Gallows Close Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Hello RMWebbers, With my layout Kinsley Colliery in warm storage in the railway room after a house move, I decided to put the poor summer weather to use with a rolling stock project. I was looking at the Bachmann 2EPB and wondered if it might be possible to convert a pair of them in to a class 307 EMU. The link below is to Chris Booth's Flickr site, and a photo of 307130 in MetroTrain red - Perfect for complimenting my class 308 and 321 models. http://www.flickr.co...N05/5553226273/ I duly ordered up two EPB's and a Bachmann Mk I suburban coach in order to work out what needed to be done. The main issues to overcome are as below:- 1. Move the guards van to the rear of one of the driving trailers and create a pantograph well 2. Use the Mk I suburban to create a motor coach from one of the driving brake coaches - The Bachmann power bogies are correct for the class 307 3. Use the other end of the Mk I suburban to create a trailer second lavatory coach from the other driving brake. 4. Insert a toilet compartment in to the second driving trailer coach - I think I'll use the large windows from a Mk I BG for this. 5. Mount the trailer coaches on B4 bogies, and correct the ride height. 6. Correct the cab fronts by removing the headcode box and repositioning the jumper cables. All in all, I think this should work out OK. Now I just need to get cracking. Thanks for looking in, Chris. Edited July 18, 2012 by Gallows Close 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 You might want to look at using a replica suburban coach. The baccy is the 9 compartment 57 ft person. The replica is the correct 64 ft 10 compartment version you will need. If you want to know what you can do with the replica bits to make the mk1 emu's, put a serch in here for 4epb/replica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Look forward to seeing this develop based on the excellent work you have done on the 210 and 321. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I like this idea, i suppose you've only bought the short all 2nd as a donor of two inside ends and some compartment sides? Very clever. Of course apart from the re-positioning of the side window layouts, you'll also have to alter some for the ones that lost their doors in the "refurbished" or second rebuild condition. I always fancied doing an original 1500v dc version with a diamond panto on a middle coach or else a first rebuild to Kv version, if i can get my head around what needs to be swapped, theorectically it should be easier than doing this one, i can keep the bogies for a start. These units have to be the Ugly Ducklings of the EMU world! Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Hello RM Webbers, It has taken longer than I thought to get started with the class 307, but at last I have begun! You might want to look at using a replica suburban coach. The baccy is the 9 compartment 57 ft person. The replica is the correct 64 ft 10 compartment version you will need. If you want to know what you can do with the replica bits to make the mk1 emu's, put a serch in here for 4epb/replica. Hi Cheesysmith, thanks for the tip. I actually went for the Bachmann coach to be sure that the body side profile would be a perfect match, and as Brian says below I only need to use the 57 footer as a donor coach. you've only bought the short all 2nd as a donor of two inside ends and some compartment sides? Very clever. Of course apart from the re-positioning of the side window layouts, you'll also have to alter some for the ones that lost their doors in the "refurbished" or second rebuild condition. Yes. The alteration of the refurb windows will be accomplished with spare compartments from the short coach - the seating comes in handy too, and the toilet window will come from sections of a Mk I full brake. The large guard's windows are perfect for the toilets and the large compartment window on the refurb class 307. My disappointment comes from the fact that the suburban coach is not flush glazed. I will rectify this with Replica flush glaze. Tonight I made a go of the MSO. This is the most plain of the four coaches, and contrary to my normal practise of beginning with the hardest bit I opted for what I hope will be the simplest. First I dismantled the 2EPB Driving Motor Brake. I kept the lighting, glazing and all the other goodies for later. The roof looks like the ventilators are a push in item. I will therefore push them out for re-use and rub the roof down smooth in due course. The idea is to cut off the cab and brake compartment and replace with compartments from the suburban coach. The roof from the suburban coach also needs to be removed, to allow re-use of the original 2 EPB roof. And now a trial fit on the powered underframe. The gap is too large due to the metal undeframe being shaped to fit the original profile of the cab. This will need to be filed smooth before I make another check fit and glue the two halves together. This looks like a good job for the weekend, so for now thanks for looking in, Chris. Edited August 2, 2012 by Gallows Close 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 An EMU project, hurrah! A West Yorkshire-related project, hurrah! A project involving chopping up RTR models to make them into something more interesting, hurrah! That's three cheers from me; keep up the good work. Also enjoyed looking at your earlier 321 and 150 projects but the weird DEMU contraption was before my time Cheers, Will PS. Very jealous as I'd like to get stuck into a project like this but I've been assigned to various DIY tasks around the house for the next few weeks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Thanks for the hip-hip-hooray Will - Much appreciated. Here is the assembled MSO (motor Second Open). I filed away quite a bit of the chassis blockat the former cab end to get a snug fit for the body. The roof is a rough fit at the moment. I have removed the ventilators for later, and rubbed down the rest of the EPB roof ready for re-fitting. I also had to trim the roof at the former cab end so it sits flush, and thin the profile down to match the other end. I will glue this to the body once the gangway ends are finalised. The gangway ends will be batch done, as I'll need to accomodate the low corridor connection by the pantograph well, and batch fabrication will ensure consistency here. The MSO sits on two motor bogies, of which one is powered as per Bachmann, and the second is a trailer only with power pick up. This was taken from the other powered driving car purchased at the start. Next I'm planning to tackle the DTBSO (Driving trailer brake second open). This car is the pantograph coach. Thanks for looking in, Chris. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hi Chris. I've just re-aquainted myself with this thread. I must say that although I know nothing much about EMU's, the conversion here is a smashing project and I'll be following your progress with interest. Cheers. Sean. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 Hello RM Webbers, I thought I'd outline how I intend to make the Driving Trailer Brake. A link to the 80's Rail website shows a side view of the DTBSO from 307120 in 1985, this should show what I'm trying to achieve. http://80srail.zenfo...90684#h28b90684 The 80's Rail website is excellent by the way. For both of the driving cars I will use the non-brake coaches from the 2 EPB, therefore for the DTBSO I have this to work with. Basically the rear two compartments need to be removed and the brake end installed. The roof above needs to be altered to make a pantograph well - but more of that in a later post. This is intended to outline only the sides at this time. I intend to cut the two components along the red line. The door and the compartment window immediately left of the cut on the top bodyshell in the picture will be filled, and on the lower bodyshell the cab end will go, and the van end on the right will be cut to fit with the end of the upper body. That should make a DTBSO! With the new sides made, I will then tackle to roof and pantograph well. Thanks for looking in, Chris. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Hi Chris. I've just re-aquainted myself with this thread. I must say that although I know nothing much about EMU's, the conversion here is a smashing project and I'll be following your progress with interest. Cheers. Sean. Ditto what Sean has said. Always worth "looking in". Hope you and yours are all well by the way. Best wishes, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Hello RM Webbers, I just noticed how long it is since I did anything with the Class 307 - August last year Over the last couple of days I have been busy finishing off the driving trailer brake. This involved moving the guard's van from behind the cab to the other end of the unit. A pantograph well has then been created above the van area. All joints are glued using plastic weld, as this gives a strong bond and allows some repositioning time. Getting the two parts square is of paramount importance. With this completed I was able to fill the two surplus windows on each side. I place a thin piece of plasticard behind each window to be filled and once set, I fill with Superfine Milliput. After a good long hardening time I then rub down with P180 Wet & Dry, before finishing with a finer grade. With the pantograph well created I needed to make a new end for the coach. This was again done with plasticard - At this time I have not fitted the gangways, as I want to make them all batch style to ensure consistency. The pantograph itself will get a makeover in a future post. The roof was sanded smooth after carefully salvaging the air horns and ventilators for refitting later. Finally I tackled the cab front. I have removed all of the furniture from the EPB to get down to a basic front end to which I can add the new M/W gear for the Class 307. I'll also need to fabricate marker lights and a destination blind. This is how it looks so far. I must sort out the ride height, as it sits quite high on the B4 bogies. I photographed it today in the company of the other coaches. I have been busy using the same techniques to create the other coaches - more of which to come. Thanks for looking in, Chris. 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Hello All, I've been continuing to work on the driving car, in particular the cab front. Uppermost in my mind was the need to change the face of the unit from the EPB design to the rather distinctly ugly front of the class 307. Most obvious - once all the EPB jumper cables were removed - was the plated over centre headcode box. For this I carefully popped out the plastic headcode insert and removed the window frame and rainstrip with a scalpel blade. I then refitted the insert and glued it in to place. The whole cab front area was sanded smooth to remove the unwanted raised detail remaining from the EBP, taking care to preserve the driver's and second man's window frames. I then fitted a destination blind. This is an etched brass DC Kits one, simply glued in to the correct postion. The MW boxes were next. After some thought, I came up with an old Lima class 87 body shell long consigned to the spares box. The MW boxes were carefully cut from the body and tidied up before fitting to the new cab front. Finally, I have added the two headlights and the solitary tail light. These have been made from slivers of plastic rod glued in position. After allowing to fully set, they have been carefully hollowed out with a drill bit to give them a dished appearance. I have given the cab a quick squirt of undercoat to see where I need to focus my filler, and as you can see the former headcode box needs some attention. Thanks for looking in, Chris. Edited February 19, 2013 by Gallows Close 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodshaw Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Some excellent work in this thread. I've only been on this forum for a year or so and have only just picked up on it. I remember Gallows Close appearing in Model Rail in early 2000 and it was such a good article I cut it out and kept it - still have it in fact. It was one of the layouts which inspired me to have a go myself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Thank you Rod. Gallows Close, now there are some memories. It is hard to imagine it is over fifteen yaers ago that I began building that model. I wish I still had it. Best wishes, Chris. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Hello All, The latest update will focus on creating first the trailer second open lavatory (TSOL) and the driving trailer second open lavatory (DTSOL) in what are the last structural major changes to the EPB bodies to create the class 307 cars. First up the TSOL. This coach was created in the same way as the MSO earlier in the thread. The redundant cab and guard's van being removed and two compartments from the donor Mk I coach spliced on. With the coach re-assembled the windows requiring blanking off were filled and allowed to set. One feature of this coach is that on one side a complete compartment has been plated over - presumably during the 1984 refurb. I know not why, and would appreciate knowing the seating layout of the refurbished coaches if anyone can help please. http://80srail.zenfolio.com/p575280184/h339e4118#h339e4118 Here is the coach, with the correct windows blanked. On the other side is a toilet compartment, so the two seating bay windows were blanked, together with the door frame. The door was then opened out to the dimensions of the toilet window. Next, the DTSOL received the same treatment. During the 1984 refurb the second compartment door counting from the driver's cab was removed and replaced with a plain window. The first class section was relocated here from the trailer second during that time. The West Yorkshire units were of course all standard, but the window layout remained. The redundant door was cut from the bodyshell, and a window bay taken from one of the spare cabs was cut and spliced in to the coach side. The larger windows needed for the toilet and the seating bay oposite it are yet to be opened out., and will be done as before. With these tasks finished, the work becomes pretty dull on the bodywork, focussing on re-assembly, filling and priming. There is of course plenty going on below the solebar, and the pantograph bay will be getting a post in the near future. Thanks for looking in, Chris. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted February 24, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) great work chris, all this filling and filing will be worth it soon i think! re: the TSOL, the blank panel was, as you know, oppsite the toilet - the diagram shows this side to have luggage shelves, hence the lack of window. re-furbed diagram drawings at: http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Diagram_Book_210_for_Issue.pdf the TSOL is on page 296 - the others are there too, but notice the drawings for each class are not grouped together. rather the book goes through the vehicles of all classes by vehicle type. MS - p.78, DTC - p.204, BDTBS - p. 412 interestingly, the diagram drawing of the DTC end hasn't been changed from the 5-marker light system! Edited February 24, 2013 by keefer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Thank you very much Keefer. That book is a treasure trove, and extremely useful. The class 307 drawings are labelled as refurb during 1981, whereas Wiki has the upgrade down for 1984. Maybe the retention of the five marker lights was taken from a pilot refurb? Anyway, most interesting. I'll line up a post to cover the interiors and the creation of the lavatory compartments in due course. Maybe I'll combine it with the pantograph post - Pots & Pans.... Best wishes, Chris. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted February 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2013 just shows you may have the info you need and official diagram drawings, but you still need pics to be absolutely sure! the 5-marker light shown for the DTC ends was relevant to when they were first introduced! - http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/6841209933/ (just noticed that, unusually they had low-level brake pipes at the same time as buckeyes/rubbing plates) - don't know for sure, but they probably lost it when they were converted to 25kV ac, when they gained the 4-character headcodes - http://www.flickr.com/photos/86020500@N06/7948157998/ also the DTC diagram not only shows 2 blank panels on the nearside - one should have windows in the 1st. class section, t'other is the toilet window - but they seem to have omitted a door on each side from the first 1st.class bay next to the toilet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 A lot of the BR diagrams have errors. Really this sort of drawing is useless for building models from. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) These type of drawings are General Arrangement drawings, and have their uses. The original question was what was behind the blanked off compartment on the TS. In that respect the drawings are most helpful. I think it is fairly safe to assume that a luggage rack stands in that spot. As for other aspects requireing modelling, these drawings are an aid, but not definitive. As always, gather as much information about the model you are trying to create before you start if you can - photos are key. As for building the model itself, Bachmann did that for me - I'm only moving the windows around. Cheers, Chris. Edited February 26, 2013 by Gallows Close 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2013 These type of drawings are General Arrangement drawings, and have their uses. The original question was what was behind the blanked off compartment on the TS. In that respect the drawings are most helpful. I think it is fairly safe to assume that a luggage rack stands in that spot. As for other aspects requireing modelling, these drawings are an aid, but not definitive. As always, gather as much information about the model you are trying to create before you start if you can - photos are key. As for building the model itself, Bachmann did that for me - I'm only moving the windows around. Cheers, Chris. Hi Chris On refurbishment of the GE and LTSR units the old TCL was converted to a TSOL. Note on the diagram linked by Keefer the end with 3 seating bays are wider spaced from when it was the first class end of the coach. From travelling in them there was an unused luggage rack opposite the toilet. I agree about the use of BR diagrams, they are a great aid when there are no other drawings available. That is why I have shared my older BR EMU diagrams with the Barrowmore Group http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BREMUDiagramsIssue.pdf I look forward to seeing your "Liverpool St-Southend" unit completed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 Thank you Clive. The Barrowmore Group was up until yesterday unknown to me, but I'm rather pleased that they are able to host these books online. I'm also looking forward to seeing the unit finished, but it might be a little while yet. Best wishes, Chris, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted February 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2013 it might take a while chris, but if you keep on as you're doing so far, then the result will be worth it. clive pointed out that three bays of seating in the TS are to the former 1st. class seat pitch, but i've just noticed that the 1st. class sections of the DTC have the shortest seat pitches of the whole unit! (but then again the seats are 2+2 instead of 3+2) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallows Close Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 So, it seems I was quite accurate when I said it might be a little while yet! Just over half a year and I have a new update on the Class 307. The unit is now reassembled and in undercoat. There are a couple of small spots remaining that require some sanding down with wet and dry, but in principal she's ready for the paint shop. I'm hoping to get it through the paint shop over the next couple of weeks, and I'll be turning my thoughts to the pantograph. My chosen unit 307130 carried a Stone Faiveley AMBR type pan until the end so I've picked up a Sommerfeldt one to fit. I will be giving some attention to the base and contact strip before it is added to the unit. The base will be made up to the standard BR base using bullhead rail, and the contact strip will be made more representative of the type with brass wire and strip. Also on the list is the underframe. I couldn't resist seeing how the whole thing looks on the rails. I have put a before and after below. During the last months I have not neglected the DMUs for my layout. I picked up a batch of cheap Bachmann class 150s with a view to standardising this drive train across my class 15X fleet. So far I have converted a class 153 from Hornby to the Bachmann drive and bogies, and I have done a prototype conversion on one of my Lima class 156s. I wanted to see if it was possible to use the underframe parts to re-build the Lima solebar as well as repower. All in all to update a 25 year old model I think it has turned out OK. First photo is standard Lima (front) and rebuild (rear), the two after that are of the new underframe. I have scratch built the fuel tanks, and the rest is either from the class 150 or salvaged from the old Lima underframe. Here is is the complete unit. Lastly, I have finally finished my class 308. This has been awaiting glazing for literally years. I have used Replica flush glaze to finish the kit. I also repowered it with the spare motor from EPB unit used for the class 307 project. Thanks for looking in, Chris. 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Smashing work! A really interesting read. The 156's look much much better with a decent underframe! Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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