Armchair Modeller Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 The Class 143 is coming in 2013 from REALTRACK models. www.realtrackmodels.co.uk Fantastic - I'll have 3 N gauge sets in ATW livery, please! Then there's only the 175s missing.............................................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 I have been giving further thought to Cardiff Queen Street. Originally, I suggested an L or a U shaped layout, with the eastern side to the outside. The main reason for this was my concern that if the western end was to the outside, then the main station building would obscure the trains. Here are 2 shots of the building. http://www.flickr.co...ank/6189537637/ and http://www.flickr.co...ank/6189500691/ I have now estimated the height of the building. The building looks huge, but the railway is at first floor level, so its effect in obscuring the railway is nothing like as great as I had expected. This is good news, because it makes the bridges over the main line, the main line itself and the incline from Queen Street down towards Central much easier to model. The only loss would be Cardiff Bay branch, which would disappear into the backscene after it crossed the main line. There are far more trains heading into Central than down to Cardiff Bay, so overall, there is a large gain in operating interest. The other dilemma was what to do with Brunel House, the huge office block immediately east of the station. Now, I can incorporate it if I wish, as part of the backscene. So, I am now considering the possibility of building Queen Street on its own to start with. South Junction, the main line and the approach to Cardiff Central station would be an extension for the future. The best way of presenting this seems to be as a long, straight layout. I would need to subtly reverse the curve south of Queen Street to the east instead of the west. The section heading west towards Central would need to be curved slightly too. This works very well in my mind, with the bridge over the main line more or less exactly as it is in real life. The distance from the Queen Street platform ends to the main line would have to be compressed a bit, so adjacent buildings, roads and bridges en-route could not be modelled accurately. I would be very selective about what to include. It is amazing, looking at photos, just how much the area around the line has changed in recent years - sometimes more than once. The pointwork south of Queen Street is well spread out, so it needs no more turnouts in the short term than my idea for Cardiff Bay. It will require rather more work on the station structure, of course, but I feel in my element doing that sort of thing. On that basis, I think I might as well just get on with building Queen Street and forget Cardiff Bay altogether. We have already agreed that Cardiff tries to forget its history instead of preserving it. I will do my small part to reverse the trend by pretending that the Taff Vale building was saved for posterity, instead of being demolished. Quite how I turn that into a modern station, I am not sure yet. Like Bridgend, I could imagine that a new station building was built alongside the old one. Alternatively, the old building could have been adapted sympathetically for the future. Apologies for the lack of pictures, but all the photos I have found are copyright. Here are a few, though showing the current station rather than a "preserved" old one. The scaffolding surrounding the old AA building (while under conversion to apartments) collapsed in strong wind, showering debris over the nearby roads and railway around Queen Street station. (This shows the northern approach to the station very neatly) The viewing of the layout would be from the right. The building is now called "The Aspect". © Copyright Gareth James and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence. This one shows the south of the station, looking north. Brunel House is on the right. The viewing of the layout would be from the left. © Copyright Roger Cornfoot and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence. This one is from the platforms, looking south. The viewing of the layout would be from the right. © Copyright Martyn Harries and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence. And finally, one of the main line with the Queen Street line on the overbridge above. Looking north east. The viewing of the layout would be from the left. © Copyright Roger Templeman and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence. Incidentally, THIS site gives a list of the tallest buildings in Cardiff. The Aspect is given as 148ft high, whilst Brunel House is 190ft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Here is a link to a photo showing the approach to Cardiff Central from a Queen Street train. A convenient use for the Ratio viaduct components I originally bought for Bargoed! http://www.rcts.org.uk/cache/photographs/mystery/G-002-25.780.jpg I would only model this scene as far as the gantry in the distance - beyond there, the trackwork gets very complicated! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Oops, forgot the map! Queen Street is off to the left, lines to Central at the bottom, Cardiff Bay to the right, Newport to the top. The juxtaposition of water, the main line and the bridges on the Queen Street line would make a fascinating model in their own right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DavidLong Posted April 29, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2012 The Class 143 is coming in 2013 from REALTRACK models. www.realtrackmodels.co.uk Trouble is that I always get worried when websites haven't been updated for a while and this one hasn't been. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Trouble is that I always get worried when websites haven't been updated for a while and this one hasn't been. David Generally, I would agree - but the original post on here announcing the N gauge version was from the owner, so the information should be reliable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Weather bad here, so on with layout planning! Here is a very crude mock-up of Queen Street. It should be raised above the surrounding area on an embankment. The total length of the area shown is just over 4 feet, but could be compressed a bit if necessary. The pile of CD cases represent "The Aspect", whilst the boxes in the background represent the height, but not the length of Brunel House. The small block of wood gives a rough idea of the size and height of the first floor of the main station building - though it had an apex roof on top, which is not simulated. The darker area is the overall roof over the station. This would be mainly glass, making it easy to see the trains. You may just be able to see a red hatched area under the trains. This represents the position of the subway. The Cross-Country Class 170 is on the old platform 2, currently unused and unnumbered. Platform 1 was a bay platform in the foreground. The Arriva Class 153 is standing at the old Platform 5, currently numbered 3. Beyond "The Aspect" would be a road bridge over Newport Road, a dual carriageway. I found a great photo showing the dual carriageway flooded where it dips under the railway. Then, there is a large multi-storey car park that hides the north junction (where the Rhymney line splits from the Merthyr line) from view. I would not propose to model any further than the start of this car park building. The hidden tracks would then turn sharp right, into a small fiddle yard. In the foreground, the scenery continues to the right with a bulge of buildings in front of the railway, including the Masonic Lodge, before the Guildford Crescent bridge. These buildings form a convenient scenic break for the cut-off point of the first stage of the layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Oops, forgot the map! Queen Street is off to the left, lines to Central at the bottom, Cardiff Bay to the right, Newport to the top. The juxtaposition of water, the main line and the bridges on the Queen Street line would make a fascinating model in their own right. Perhaps these can help - taken many years ago during a Bay MRG field study trip to establish the possibilities of modelling the area. . The waterway is the Bute Dock 'feeder' which flows through Bute Park, along the rear (north) wall of Cardiff Castle, alongside Boulevard De Nantes then continues beneath Churchill Way and opens out on the south side of Bute Terrace between the former Wales Gas Board premises and the Cardiff Central - Cardiff Queen St. embankment near Adam Street bridge then passes beneath the South Wales main line. . Hover over the photos and a number will appear - unfortunately they haven't uploaded in the order I expected. . 0074 shows the junction of the Queen St. - Central and Queen St. - Bute Road lines with the SWML passing beneath. . 0072 looking northwards along the approaches to Queen St. The red bridge spans Bute Terrace (to the left) and Adam Street (to the right). The building on the left hand border is the car park of Snelling House, former Wales Gas Board HQ. . 0068 we are looking along the SWML in the up direction. The buildings we see in the foreground are at the top end of Bute St. and were part of the former Glastonbury Arms ( a BrAIns pub). The Radisson Blue Hotel now stands on this site. The line climbing from Cardiff Central up to Queen St. can be seen. . 0070 shows how the water level of the 'dock feeder' appears to be well above the ground level of the former WGB yard. . 0071 a wider view of that in 0070 above, the large church in the distance was at the top of Bute St. To the left of the church can be seen part of the former Edward England potato warehouse at the junction of Tyndall St. / Herbert St. (and then Collingdon Rd. but now Lloyd George Ave.) . Hope these are of interest. Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Those images are quite wonderful, Brian! That little corner in 4 of the photos was the one area I was most vague about - much of the dock feeder area seems to be covered in undergrowth on recent images I found. This makes things much clearer. It certainly looks very atmospheric! I have found a few photos on the internet - mainly of the viaducts themselves. The RCTS Mystery Photographs collection has some good ones taken from trains. Much of what I need for Queen Street is available through Google Street Viewer or photos on the Web, but this little corner is only viewable in the satellite view. I was planning to visit Cardiff at some point to investigate the dock feeder and viaducts more closely, but you have probably saved me the trouble. Many thanks again Brian - what would I do without you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 This site also has some good modern images of the viaduct and signalling http://photos.signallingnotices.org.uk/photo_index.php?pc=286 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 A new month seems an appropriate point to summarise everything. There have been 8 pages, 185 posts and nearly 8,000 views since mid-February, when I started the thread, not really knowing where it might lead. From a modelling perspective, we came across some very interesting modern image locations....... Tondu - simple trackwork but with a surprisingly interesting variety of trains and movements - especially when taking diverted main line trains into account. If you model prototypical-length freight trains, it needs a lot of space though - perhaps 25-30ft in N gauge to do it properly. Cymmer Afan - spectacular setting. Probably unsuited to an exhibition layout due to the large vertical and horizontal dimensions required. Strictly speaking, only just survived into the rail blue era. Pontypridd - operationally very interesting, especially if you like mainly passenger trains and reopen some of the closed platforms. Pity about the enormous platform canopy though, which obscures the trains from view. Barry Island - Main line and preserved trains side by side in recent times - the lack of freight would be a bit of a problem though. Cardiff Bay - with a little imagination, it could be seen as a busier station with a bit of freight still going through to the docks. Bargoed - The potential for a superb scenic layout, with a spectacular mix of urban and rural scenery. Needs a bit of imagination to introduce freight services again. Train services are otherwise fairly routine, though the Rhymney Valley did see regular loco-hauled passenger services a few years ago. Cardiff Queen Street - limited freight, but a very intensive passenger service. The current station is a little bland, but could be improved by pretending the old station building was retained, instead of demolished. Adding the junction with the main line would greatly increase the variety of freight and passenger traffic. If anything, this variety and intensity of traffic is its undoing. It would be difficult to operate realistically without a lot of automation, or several operators - and lots of trains. Just modelling the bridges over the main line and part of the main line itself would be an interesting project in its own right. There are, of course others I have not considered including Bridgend, for example. One thing is for sure - there is huge potential in South Wales. Hopefully this discussion will lead to a few more layouts. Many thanks to everyone that made a contribution, not least BR2975 for his excellent photographs. I think this topic has gone as far as I need now. I will take time out now to finalise my plans for a layout. I hope everyone else has found this topic as interesting and rewarding as I have. When I have made a bit of progress, I will start a new topic dedicated to the layout itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted May 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2012 AM: Not wishing to relight the thread so soon, but If you look at Barry instead of Barry Island, you find you have a junction with a preserved railway in the general vicinity, passenger and freight (MGR traffic). Plus the Vale of Glamorgan line is also the diversion route for the SW main line, which could really ramp up your traffic flow. I have found this whole thread really refreshing and the following and input from other forum members has shown that the SW Valleys area has a strong following. It just seems we are all on the cusp of producing models in various scales and gauges. I am currently finding it very difficult to resist redrawing and replanning (giving it more pointwork and signalling) my 4 mm effort. Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DavidLong Posted May 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2012 AM: I have found this whole thread really refreshing and the following and input from other forum members has shown that the SW Valleys area has a strong following. Agree absolutely. I hadn't caught up with it previously but have worked my way through all eight pages and found it extremely enjoyable. The help from other members also says a lot about RM Web and its followers. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2012 Agree absolutely. I hadn't caught up with it previously but have worked my way through all eight pages and found it extremely enjoyable. The help from other members also says a lot about RM Web and its followers. David And no need for it to end here. While the original question has been answered the Valleys are still there and were still there and there's an awful lot of railway gold to be mined out of the subject yet - definite competition one hopes for the thread which has built up looking at the Waverley route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 It is great that everyone has enjoyed this thread as much as I have. Please don't stop - I am happy to just read from now on As for Barry station, as Happy Hippo suggested, I did look at it briefly when I studied Barry Island. Don't know why, but it didn't do much for me aesthetically - nor Cadoxton, which used to be the junction for the Penarth loop. I agree about the operating potential though. Other ideas I could add include Pantyffynnon (hope I spelt it correctly) which now has freight again Swansea Victoria, mysteriously left open to serve the rebuilt Swansea & Mumbles line (converted to railway on segregated track) and the suburbs along the bay The beautiful scenery of the Central Wales line Treherbert, with a reopened line to Swansea Heads of the Valleys line I am sure others could add many more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DavidLong Posted May 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2012 It is great that everyone has enjoyed this thread as much as I have. Please don't stop - I am happy to just read from now on Other ideas I could add include Heads of the Valleys line I am sure others could add many more. Now you're talking real railways, the Merthyr, Tredegar and Abergavenny lives David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I did ponder the Swansea sea front in modern image form, with a tram/train running mumbles through to Swansea Bay and then turning up the road as a tram and swinging along the front of High Street station and up alongside the platform, with the other traffic being heart of wales and similar services via Gowerton/Killay and the serving SA1 and joining the line at Jersey Marine out to Neath Riverside and who knows where. Does have the advantage of only needing short trains (except the odd excuse for a special) but little scope for freight barring modelling sea wall rebuilding work or similar. So it would end up as a 150 and a tram train playing ping-pong on auto, which seemed a bit dull. I do have an Arriva 175 in N scale for it though 8) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I do have an Arriva 175 in N scale for it though 8) How about some photos, please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Its etched underframes and cab nose bits I did coupled with some very nice vinyls from Adam Warr (Electra). The original is a Farish 170 so the vehicle profile isn't quite right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 A selection of shots, some good, some indifferent, all taken in the recent past atf locations mentioned herewithin, and just (today) rediscovered on a hard-drive left in work !. . They are in no particualr order, just included here for your (hopefully) continued enjoyment and discussion (that's why I've left off any captions). . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 For those who don't know, the second shot in the sequence is at Cadoxton looking towards Barry. There used to be a lot more track and a lot less grass! The imposing building at left rear is the former HQ building of the Barry Railway. In the 1950s it was the home of the Mineral Accounts Office where my late grandfather held a senior position. Now, I believe, it is known as the Gwalia Building and is the administrative home of the paddle steamer Balmoral. The final shot is at Barry. The 150 is rounding the curve from Barry Island which is very sharp and makes the flanges of the nodding donkeys squeal like I don't know what. Just out of the pic to the right is the Vale of Glamorgan line which goes straight ahead through a cutting, curves to the right past the site of Barry Sidings and into Porthkerry No. 1 Tunnel. The road which runs alongide the cutting is Park Avenue and my grandparents lived at the far end. Above the 150 is what used to be the police station and the top of the Ship Hotel, which used not to be the most salubrious pub in Barry. The white houses to the left are quite new and occupy the site of a six road carriage shed made from black corrugated iron which stood there for upwards of 70 years. Over the photographer's left shoulder and at a lower level is Barry shed [88C], closed in 1964 and subsequently used to store MGR hoppers and, more recently, rotting hulks ex Woodhams. Thank you, Brian, for posting! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Once again, a treasure trove of photographs, Brian! The detail in some of those shots is very inspiring - and even Barry looks interesting on a sunny day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Chris, . Seeing as you enjoyed those shots of Barry - here are a few more (taken 11th April,2005), hopefully giving a better, uncluttered perspective. . Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Nice thread! Indeed, the South Wales valleys are an interesting subject I too have pondered a 2mm layout set amid such a scene... - among many other never-to-be-built-dreams Again Brian, some cracking shots there! Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Whilst more the 'vale' than the 'valleys' - staying with Barry, and some shots of probably the best 'Open Day' I ever attended. . Brian R Whilst more the 'vale' than the 'valleys' - staying with Barry, and some shots of probably the best 'Open Day' I ever attended. . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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