edcayton Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Just got back from a really good (as usual) Biggleswade show. For various reasons I could not follow my usual practice of being there at opening time, and did not get there until gone 2.30. Did what I always do and had a brief look round and then attacked the home-made cakes whilst I had a good look at the programme. I had already decided that there were "too many micro-layouts" and that the show was not as good as previous years, so went for a closer look at the larger ones. By the time I had done this it was past 4.00 and the crowd had thinned out a lot, and many layouts had no spectators. I took advantage of this and looked again at the micro's. Guess what! They ranged from pretty good to excellent! I realised that the "problem" with micro's is not really the size of the layout per se, but the difficulty of getting to see them. One person in front (especially my size) and the view is blocked. So, I still feel there should not be many micro's at shows, but for a different reason and my feelings towards them have changed. My favourite today was "Tank House Sidings"-keep a look out for it. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungus the Fogeyman Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 As one of the 'Micro' mob there today (definitely at the 'pretty good' end of the market, we may have even had a bit of a conflab Ed!!), the flip side of the 'difficulty in getting near them' is usually that your average punter, and indeed your not-so-average punter, will take a brief glance whilst walking from one gigantic tailchaser to the next , decide that nothing much is happening and then carry on with barely a glance leaving periods around the layout where I wonder whether it was something I said!! Indeed at Bury St E last year, the local celebrity judging the 'best layout in show' (who was it- Don't tell him Pike!!) swept past my layout with litle more than a cursory glimpse...........so , sometimes it pays to time your visits to a layout whether it be large or small!! Disgusting of Market Harborough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Which was yours Bungus? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungus the Fogeyman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The layout known as Trev to its friends......... Take a bow Trevanna Dries! Disgusting of Market Harborough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2012 When ever I saw Micro layouts at exhibitions I would walk on past or only give them a quick glance. This was not because of the modelling (normally of a very high standard) or because of the action going on but mainly because I was more interested in seeing layouts I could never hope to have the space to build at home that showed a railway in the landscape rather than just a railway. These big layouts often were modelled to a standard that didn't match the micro's and sometimes had even less going on than the micros but they represented something that I couldn't achieve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 The layout known as Trev to its friends......... Take a bow Trevanna Dries! Disgusting of Market Harborough Was that the one being operated by a (very) young lady? I can't believe she is either Bungus or disgusted! Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Questiom to OP What do you define as a micro layout? Is a small tailchaser in N a micro layout - it may occupy the same space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Micro layouts need sympathetic location from an exhibition manager. Absolutely never between tail chasers. Possibly the best places are on a corner, especially if they can be placed on an angle such as Horseley Bank at St Albans last month. Another show that presents mico layouts in a sensible manner is Tonbridge. Have a look if you're going to the Angel Centre next Saturday. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 One of the better aspects of St Albans as a venue is the micro's on the balcony. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinter Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Surely it is un realistic to expect to like all the layouts at an exhibition, after all railway modelling is such a broad Church . The exhibition manager has to try and please everbody that pays the entrance fee ! I think barriers help ,but not every show has the room or can afford the cost. It is precisly because a micro appears to be do able that many exhibition visitors gain from them . Its not that easy to finish a layout to exhibition standards whatever its size , I would dispute that it is any easier than a large Oval. just my point of view Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Ed, for one awful moment I thought you were referring to micro breweries ... Seriously though: I also saw Trevanna and Tank House Sidings at Biggleswade yesterday [i had gone before you arrived] and agree with you entirely. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 All the shows I visit are small/medium affairs, often in school premises. The tail-chasers and main trade stands are usually in the main assembly/sports hall. This seems to leave the small traders and small or micro layouts to line the corridors or small classrooms off them. I always try to get a guide, to make sure I find all the layouts, sometimes the last room at the end of the corridor gets little passing trade. When visiting there will always be layouts I have seen before or read about, but one of the many pleasant aspects of attending exhibitions is to come across an unexpected little gem. So for me, if the organisers can fit in a few micros, then I am more than happy. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2012 I like the level of detail seen on some of the micro layouts but - do operators get bored out of their skull when operating them for more than a day? Do you constantly change stock or is mind blowingly tedious after a while? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie_pudd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 oooo yer gotta love micro`s if she got the legs to go with it oh fudge wrong forum For me micro`s are not so much the running but the detailings of what folk put in, as in your at that location and have taken a snapshot of that area. To put all the detailing in but not look an overcrowded mess, whether it be a 3` run or a 30` run, and takes time and skill. Just my views like. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted February 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2012 I like the level of detail seen on some of the micro layouts but - do operators get bored out of their skull when operating them for more than a day? Do you constantly change stock or is mind blowingly tedious after a while? As there are always new viewers in front of you, it's quite easy to repeat the same simple operations again and again. What I've done with my last two micros is introduce an element not often seen on larger layouts - on one I have a working wagon hoist, on the other a working wagon turntable. So this helps to break the monotony of moving a couple of wagons around. Changing stock / locos does help too, but when a Class 25 & 1 wagon fills the fiddle yard, there's not alot of variety... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I like the level of detail seen on some of the micro layouts but - do operators get bored out of their skull when operating them for more than a day? Do you constantly change stock or is mind blowingly tedious after a while? Surely it makes sense to have some sort of sequence to work to, whatever the size of the layout. On a BLT you would vary the trains in and out, on a roundy roundy with a bigger fiddle yard you would have sufficient trains to keep cycling them round the scenic bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I like to see the larger layouts at exhibitions, it is the only time you are likely to see them, but smaller layouts do have their place. The big problem with the smaller than 2'x4' layout is the samey-ness of them. They all tend to be a steam era branch line terminus. Of course there are numerous exceptions, and these always attract my attention, the urban, the industrial, and the the through station with a fiddlyard at each end are all sufficiently rare to be interesting. I think that a lot of the problem is that they are available, usually constructed to a very high standard, and cheap to invite. The secret to a small layout is to have some activity. If the prototype has little train related activity, then something else needs to be added. Working crane, Faller car system (or horse and cart system more appropriate to most), working morris men, anything to prevent it from being just a diaorama most of the time. For exhibition purposes most small branch lines can be made very busy indeed, and that always keeps the visitors attention, but it does take skilled operation, usually with at least two operators and suitable DCC or cab control. The most important skill to be learned is to be able to operate and talk at the same time. You can have running round, shunting and an arrival in the bay happening simultaneously if you are keen. Perhaps a little unprototypical, but you are just squeezing a whole days operation in to the time a visitor has to view the layout. I think that some exhibition managers are to blame, after I was told by someone who exhibits small layouts "There is no point in building anything bigger, the exhibition managers are not interested - they always ask for the smaller ones". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 ...working morris men....with working bells I presume? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Micro layouts need sympathetic location from an exhibition manager.  Absolutely never between tail chasers.  Possibly the best places are on a corner, especially if they can be placed on an angle such as Horseley Bank at St Albans last month. Exactly the problem. Far too many expo managers seem to use micro layouts to "fill in" the gaps between the big roundy-roundy club "spectacular" layout* Due to this poor layout micros hardly ever have the space they require and that just adds to the problem. On top of that the micro's owners tend to be more willing to enter into chat thus anchoring the punter (long lost friend) in front of the layout. With the bigger layouts all this seems to go on round the back. I still prefer the micro layout (a very big fan) as there is nothing worse than a big "showy" layout with many operators standing in the well* discussing last night's curry with no visible sign of trains running or the same one chasing its tail to infinity. *its usually a roundy-roundy and owned by the club or a neighboring club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted February 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2012 I like the level of detail seen on some of the micro layouts but - do operators get bored out of their skull when operating them for more than a day? Do you constantly change stock or is mind blowingly tedious after a while? Having exhibited Cogirep quite a bit I would say that the boredom factor is definitely there; there are only so many times you can shunt that wagon into that siding, do that runaround movement etc, before brain rot starts setting in (if it hasn't already). The way I keep up my own enthusiasm is to make sure that there is something different or improved in the layout's scenery for each outing, so that at least there is something new in it for me - since I'm operating from the front, I'm as much a spectator as anyone else - and also to vary the motive power throughout the day. By far the best tonic against boredom, though, is conversation - the hours fly by if you get a steady stream of onlookers with questions and comments, and also if you have fellow operators close enough for a bit of banter, help with coffee breaks etc. I'm also generally more than happy to let anyone have a go with the layout if they want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted February 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2012 Interesting topic this one I can be as wowed at an exhibition by a large layout...as equally as I can by a micro layout... From my own perspective these days, space is a premium and being based in Spain, any layouts I build to exhibit usually have to be micro as transportable in my 'carry on' hand luggage. Whilst I have become more interested in micro layouts as I get older, I do like to see a balanced mix of layouts at an exhibition and would perhaps suggest that too many micros could be as detrimental as too many large layouts... Its all down to the exhibition manager(s)...I guess... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted February 12, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2012 I was also at Biggleswade yesterday (relieving people of their money at the door) the standard of the micro's there was superb, Tank sidings, Trevanna Dries etc are able to pack a big punch in a small area. Of the feedback we got on the door of people as they left, it was that the standard of layouts was very high with scenic detail being the deciding factor in what was their favourite. One that was there was Hospital Gates, not that small, but for O gauge not that big either with a lot packed in. The favourite of the day came out as Wellbridge but not for being a large tailchaser/roundy roundy but because of the level and standard of detail, it was a particular fav for the mums attending with families. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungus the Fogeyman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Right,lets have a punt at replying to some of this Was that the one being operated by a (very) young lady? I can't believe she is either Bungus or disgusted! She is Disgusting Minor also known as Herb, Yobbo or Bex...or even my daughter....She also has her own Micro Layout, based on the Rev PD Heaths 'Piano Line'from the 60's, called Stockerston... can be seen soon at R*shden and Stowmarket.. I like the level of detail seen on some of the micro layouts but - do operators get bored out of their skull when operating them for more than a day? Do you constantly change stock or is mind blowingly tedious after a while? Can do. If the track plan is designed intelligently the boredom factor shouldnt set in. Also , creating operational 'obstacles' can give operational interest. For example,although Trev is basically an inglenook (2 sidings off a 'Main Line', with a covered loading shed over both sidings),operational interest can be created by regarding one road for loading bagged clay and clayhoods, and the other sidings for loading clay slurry and unloading coal for the coal-fired pan dries. This can be further complicated by banning locos from entering the loading shed, so that wagons at the back of the loading shed need reach wagons. Add to this the occasional bubble car shuttling between Par and Newquay along the main line ( all 18 inches of it!!) and theres enough to keep you occupied if you operate in a prototypical fashion. At the moment I havent yet got a slurry tanker (I've a Hornby one on the workbench being fettled) and I also have an S kits Clay tiger waiting to be built. Some may say far too big for the layout, but again it adds to the complications when shunting....One of the best small layouts I've ever had the pleasure of operating is George Woodcocks 'Pensbridge'. Never a dull moment on there!! The big problem with the smaller than 2'x4' layout is the samey-ness of them. They all tend to be a steam era branch line terminus Tosh!! None of the Micro layouts on display yesterday were steam era branch termini. My layouts are all different, albeit all diesel layouts.Theres a scrap yard, a china clay works, a goods only branch terminus, and a steel terminal. I suggest a quick shufty at Carl Arendts site and the MTI site would be of interest to you..... Disgusting of Market Harborough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 You could run a single HST power car instead of the bubble car. This was done when the rest of the train fell off, and was the best/only way of getting the passengers out. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapford34102 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Tosh!! Well said Dave . A lot interesting stuff here and I agree with most of it. My micro has been both sypathetically placed - see Tonbridge comment,also Canterbury but also stuck next to a busy trade stand where I nearly wrote a notice saying "If you're going to stand in front of my trainset then at least have the decency to look at" or words to that effect, very frustrating. Operationally you're the boss and can do exactly what you want to but I personally like to have a regular break and let someone else have a go. Thats often some paying visitor who loitered to long looking - customer participation.. I'm also amazed by the number of "fly bys" but take the attitude it's their loss not mine. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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