

Lovely to see! You do need a bit of friction in the mechanism as that is all that holds the levers in position, either end of the travel.

 

The friction can be varied by changing the number or thickness of the plasricard spacers. All the keys and spacers "float" so all the keys have the same lateral force and hence friction - very neat!

 

Ian

[DougN]

I also hve a Scalefour Soc lever frame.. It took me hours to complete with lots of fettling required but I needed a bigger frame - some 20 levers plus spares - and I thought the connection between ther lever and the turned handle was weak. The PD design, with 23 levers has taken about three hours to complete.

 

 

Now for the wire-in-tube connections...

 

Ian

 

Your right there is a lot of work in them... which is part of the reason why they have languished in the back of a random box for years. This is part of my target to get things finished for use or running. I am getting quicker with each lever. One thing I have been doing is opening out the drilled hole in the handle by clamping in a vice and progressively opening the hold with larger drill bits in a dremel. I have opened them up to 1.4mm so far and I think I might try for 1.6mm which leaves more of the lever to attach it too! 

[clecklewyke]

Your right there is a lot of work in them... which is part of the reason why they have languished in the back of a random box for years. This is part of my target to get things finished for use or running. I am getting quicker with each lever. One thing I have been doing is opening out the drilled hole in the handle by clamping in a vice and progressively opening the hold with larger drill bits in a dremel. I have opened them up to 1.4mm so far and I think I might try for 1.6mm which leaves more of the lever to attach it too! 

 

Doug, what you need for enlarging holes gradually is a set of tapered cutting broaches such as these

 

Ian

[DougN]

Ahhh but these are the blind holes in the turned tops to the levers. I do have a couple of sets of tapered broaches which get a real work out when I am etched kit building! In fact it is one set of tools I would not do without.

 

Interestingly I have been seeing how many tools I am using, or how few in reality I have been using. Managed about 20mins which I am very happy about considering usually on a work day I don't get the opportunity or have the energy to go and do it! I have done 4 of the levers now to have the top handle turnings installed and start cleaning them up. Only 6 more to go.

[clecklewyke]

I,ve spent far longerfettling those terrible Markway points than I expected. They really are not fit for purpose.

 

However, we are beginning to get some reasonable running and there have been a few other developments to report. Yesterday “the boys” I.e. S4Soc CRAG came round and we had an enjoyable running session. It was enlivened by the unexpected appearance of an A4 on a football special, seen below * crossing the canal at Clecklewyke. It seems that Doncaster had rostered Woodcock to haul the train carrying supporters of Bradford Park Avenue to Wembley and back for their team’s one and only appearance in the FA cup final. For the record PA lost 4-1 to Manchester United.

 

*  It will be seen just as soon as I can work out hot to attach a photo with this annoying new software.

 

grrrr.....

Edited February 15, 2019 by clecklewyke

[clecklewyke]

Here she is. She looked, performed and sounded wonderful. At rest thee was that lovely burbling sound of steam under pressure, which took us back to York in our teens. Then that chime whistle which made us shout “streak!” and scamper to the other end of the platform to see if it was  a “cop”. DCC made for a really smooth start with a superb rendering of that characteristic, slightly syncopated beat.

 

 

 

We are blessed to have such models available, ready to run.

[south_tyne]

19 hours ago, clecklewyke said:

I,ve spent far longerfettling those terrible Markway points than I expected. They really are not fit for purpose.

 

However, we are beginning to get some reasonable running and there have been a few other developments to report. Yesterday “the boys” I.e. S4Soc CRAG came round and we had an enjoyable running session. It was enlivened by the unexpected appearance of an A4 on a football special, seen below * crossing the canal at Clecklewyke. It seems that Doncaster had rostered Woodcock to haul the train carrying supporters of Bradford Park Avenue to Wembley and back for their team’s one and only appearance in the FA cup final. For the record PA lost 4-1 to Manchester United.

 

*  It will be seen just as soon as I can work out hot to attach a photo with this annoying new software.

 

grrrr.....

 

Wonderful modelling. I have learned a lot by reading through the whole thread. Thank you for sharing. As someone who has family in Bradford, and is a regular visitor, I think you have done a great job in capturing the atmosphere of the local area.

 

Sorry to hear of your trials with the Marcway points. I take it you would not use them again based on this experience? That's definitely not a loaded question, intending to promote criticism, as I know lots of people use them successfully, just interested in your personal experience. 

 

Love the photo below  Topical for FA Cup weekend! Bradford PA are going great guns this season. With any luck we may see them taking another step back towards the football league with promotion this season. 

 

Cheers,

David