Railways around Stoke/Staffordshire in the 1970's/1980's

[flyingsignalman]

Forgot to mention Keith, that steri milk bottle is a real blast from the past! For some unknown reason the style of the bottle always put me off drinking steri milk as a kid. Thanks for reminding me!! Nice shot however.

 

 

 

Brian,

 

You've probably hit the nail on the head. I guess this box wasn't open 24hrs a day (Though Keith may know?) and was quite vulnerable to vandalisim. Removing the external framework on the model will make things a lot easier.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

The framework on the windows had chicken wire on them, as you guess to protect against vandalism.

 

If I remember correctly, the box was on two turns and was soon to go on one turn (of ten hours, I think) per day.

The Signalman on duty was transferring, due to this, to Foley Crossing on the Derby line.

[46444]

Thanks Keith for that confirmation re: the chicken wire. Infact, looking at the offending shot of the steri milk-Sorry token block you can see the wire through the glass.

 

Not knowing the area I guess the box wasn't as remote as it appears in the images and due to the shift pattern was vulnerable?

 

Will have to start drawing up some sketches to get a feel for the dimensions of the box.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Fat Controller]

This is the site as it appears on Google Maps today, the box being located at the narrow end of what is now a fenced compound- the right-hand branch of the 'wood' is the Leek branch, which supposedly has track on it:-

http://g.co/maps/88p9s

Abbey Hulton is near-by, which is why the wire mesh was needed...

[46444]

Thanks Brian,

 

I hear what your saying re: the need for mesh!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[bcnPete]

Mark, hi

 

Only just found this...thanks for the tip-off...

 

Looks like a nice project and its really exciting when peeps start to add photos/knowledge etc to build up the history - am enjoying it so far.

 

Do you have a track plan (back of an envelope or similiar) of what you are thinking about?

 

Pete

[46444]

^{Hi Pete,}

 

^{Thanks for the comments and encouragement.}

 

^{I'll get a diagram together hopefully tomorrow which will be a back of an envelope job. No Templot here!}

 

^{However, it will be based on Iain Rice's Bradfield St.Clare.}

 

^{Might start a blog entry tomorrow as well.}

 

^Cheers,

 

^Mark

[flyingsignalman]

Hi Mark, some photos of Leek Brook Jcn taken 23/11/1981.

Looking from the road bridge looking north to the junction. The old platform on the left was the interchange for the tramway to Cheddleton Hospital (I think that was its name).

The rear of the box.

The junction from by the box, the line to Stoke comes in from the left.

two views of the lever frame

The box diagram, Cheddleton to the right, Stoke to the bottom, Caldon Low to the top, former line to Leek (now sidings) to the left.

View from the box steps looking at the junction. The signal is off for the train pictured in post 13. Note the yellow disc on the left.

The front of the box.

Finally my drawing of the box diagram.

[Rivercider]

I have never visited the branches, but did make a visit to Stoke, here are a couple of pictures from November 1982.

My notes for the day showed this as a Caldon Low to Cockshute Yard working, but it is more likely to be sand from Oakamoor.

They are not great pictures, the first 5 vehicles are MTVs, and behind that under the station roof appear to be possibly HTVs?

 

25253 & 25315 passing through Stoke on Trent with a train probably from Oakamoor, 16/11/82

 

25253 & 25315 heading towards Cockshute Yard, 16/11/82.

 

cheers

 

edited at Brian W suggestion, .... thanks

[Fat Controller]

I have never visited the branches, but did make a visit to Stoke, here are a couple of pictures from November 1982.

My notes for the day have this as a Caldon Low to Cockshute Yard working.

They are not great pictures, the first 5 vehicles are MTVs, and behind that under the station roof

appear to be possibly HTVs?

 

25253 & 25315 passing through Stoke on Trent with a train from Caldon Low, 16/11/82

 

25253 & 25315 heading towards Cockshute Yard, 16/11/82.

 

cheers

I think you'll find it's sand from Oakamoor to St Helens/Warrington. The MTVs were used for both the Oakamoor sand and the Caldon Low/Witton limestone; the load in these wagons looks a bit too light and fine for limestone.

[250BOB]

This is undoubtably the loaded sand train from Oakamoor with the (I think ((MTV)) wagons at the front providing a 'fitted head' along with some either HJV (or more likely at this time HKV hoppers.)Any unbraked HJO or MCO wagons would now bring up the rear - with a brake van.However at this time it would probably be running fully fitted with no brake van.

 

Also note that when it left Oakamoor this would have been the back of the train as the locos needed to run round at Leekbrook to get to Stoke.So this led to the unusual formation up until the end of the use of none train braked wagons of the fitted head being at the back of the train as it ran therefore totally unfitted to Leekbrook until the locos ran round !

 

Also I don't ever recall seeing or hearing of the trains from Caldon Low being double headed.

 

& finally if you've not been bored so far I don't know where the MTV wagons were heading, the hoppers were definitely for St.Helens (Pilks)

 

Oh & really finally the Oakamoor sand train was the last timetabled vacuum brake only freight to run over any part of the WCML all other freights had by then become air-braked. (engineers/ballast trains were also VB but only but ran as required.)

 

Bob

[46444]

Evening Keith,Bob,Brian and Kevin,

 

Great stuff once more.

 

Thankyou for posting all of those excellent pictures and the information to go with it. Most enlightening!

 

Managed to acquire a copy of 'North Staffordshire Railways-Scenes from the 1980's by Moors (2007) today which is an excellent book covering these lines discussed.

 

Some interesting pictures of double headed Class 20's on the new BIS PAA's that replaced the HJV/HTV hopper wagons on the trains from Oakamoor.

 

Theres's also some great images taken around Milton Junction and of the box itself.

 

In looking at the photos it is amazing to see how the railways have changed in the past 30-40 years or so. There's some wonderful shots in this book of drivers, signalmen and track workers. It doesn't look like H&S has taken hold by all accounts.

 

I'm about to post an entry on my blog. I'm going to downsize things for the time being so my idea of using Iain Rice's plan for 'Bradfield St.Clare' has changed but nevertheless there will be some ideas incorporated from his works.

 

Thanks once again to all of you.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[StaffsOatcake]

You may find some shots of the area around Stoke in this link http://www.flickr.com/photos/staffsoatcake/sets/72157626254785425/

 

this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/staffsoatcake/sets/72157626148818955/ and this one http://www.flickr.com/photos/staffsoatcake/sets/72157626311057753/

 

 

I spent many happy hours in the signal box at Leek Brook Junction(note the correct railway spelling it is not one word as per the road sign) as a teenager and have many tales of happenings. I should have been studying for my o and A levels but seem to spend more time around the Junction than I did at school. I only have a small selection of the images on my flickr site and thanks to image theives from the past I am unwilling to publish them all.

[StaffsOatcake]

I think you'll find it's sand from Oakamoor to St Helens/Warrington. The MTVs were used for both the Oakamoor sand and the Caldon Low/Witton limestone; the load in these wagons looks a bit too light and fine for limestone.

 

It could also be sand from Oakamoor to Worksop as this was also a regular turn, MTV's were rarely used on the the stone trains to Witton and more commonly carried in the MCV wagaons.

[StaffsOatcake]

The branch had two trains a day during the period you're looking at; one to and from Caldon Low and one to and from Oakamoor- I'm not sure when traffic from Chatterley-Whitfield stopped, but I doubt there'd be more than a couple of trains from there.

The steri bottle (disgusting stuff) reminded me of one of the odder jobs I did for Manpower in Hanley- stock-taking a corner-shop around Northwood way, prior to its sale. Part of the 'display' in the front window was held up by an aged steri bottle- the vendors insisted I include it in the valuation. Fast-forward a year; I get called to do a stock-take for the previous purchaser, who was now trying to sell it- guess what? The steri bottle was still in the window, and they still wanted the bottle including in the sale.. They wondered why they had struggled for business..

 

During the 1970's there could be more than two trains a day up to Leek Brook. Up until the closure of the live to Black Bull (Biddulph/Victoria Colliery) Milton box and Leek Brook remained a two turn box. The line to Chatterley Whitfield Colliery was cut back to Norton and remained in use to until 1979/80 to serve Norton Colliery and latterly saw the use of HAA wagons with class 47's on workings to Ironbridge and Rugeley Power stations. Norton more regular sent out coal in fitted and unfitted 16t and 21t 4 wheelers to Meaford power station. During the building of the Thames barrier up to 3 trains a day could leave Cauldon Low. Two boulders and one aggregate. There were days when there were two sand trains out of Oakamoor. The usual one/s to St Helen's but also one to Worksop. By the time I was going to the box regularly this was down to one train each day to Cauldon. Occasionally two if the airbraked redlands ran and one to Oakamoor. When Milton Box was removed the Box became a one turn box as both trains would run in the morning to Leek Brook and onwarsd and return about lunch time. The signal man was bale to knock off at two. However when the PGA's hoppers arrived on the BIS service the train ran later and returned from Oakamoor in the afternoon. It was possible to see both trains at once at Leek Brook like this one taken on the 01/05/1987

[46444]

Thankyou Staffs Oatcake for posting all of those shots.

 

Looks like your time spent in the box paid off. Love the 25's though all the 24's were long gone by now.

 

It's interesting looking at the those images to realise how picturesque this line was.

 

Great stuff.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[StaffsOatcake]

I remember the class 24's working both the sand and stone trains. As a young lad just never had a camera with me. As a really young boy I would often be taken by my great grandfather and grandfather over to the shunting bridge at Leek to watch the train shunt the yard. Their house overlooked the goods yard, however, this all stopped in 1971 when the line as closed from Leek Brook. But I have fond memories of many of the Class 24's and Class 25's coming to Leek. Some would be in tired old green but others in spanking new blue and yellow having not been released from Crewe/derby works. The class 24's were preferred by the local crews as the crews believed they had better haulage profile on the routes around Stoke. I will at some point upload more images to my flickr site but it is getting round to watermarking them all.

[250BOB]

Hey Staffs Oatcake........I go with you on the Leek Brook spelling......but I note you spell Caldon Low with and extra "u"...?

 

 

Havent seen you in ages....what you up to.? Keep those pics coming, really local and very interesting thread.....lets keep it going.

 

Bob

[Fat Controller]

Nice to see those shots of the branch during its swansong- when I finished working somewhere with a view of the line (T&M Autoparts on Victoria Road), 24081 was covering most of the branch turns, though I saw a 47 on the boulders a few times.

Herself said she always spelt Cauldon with the 'U', and she went to Wetley Rocks school...

[TheSignalEngineer]

Brings back memories of sitting in the S&T office at Glebe St about 1971. 24/25 hauled sand trains passed my window every day. Sometimes they came down covered in snow even though the weather was good in Stoke.

Some of my ancestors came from around Bagnall, in the Leek - Biddulph area.

[250BOB]

Nice to see those shots of the branch during its swansong- when I finished working somewhere with a view of the line (T&M Autoparts on Victoria Road), 24081 was covering most of the branch turns, though I saw a 47 on the boulders a few times.

Herself said she always spelt Cauldon with the 'U', and she went to Wetley Rocks school...

 

Vicky Road eh Brian...??

 

There always seems to be some discussion on that spelling.......but what the hell, we all know where it is, so matter really.

Bob

[StaffsOatcake]

Cauldon is spelt with a U. It's the bloody ordnance survey people that have messed it up. Bit like Utcheter is now Uttoxeter. Mr Signal Engineer you would have known a close friend of mine. Steve Robinson. he was based at Stoke for a while before ending up at Stafford.

[250BOB]

Cauldon is spelt with a U. It's the bloody ordnance survey people that have messed it up. Bit like Utcheter is now Uttoxeter. Mr Signal Engineer you would have known a close friend of mine. Steve Robinson. he was based at Stoke for a while before ending up at Stafford.

 

My mates who lives in Oakie and Chaydull, they both insist its Caldon.

[Fat Controller]

To return to the trains...

One feature of the Oakamoor trains during the early part of the period under discussion was the provision of a fitted head as far as Cockshute Yard. This had been provided in the mid 1970s by using redundant cattle vans (the first volume of David Larkin's 'Working Wagons' has a shot of these); by 1978, these had been replaced by BR standard Banana Vans, then by ex-Ford long-wheelbase Palvans. This was when a large part of the train was composed of unfitted ex-Ore hoppers.

Cockshute was the first place I saw the Plaice (converted vac-fitted Plates with new bodies)- they were being used to bring out blanketing sand from Cheadle, but the seals on the doors were so poor that more sand ended up on the track than stayed in the wagon. They soon reverted to ex-merchandise opens.

[StaffsOatcake]

You been talking to those cowboys in Cheadle Bob? Just to put the record straight or confuse matter more.

 

http://www.cuct.org.uk/caldon/index.shtml this article puts both spellings in on article. The Canal was Caldon but the quarries are at Cauldon Low and the locals spell it with a U http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g2431892-d626540-Reviews-The_Cross_Inn_Cauldon_Low-Cauldon_Low_Staffordshire_England.html.

 

And did you know it was originally Brom Shall crossing near you not Bramshall as it is now??

[250BOB]

You been talking to those cowboys in Cheadle Bob? Just to put the record straight or confuse matter more.

 

http://www.cuct.org....don/index.shtml this article puts both spellings in on article. The Canal was Caldon but the quarries are at Cauldon Low and the locals spell it with a U http://www.tripadvis...re_England.html.

 

And did you know it was originally Brom Shall crossing near you not Bramshall as it is now??

 

Yes, I knew it was Bromshall....I take a keen interest in the Clog and Knocker line.

It had a really tall signal box there.