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LONGHARTLEY - BR(NE) early 60's


Toftwood

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I have decided to start this topic as I now have my Railway room back in operation after having one corner of the ceiling repaired after a leak.

I have a space of 10' x 6' available across the end of the room which leaves me with space to have all the other accumulated 'stuff' at the other along with a workbench.

I have looked and looked at plans and drawn and drawn other plans, but I came down to two that i liked. Now I would like to fit Newcastle Central, the bridges, river and all of Gateshead Shed in to may available space.......but common sense prevailed. I wanted to see main line expresses hauled by Gresleys finest and plenty of coal. I was taken by Model Rail mags Bolsover and seven pit lane which would provide the required traffic. I am also a fan of Ian Rice designs. His design in Main Lines for Modest Spaces for 'Milton Junction' also it the spot. With this one I get a main line, a branch and a colliery line in to the bargain. His plan was for 12' x 8'. Could it be contracted to fit my space. Well i did some drawing and hopefully below is haw the plan came out. Now this is only at the first stage. There are things I might change to suit my beginners skills.

Does this fit? I would use min rad of 22" ie 4th rad.

 

Any thoughts???

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The setting for the totally ficticious Longhartley is somewhere north of the Tyne, possibly an off-shoot from the Main line, with the colliery branch feeding the staithes at Blyth. The other branch would be similar to that feeding the likes of Alnwick etc. So the usual east coast racehorses and 5 on, with examples of those freight types shedded at North/South Blyth to cover the coal traffic. A DMU or V3 and a couple of non- corridor stock for the branch.

 

The colliery branch would be worked by an ex BR J94 now in private hands. On the Rice plan, the area to the top left shows a single road shed and coal/watering facilities. I would have thought that the Colliery Loco would have been housed at the colliery?? So what to put in its place? The 'Colliery' will just be a cassette located above and to the back of the traverser fiddle yard.

 

I might consider doing away with the road underbridge and substitute it with a Level Xing, as there were (and are still) many on the main line. That would make the baseboard building a little easier.

 

As always your comments etc gratefully appreciated.

 

Pete

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Nice one a layout from up home!! if you are running Alnwick trains maybe a couple of D20's plenty of J27's.I'm more of the Durham coalfied but am I right in thinking Blyth had a few BR standards in the later days of steam? will be keeping an eye on this thread.

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Defo plenty of J27s if I can get some anywhere????? eh Hornby/Bachmann/Dapol etc. I would have thought all the D20s would have gone by the early 60s? The two Blyth sheds had a mottley collection around then, Ivatt Class4 moguls, K3s, J27s, and so on.

 

I have stashed away awaiting the chance to run, an A1,A2, 2xA3, 3XA4,V2, K3, Ivatt 4,J39, V1 &V3, D49, and various others.

 

I did wonder about doing a coastal scene, down near Hartlepool, maybe just a watch the trains go by style of layout with the coastline as the outer edge?

 

Hmm maybe next time....

 

Pete

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That looks very attractive - in fact I know someone who'd bite your arm off for this layout. However a couple of practical snags occur to me:

 

1) Are those exchange sidings really going to fit as drawn after you've taken care of the NCB embankment and the necessary clearances? I'd be tempted to move them to the space in the top left.

 

2) It looks like your goods sidings are going to be tricky to work - ideally they'd face the other way so the engine of an anticlockwise train could shunt them directly. As you have them it would be trapped once it had wiggled in through the headshunt.

 

I did wonder about doing a coastal scene, down near Hartlepool, maybe just a watch the trains go by style of layout with the coastline as the outer edge?

 

I've always fancied this arrangement (force-fed too many pictures of Ryhope Grange I guess). Leave a small gap between the layout and the backscene and you could concoct all sorts of indirect lighting effects from below.

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That looks very attractive - in fact I know someone who'd bite your arm off for this layout. However a couple of practical snags occur to me:

 

1) Are those exchange sidings really going to fit as drawn after you've taken care of the NCB embankment and the necessary clearances? I'd be tempted to move them to the space in the top left.

 

2) It looks like your goods sidings are going to be tricky to work - ideally they'd face the other way so the engine of an anticlockwise train could shunt them directly. As you have them it would be trapped once it had wiggled in through the headshunt.

 

 

 

I've always fancied this arrangement (force-fed too many pictures of Ryhope Grange I guess). Leave a small gap between the layout and the backscene and you could concoct all sorts of indirect lighting effects from below.

 

Thanks Simon..... :sungum: Yes I can see what you mean. The original plan only had two exchange siidings. I will have a look what space I have . As for the Goods yard, hmm yes I could rejig itso that icomes off the other end of the Platform. Would it be better to run into a head shunt and then licick back into the yard or just have a point so that the train would straight reverse into the yard. I suppose the former would be more prototypical as it would clear the main line and allow shunting whilst the main was occupied. I will redraw the plan and see what it looks like.

 

Pete

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This looks like an excellent basis for a layout. I remember the J27s taking coal down to Blyth staithes and the NER stone stations are lovely. There's a super example here at Askrigg.

 

If you need a bit more space you could try a vertical train stacker. These are described by Iain Rice in a couple of his layout design books (the Wild Swan and Haynes books) and look to be easy to construct. (I'm planning one for Bradford North Western but in a couple of years time.) I frankly would not recommend a horizontal traverser for a continuous layout where space is tight as it is tricky to build and needs as much space behind as in front of the incoming lines, so needs much more space than the alternatives.

 

Alternatively, Iain's "Omega" design or cassettes would be more space efficient. I particularly like his omega design, in conjunction with cassettes for the storage lines, and would probably use that if I had less space. For more details of these see his latest Haynes book - an absolute cornucopia of layout ideas.

 

 

 

I agree that you need no more than two exchange sidings but I would not re-arrange the goods yard. It has a trailing connection, which is "correct". There will probably be only a couple of pick-up goods shunting the yard each day - one up and one down, so If you need to run round a train to shunt it that's fine - the more moves the merrier!

 

I really look forward to seeing how this develops. Your drawing style suggests you have a real feel for the aesthetics of layout design.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ian

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Ryhope grange now theres a thought Seaton junction and the Silksworth branch maybe for me next time I'm doing Philadelphia at the moment.Coming originally from Seaham Ido know the area well flitting between Seaton box and Hall Dene Plus the coast line and the Wellfield branch were used as Diversions from the East coast mainline

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That looks very attractive - in fact I know someone who'd bite your arm off for this layout.

Well I'll eat most things but I do draw the line at cannibalism! :O.

But seriously though, that looks good and FP is right I am going a distinct shade of green! For FPs benefit, I'm currently sitting in David's room doing some mental calculations...

 

 

I've always fancied this arrangement (force-fed too many pictures of Ryhope Grange I guess). Leave a small gap between the layout and the backscene and you could concoct all sorts of indirect lighting effects from below.

That too is an attractive prospect, although I like the idea of a backscene featuring a distant hill with Penshaw Monument atop

 

Ralph

Lambton 58

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Would it be better to run into a head shunt and then licick back into the yard or just have a point so that the train would straight reverse into the yard.

 

From my very limited knowledge, I think the trailing sidings with direct access would be more typical of a wayside station. I'm not sure about the utility of a shunt neck in this arrangement as much of the train would surely have had to be left on the running line while the loco shunted the sidings. However, I can't find a suitable NER example to quote.

 

 

For FPs benefit, I'm currently sitting in David's room doing some mental calculations...

Psst - wrong son.

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From my very limited knowledge, I think the trailing sidings with direct access would be more typical of a wayside station.

 

You're probably correct. Looking at the plan again I agree that the indirect connection via a headshunt does not accord with any prototype that I can think of but then my recollection is beginning to fail!

 

If you do re-arrange the goods yard, I think that the connection to the main line should be a trailing connection. A facing connection would simply not be appropriate. So possibly the best arrangement would be at the left hand end of the station, where the entrance to the main station building is, swapping the positions of the station building and and goods shed.

 

Keep the posts coming!

 

Ian

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You're probably correct. Looking at the plan again I agree that the indirect connection via a headshunt does not accord with any prototype that I can think of but then my recollection is beginning to fail!

 

If you do re-arrange the goods yard, I think that the connection to the main line should be a trailing connection. A facing connection would simply not be appropriate. So possibly the best arrangement would be at the left hand end of the station, where the entrance to the main station building is, swapping the positions of the station building and and goods shed.

 

Keep the posts coming!

 

Ian

 

Interesting comments, thanks. Facing connection as in going past and reversing in? Trailing as in straight in? I had though after FPs post (6) to move the Station Building to the other side of the tracks to provide room for the revised track layout. I wont have time till later in the week to put pencil to paper but I will have a ponder. As to the area to the top left, I think I will have a siding as a stabling for the locos picking up and dropping off the coal hoppers and one with some sort of factory/business. A Stotty Cake/Lardy Cake manufacturer maybe???? I shall think some more.

 

Pete

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That too is an attractive prospect, although I like the idea of a backscene featuring a distant hill with Penshaw Monument atop

 

Ralph

Lambton 58

Thats exactly what I'm trying to do with my layout.Problem is I can't draw for toffee nuts so I will have to try and do something with photographs.Still I'm a bit off that stage yet.I think any North Eastern layout set north of Darlo south of Alnwick has got to have it in the distance.Ps can any of you name the seven kingdoms seen from top of Pensher hill?

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Facing connection as in going past and reversing in? Trailing as in straight in?

No trailing connection as in going past and reversing in, like this (sorry, can't do justice to your sketch)

 

post-6813-0-84204000-1328740347.gif

 

If you were to go this way, as well as rearranging the buildings as clecklewyke suggests, I think it would also help to roll the layout clockwise a little, as it were, and open up the radii to the left of the station for the new points. I hope that makes sense: your main line is a very pleasing asymmetrical shape, but it could almost do to be a mirror image.

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Thats exactly what I'm trying to do with my layout.Problem is I can't draw for toffee nuts so I will have to try and do something with photographs.

I know what you mean. I had in mind something vaguely impressionistic in the far distance as it were

 

Still I'm a bit off that stage yet.

Me too! As Flying Pig can confirm!

 

I think any North Eastern layout set north of Darlo south of Alnwick has got to have it in the distance.

That or Durham Cathedral

 

Ps can any of you name the seven kingdoms seen from top of Pensher hill?

Oooh good question! How about Britain, England, Northumbria, Scotland, The Prince Bishopric of Durham, Sky and Sea?

 

Psst - wrong son.

Not necessarily - Pallatic Lane's got to go somewhere

 

Ralph

Lambton58

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Hi Toftwood,

This is right up my street (Chester-le-street?) and I am really looking forward to seeing this take shape. I am hoping to start a new layout soon, I'm retiring in May, so I find this very inspirational. I'm also looking to go BR(NE) steam/diesel transition era. I have happy memories of watching the coal trains at Easington Colliery, J27 or Q6 hauled. As I recall, the empties would arrive from Hartlepool on the down line, the loco would then back the train into a (trailing) loop, run round the train on the main line and then push the train in to the colliery - all of this accompanied to the sound of much buffering up of the empty unfitted hopper wagons - happy days! The closest I can get to this on my current (demountable) layout is a Bachmann WD and six Hornby hoppers plus brake van. I can recommend the Bachy WD and the Ivatt 4F locos though - I remember them displacing the usual J27 or Q6. Both of these Bachmann locos are super runners, especially the WD, through my dead frog points.

I too am tempted to "nod towards" a City of Durham scene on the new layout - viaduct, terraced streets below, big church in the background. Haven't quite worked out how to squeeze it all in though!!

Best wishes with the layout.

Regards,

Brian.

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Hi Toftwood,

This is right up my street (Chester-le-street?) and I am really looking forward to seeing this take shape. I am hoping to start a new layout soon, I'm retiring in May, so I find this very inspirational. I'm also looking to go BR(NE) steam/diesel transition era. I have happy memories of watching the coal trains at Easington Colliery, J27 or Q6 hauled. As I recall, the empties would arrive from Hartlepool on the down line, the loco would then back the train into a (trailing) loop, run round the train on the main line and then push the train in to the colliery - all of this accompanied to the sound of much buffering up of the empty unfitted hopper wagons - happy days! The closest I can get to this on my current (demountable) layout is a Bachmann WD and six Hornby hoppers plus brake van. I can recommend the Bachy WD and the Ivatt 4F locos though - I remember them displacing the usual J27 or Q6. Both of these Bachmann locos are super runners, especially the WD, through my dead frog points.

I too am tempted to "nod towards" a City of Durham scene on the new layout - viaduct, terraced streets below, big church in the background. Haven't quite worked out how to squeeze it all in though!!

Best wishes with the layout.

Regards,

Brian.

 

Thanks Brian, I was abit too young to see and understand the end of steam, although I did go spotting with my elder brother to Newcastle a couple of times. It was abit too overwhelming and somewhat frightening to cab one of these monsters as a 7 yr old! I know the first time I saw a Deltic, it nearly scared the wits out of me, the noise was incredible! Never forget it...D9007 PINZA. I did see the last vestiges of steam with the odd J27 at Percy Main and occsionally a stored 'big un' at Heaton shed as we passed on the way to School by train from Tynemouth.

 

Pete

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That too is an attractive prospect, although I like the idea of a backscene featuring a distant hill with Penshaw Monument atop

 

Ralph

Lambton 58

Thats exactly what I'm trying to do with my layout.Problem is I can't draw for toffee nuts so I will have to try and do something with photographs.Still I'm a bit off that stage yet.I think any North Eastern layout set north of Darlo south of Alnwick has got to have it in the distance.Ps can any of you name the seven kingdoms seen from top of Pensher hill?

 

Are Bernicia and Deira 2 of them??

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Answer from an old Sunderland guide years ago. Durham, yorkshire, Westmorland, Northumberland, Scotland, Heaven and Davey Jones Locker

Scotland I'm not sure about having stood atop of Pensher hill many times I know on a clear day you can see Mt Cheviot(Teviot). But it was one of those articles you had to read and remember just like learning the Times table at school

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post-2207-0-26693800-1329047001_thumb.jpg

I have had a sit down and a re-draw of the plan incorporating some of the suggestions of FP. I have also included a couple of shots of my railway room. As you can see, I have swung the station round to the right abit, and incorportated the goods yard as coming of a trailing point at the left end of the platform.

 

In my room the layout will go across the end of the room under the window with the station under the window.

 

Pete

post-2207-0-75726100-1329047177_thumb.jpg

post-2207-0-79813700-1329047249_thumb.jpg

post-2207-0-10156200-1329047313_thumb.jpg

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Looks good this, definitely one to follow- I'm looking to Durham Coast in N next year.

 

A couple of comments- shunting the colliery sidings at the moment is going to be difficult for BR locos- I would look at swapping these for the industry (maybe not a dairy, largely the wrong part of the country- have a look in the Industrial Railway Society's Northumberland book for other ideas). This means NCB locos having to run round but most were plated to run onto BR metals anyway- espaecially if you are going to use WD 0-6-0STs. In general the NER made exchange sidings to suit its own convenience rather than that of the coal owners.

 

As regards the latter- if you can get hold of the Hornby NCB No.49, that is a genuine Northumberland loco, based at Backworth and now preserved at Tanfield. Otherwise most, but not all WDs in Northumberland were dark blue.

 

At the right-hand end of the station I've not yet found a facing crossover on an NER trackplan for a main line wayside station......

 

Hope this all helps.

 

Les

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Looks good this, definitely one to follow- I'm looking to Durham Coast in N next year.

 

A couple of comments- shunting the colliery sidings at the moment is going to be difficult for BR locos- I would look at swapping these for the industry (maybe not a dairy, largely the wrong part of the country- have a look in the Industrial Railway Society's Northumberland book for other ideas). This means NCB locos having to run round but most were plated to run onto BR metals anyway- espaecially if you are going to use WD 0-6-0STs. In general the NER made exchange sidings to suit its own convenience rather than that of the coal owners.

 

As regards the latter- if you can get hold of the Hornby NCB No.49, that is a genuine Northumberland loco, based at Backworth and now preserved at Tanfield. Otherwise most, but not all WDs in Northumberland were dark blue.

 

At the right-hand end of the station I've not yet found a facing crossover on an NER trackplan for a main line wayside station......

 

Hope this all helps.

 

Les

 

Interesting comments Les. One would have though a layout planner of the likes of Ian Rice would have thought of that! Anyway I will redraw sometime this week. As for the industry, that could fit nicely where the exchange sidings are now. As to what I don't know. I have a PO Austerity which I could repaint.

 

Thanks

 

Pete

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