Michael Hodgson Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 A couple of kilos of those old francs would be quite bulky. They were so light I wouldn't be surprised if you could make them float on top of water. I know a scratchbuilt O gauge model of a breakdown crane whose vertical boiler was made by taking a pile of coins (old 1/2d, I think) and wrapping them with black paper. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Besley Posted November 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2021 9 hours ago, rab said: I think I'd struggle to hold an HO gauge hacksaw. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-Model-Pkt-of-2-Saws-In-N-Or-Ho-Gauge-By-Blackspur-/124986844773? As for N gauge, I'd struggle to even see it! Looking at the photo I think they may be coarse scale 0 gauge as they look a bit too big for 00 or EM for that matter 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 13 hours ago, MrWolf said: I've got some aluminium French Francs dating from the second world war. And they're worth...... **** all... 12 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: A couple of kilos of those old francs would be quite bulky. They were so light I wouldn't be surprised if you could make them float on top of water. I know a scratchbuilt O gauge model of a breakdown crane whose vertical boiler was made by taking a pile of coins (old 1/2d, I think) and wrapping them with black paper. Its a pity that the Guide Dogs don't collect milk bottle tops any more, aluminium coins would be just as good! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 You have to go a long way these days to find reusable glass milk bottles with recyclable aluminium tops. If plastic bottles were worth anything, the oceans wouldn't be full of them. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell price Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Indeed we still have milk in glass bottles with old fashioned foil tops. Still delivered to the door too! 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 23 minutes ago, russell price said: Indeed we still have milk in glass bottles with old fashioned foil tops. Still delivered to the door too! Your milkman must be aged about 120 by now! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted November 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 5, 2021 We get it too, not as cheap as the supermarkets but it's one less thing to cart home from the shops (by foot and bus). Delivered by Milk & More, part of the Muller group. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell price Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Ours is the Modern Milkman, all web based!! Maybe the wheel has gone full circle!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy WD Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 8 hours ago, russell price said: Ours is the Modern Milkman, all web based!! Maybe the wheel has gone full circle!! Ah, but don't forget Ernie..... Was that the trees a-rustling? Or the hinges of the gate? Or Ernie's ghostly gold tops a-rattling in their crate? They won't forget Ernie, (Ernieeeeeeeeee) And he drove the fastest milk cart in the west. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted November 6, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2021 18 hours ago, russell price said: Ours is the Modern Milkman, all web based!! Maybe the wheel has gone full circle!! How do you carry milk in a web, surely it would just run through the holes ?! cheers, Phil. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell price Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Maybe we should buy milk off eBay, that would be eBay madness!! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 On 02/11/2021 at 18:17, The Johnster said: Allowing for interpretation of the precise meaining of 'obsess' in this context. I'd say you are spot on and not at all sweeping or cynical. Selling stuff on the 'Bay brings out the desire in the seller to get the best possible price for his thing he is selling. which we will call the 'item' for the purposes of this discussion. In order to maximise the selling price, he/she attempts to create an impression for the buyer's 'information' of the quality and condition of the item, but is restrained by the trades descriptions legislation from being overly enthusiastic in his inventiveness, which we will call 'lying through his/her mendacious dishonest rotten false teeth' for the purposes of this discussion. So, he/she describes the item in terms that big up it's quality and condition, and tries to create an impression that he/she/the item's previous owner looked after it as if it was the formula for the cure for the common cold and written on micron thin porcelain. This is where the box comes in; a box in good condition can be used to manipulate the buyer into an impression that the model has been rarely removed from it, or that it has been looked after carefully so by implication the actual model has been equally carefully looked after, and that in general the seller/previous owner can be trusted. It ain' nes'arily so, as the song says. Actually, the condition of the box is at best irrelevant and at worst misleading. so that a box in mint condition (which may anyway be a modern reproduction print) might actually mean that the loco was taken out of the box when it was orignially bought and never put back inside until it is sold on, which might suggest that the model is a high mileage beast on it's last legs and somewhat battered and worn. Or a dogeared battered box, which would in this scenario perhaps detract from the percieved value of it's contents by suggesting a rough life, might in reality indicate that the model is carefully put away after each use and has in fact been assiduously cared for and looked after. To sum up, boxes don' mean a thing if they ain't got that swing, and they ain't, by and large, got that swing. My view is that a box is what you put a model in to post it to the buyer, and has no relevance beyond that. I have a wardrobe top where my boxes are all stowed, in more or less perfect original condition after being opened to get at the goodies and chucked up there, because I live in a rented flat and may have to pack it all up to move at relatively short notice if my landlord decides to not renew my 6-monthly short lease agreement as he is perfectly entitled to do. The value of this approach has already been proven when he refurbished my flat several years ago and I had to live in the one across the hall for a month or so. Hattons' 'pre-owned' listings are interesting in this regard; Hats are seriously fixated on boxes and will ask more for a scratched and damaged non runner with missing bogies and no couplings in a good box than they will for a complete unboxed runner, with slightly damaged runners in poor boxes occupying the middle ground. Hats are pretty infathomable anyway, with identical items being listed as 'last one' and at differing prices. Caveat emptor, boxes are irrelevant, models aren't. I'd rather a good unboxed model than a poor one with a perfect box, and will usually pay less for it as well! That entirely depends on the purpose of the item in the box. If you want a model of a locomotive or a piece of rolling stock to run then indeed the condition of the box is irrelevant. However, for a vintage item, the box and bits can be worth more than the contents. As a modeller, modifier, collector and runner I cross every one of the borders that are so rigidly defined by many as exclusive. For modification, I want items that superficially look bad and are unboxed or in tatty boxes, but which are cheap, because the box and original finish is uninteresting to me. Indeed, if I happen across a mint example of something I want to modify at a good price I tend to sell it on to fund a tatty one with a bit left over, no need to take paintbrush or knife to a pristine model when there are enough out there that someone has already messed about with. But for certain vintage items, where I have (for nostalgic or historic purposes) an example in my collection, finding all the packing bits and a really good box is often harder than finding a good example of the item itself. I recently acquired (in a job lot in auction) a selection of items that included a Triang RS3 Britannia + Pullmans train set from 1960 or so. The set had no lid; the loco was damaged and well worn; the Pullmans were used as was the Series 3 track. As such it was spares only stuff. HOWEVER....for whatever reason it also includes the 'oil before using' paper tag (the one that was pressed on to the chassis underside of every new Triang loco in the 1960s, and then immediately thrown away); and the chimney 'cap' to keep the Seuthe smoke tube in place in transit, as well as the bottle of Shell lubricating oil. Those three tiny throwaway items were worth more than the rest of the set, and not even by measuring in £££ - the tag and chimney cap in particular are genuinely rare and hard to come by whether you want to spend £1 or £20.... Needless to say, in general ebay titles and descriptions are rarely helpful in finding any of this. Ignoring the hyperbole and taking a good look at the photos often pays much better dividends. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2021 I am different, I only ever buy items to use on the layout and never want to sell them on (though I have been known to give things away to caring homes). Boxes, on Planet Johnster, are for storage if the railway needs to be put away, which in general use it isn't and all the stock is either on the layout or one of the shelves behind the fy, or in project boxes being improved (some definitions here; a model that I am doing things to is 'being improved' or 'superdetailed', while a model anyone else has done thing to has 'been messed about with'), or on the work table. I see nothing wrong in the collecting/nostalgia/recreating xmas morning 1956 side of the hobby, but I have no interest in it. My attitude to the layout is that it is not a model, it is a real railway, only small and in the 1950s, serving the mico-economy and people of an imaginary South Wales mining village that never existed in a geographical location that does. My locos and stock are instrumental in providing this service and must earn their keep. If I were to sell them on, it would raise questions over why I bought them in the first place if I didn't want them, though there are purchases of 'donor' locos and stock the remnants of which murdle around in the scrap drawer. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Absolutely, it's 'live and let live'. Certainly when I started it was exactly that to me, a 'real' railway, but in parallel I became fascinated with how the models were made, the production techniques, the history, and so the two interests grew side by side. My attitude to the history is less about wallowing in nostalgia per se (not least because I have plenty of things from well before I was born) but for research, evidence and curating the history of model railways. I have some very early Rovex Richmond Triang models in pristine boxed condition - these really are worth absolutely nothing in their normal state and even in the condition I have would only sell for a few pounds to diehard collectors - they are 'rare' but not valuable. They are, though, an indelible part of the story that leads us to Bachmann, modern Hornby etc. My finding, fixing/retsoring and selling on old models is more about delighting in unearthing a gem and then enjoying it finding a good home - it certainly doesn't make any money in any real sense, but offsets costs and lets me handle far more things than I could ever justify for myself (and I've already got too much of that!) 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2021 (edited) The 'history of model railways' aspect of it is an interesting point, but I would not have the desire cash, room, or time for such a themed collection. RTR 'train set' layouts are worth considering in terms of their contribution to, or illustation of, social history over the last century or so, from the bespoke 'rich man's toys' of the early days through Hornby 0 tinplate, then Dublo and Trix Twin, followed by Rovex/Triang, who were one suspects going for a more budget orientated market but nevertheless proved the concept of 2 rail and plastic moulding, the foundations of the current 4mm scene. Then TT and N, all of which reflected a society in which the disposable income of the lower middle classes was increasing at the same time as the space in their homes was decreasing and the trade attempted to persuade them that they did have enough room. In the 1930s, a 3 bedroom semi with decent size rooms, a long rear garden for a shed, and room for a garage, was within the reach of a midde income earner who was reasonably careful with his money and avoided overtly profligrate habits, a situation that probably pertained until the mid 60s. Nowadays, and for the last half century, such a person needs a partner bringing in a second income to have a chance of even a small home, often with an open plan combined kitchen/ding room/lounge no more than 15' long in all, with a tiny garden and little space where he might put a layout. More often than not people in the big cities live in flats or apartments, where space is at even more of premium. Where about 12' was probably the smallest room dimension in the 1930s semi, it is now probably the biggest room dimension in the starter home, even if it is detached and on a new estate. Two things have happened to enable the hobby to keep going; firstly, the scales have got smaller, with N being a major feature but we are now down to T! Secondly, we have micro layouts, first apparent in the GWR BLT craze of the 60s and 70s and later in the creations of the likes of Iain Rice, who showed us how small could be beautiful, and Ian Pemberton, who showed us how to get main line operation and a busy yard into a relatively small space. Layouts that in the 30s and up to the 60s would have been on 6x4 or 8x4 or even bigger baseboards migrated from the centres of big rooms to the walls of small rooms. That said, a trawl through complete secondhand layouts on the 'Bay will show that the 6x4 still has a firm grip on many peoples' idea of what a model railway should look like; trains tail chase around a village in the middle of the loops they tail chase around. The old ways die hard. This may be in part because the owners of such layouts are trying to recreate an ideal layout from their childhood, the one on the cover of the train set box or the department store xmas display, that they could never afford but dreamed of, and the dream never died. They married, had kids, the kids left, the mortgage got paid, and the layout started! It is perhaps unreasonable to think of such layouts as 'proper' (whatever that actually means) railway modelling. They are not attempt to model any real railway or it's practices and appearance, they are models of 1950s/60s model railway layouts. Nowt wrong with that, either. All of this no doubt has a big impact on the general perception of model railways and railway modellers. Go up your local pub and start a conversation about it; everybody will know Hornby and nobody will probably have heard of Bachmann. When I show them photos of my layout, I have to explain that it is end to end on the walls of a room and what a fiddle yard is, both concepts foreign to them, and they are (to my immense pleasure of course) amazed at how realistic and natural it looks; 'you've made it look dirty and run down, just like the real ones were', yes, that was the intention! If all this has a big impact on general perceptions, it also drives the marketing for the bigger producers, and has a major influence on the secondhand market, especially the 'Bay. People frequent the real and online stores, and the 'Bay, for a variety of different reasons/purposes and a variety of outcomes. I browse 'Bay looking for cheap donor models or recently produced to current standard items that I can't afford new. Since restarting in the hobby 5 years ago, I have bought 14 locomotives for use on the layout, and 3 as donors, and have paid full RRP for none of the new ones. Thus, I have little interest in older items that are less detailed and which often feature compromises to enable operation of very sharp trainset curves. I may make an exception if a model is particularly attractive to me and there is no alternative; for example, I bought a 3-pack of Hornby LNER 8-plank 24ton minerals in my local emporium, because they were cheap and despite the fact that they failed to meet one of my specifcations, that the brake handles should be a separate detail and not moulded to the chassis. I have replaced the chassis on 2 of them, and the other languishes in the languishing box pending my acquisition of the long awaited round tuit, but they proved a point that improving such older models to current acceptable standards is often more work than it's worth. One chassis had the brake levers roughly cut off and now resides beneath a Fruit C which is the cut'n'shut mortal remains of an old Dapol Fruit D which was pensioned off when I replaced it with a Parkside kit. The steps hide the worst of the scars and inaccuracies; the search for perfection and demanding it in new models does not preclue my producing 'layout models' that pass the 2 foot rule in poor lighting out of bits of older stock. Edited November 6, 2021 by The Johnster 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 8 hours ago, The Johnster said: I am different, I only ever buy items to use on the layout and never want to sell them on (though I have been known to give things away to caring homes). Boxes, on Planet Johnster, are for storage if the railway needs to be put away, which in general use it isn't and all the stock is either on the layout or one of the shelves behind the fy, or in project boxes being improved (some definitions here; a model that I am doing things to is 'being improved' or 'superdetailed', while a model anyone else has done thing to has 'been messed about with'), or on the work table. I see nothing wrong in the collecting/nostalgia/recreating xmas morning 1956 side of the hobby, but I have no interest in it. My attitude to the layout is that it is not a model, it is a real railway, only small and in the 1950s, serving the mico-economy and people of an imaginary South Wales mining village that never existed in a geographical location that does. My locos and stock are instrumental in providing this service and must earn their keep. If I were to sell them on, it would raise questions over why I bought them in the first place if I didn't want them, though there are purchases of 'donor' locos and stock the remnants of which murdle around in the scrap drawer. Boxaholics would spin if they knew what I've been known to do to the boxes models come in! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 On 03/11/2021 at 23:09, MrWolf said: I've got some aluminium French Francs dating from the second world war. And they're worth...... **** all... "Ohhhhh, Betty!" or "I've got plans Betty, I think I could do something with chickens" 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2021 Something isn't quite right with this, but I just can't figure out what... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324737320332 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 16 minutes ago, Bucoops said: Something isn't quite right with this, but I just can't figure out what... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324737320332 "Multilocus sequence typing (MLST) is an unambiguous procedure for characterising isolates of bacterial species using the sequences of internal fragments of (usually) seven house-keeping genes." - There you go! Clear as mud! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said: "Multilocus sequence typing (MLST) is an unambiguous procedure for characterising isolates of bacterial species using the sequences of internal fragments of (usually) seven house-keeping genes." - There you go! Clear as mud! And there was me thinking it might be the Main Line Steam Trust. Prefer your one though. 2 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 28 minutes ago, Bucoops said: And there was me thinking it might be the Main Line Steam Trust. Prefer your one though. "Keep it in your genes" - as I always say! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Besley Posted November 6, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2021 15 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said: "Keep it in your genes" - as I always say! If I put that in my Jeans I might end up with the pin sticking in me 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2021 16 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said: "Keep it in your genes" - as I always say! Are you my ex? 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 27 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said: "Keep it in your genes" - as I always say! I remember that too: "No sex please, we're married". 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted November 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2021 21 hours ago, The Johnster said: I am different, I only ever buy items to use on the layout and never want to sell them on (though I have been known to give things away to caring homes). Boxes, on Planet Johnster, are for storage if the railway needs to be put away, which in general use it isn't and all the stock is either on the layout or one of the shelves behind the fy, or in project boxes being improved (some definitions here; a model that I am doing things to is 'being improved' or 'superdetailed', while a model anyone else has done thing to has 'been messed about with'), or on the work table. I see nothing wrong in the collecting/nostalgia/recreating xmas morning 1956 side of the hobby, but I have no interest in it. My attitude to the layout is that it is not a model, it is a real railway, only small and in the 1950s, serving the mico-economy and people of an imaginary South Wales mining village that never existed in a geographical location that does. My locos and stock are instrumental in providing this service and must earn their keep. If I were to sell them on, it would raise questions over why I bought them in the first place if I didn't want them, though there are purchases of 'donor' locos and stock the remnants of which murdle around in the scrap drawer. Date and location are different for me, but that's exactly my philosophy now ! When 'limited edition' stock first started to appear, I used to run it but not alter it in any way, because it was 'valuable'. Then I realised that I was tending not to run them, because they stood out for being 'box fresh' in a 'weathered' world. I'd bought them because I wanted a model of that particular thing, not because there were less of them made,etc, and I've no intention of selling them. So now, everything gets the same treatment regardless.....tested....detailed/weathered....goes on the layout. I've no problem with how others treat the hobby, if they want to keep stuff in boxes, or run a random mix of whatever they like, if it makes them happy....it's all good !! I do tend to have that kind of view on life in general too... ...Do what makes you happy, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, and you don't try to force your views on anyone... Cheers, Phil. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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