Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Evenin' all, It has taken considerable time to align the second caisson of the first pair to the adjoining latticework (in each plane) and tack solder the assembly together. This clip includes aligning/clamping the assembly for soldering, checking for alignment, clamping the .25mm nickel-silver sheet for scrawking more of the 4.5mm strips. Also, a selection of small, used (but thoroughly cleaned) drill/grinding attachments from a friendly dentist (ideal for use in a minidrill) are proving ideal for accessing tricky areas of the assembly during clean up. The lower latticework 'X' to be fitted between the caissons will be incomplete but the crossing of the 'X' will be included to provide additional strength to the assembly. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Evenin' all, Todays progress involved a clean up of the first lattice support before checking it for dimensional accuracy beneath the model viaduct deck. The height was ideal...with 1-1.5mm gap for expansion between the brass and the underside of the aluminium. The 10mm dia. steel centre studding for the supports has been cut and the below deck assembly into which it will locate/be bolted has been made. Once the deck attachment linking the deck with the studding has been made then each will be adjusted to level the deck ready for the above deck work. Latest arrival from Eilleen's is the 24'' x 6'' nickel-silver sheet from which the bowstring arches will be scrawked. See Ongoing progress Having realised that the lattice work has to be done with the conservatory doors wide open along with a window on the opposite side, in order to ensure that the fume from this stage is quickly dispersed by the cross-draft, I started work with the levelling sledge on the station to bridges frame whilst rain held up progress in the conservatory. A second crashing realisation was that the sledge works best across a uniform surface i.e. the cork alone, rather than a cork/filler combo. A new set of blades for the craft knife soon pared the top off the filler though and brought it down to the level of the cork (ready for the sledge) but hey ho, another lesson learned. Coarse aluminium oxide abrasive sheets bonded to the plate glass sledge with double sided sticky tape have done a good job in 'averaging' the cork surface ready for track laying to commence. There comes a time in all projects when a few trains have to start to run. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Aft'noon all, I've been putting off the start of track building for TG for some time now...because I haven't built any before.... and the elegant Templot trackplan designed by me but prepared for the print out/actual track building by Stephen Freeman (Borgrail) appears daunting to try and do justice to. Still, we all start somewhere and this mornings work on the layout preparing for the securing of the 2nd bridge deck to its underframe reminded me constantly that fixing/bolting it to its underframe is a point of difficult return, i.e. I have an option pre this stage to construct the double junction and associated adjacent trackwork and align the 2nd deck to match the trackwork, rather than struggle to do it the other way around. Having scratched the grey matter for a while it occurred to me that running off another set of pristine Templot prints for the double jnc to bridges area and arranging/securing them onto a 4' x 2' sheet of the polycarbonate (intended for the river surface) will give me a transparent/instant guide to all bridge deck positioning. When it comes to starting the track build, I can see two possible approaches at the moment: ....construct all track between the double junction and extreme ends of any pointwork on each bridge deck as one complete assembly, with the added consideration that all trackwork on the bridges will be on timber baulks as against the conventional sleepers of the non-bridge trackwork. This means that I'll have to place a second piece of plate glass onto the large sheet of plate glass to accommodate this step change/difference in height. This would be my preferred method because the 'flowing line' of rail through the entire assembly in each direction is my joint top priority with it all being absolutely flat/level and viewing it all in one piece is the easiest way to achieve that. ...alternatively, I could split the build into 3 parts (bridge trackwork, bridge trackwork, non-bridge trackwork) and then bring the sections together on the layout. Components wise C&L are my preferred source for all flexitrack and P&C components. Here is stage 1 of the track building project for TG...approx 7ft in length Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Evenin' all, Work progresses on the production of the various components needed to secure the Barnstaple bridge deck to its underframe, along with ensuring that it is positioned correctly. One issue discovered during this work is that the curvature of the track on the Templot plan for the Plymouth viaduct has at some point been adjusted, with the result that it is 25mm out of alignment at the Plymouth end of the viaduct. This is now in hand and should be remedied soon. Hindsight do say, ensure that all aspects of the trackplan are bang on before profiling the track bed. More practice with Templot is allowing me to print out small sections of the track plan e.g. the double junction area so that a pristine print is available for mounting on clear polycarbonate to act as a gauge for checking that all is correctly aligned. 'Lines to Torrington' is an excellent reference source for this project....the design of the Barnstaple route viaduct deck is being copied from pictures in the book. Latest sourcing of stock for the layout includes 5 x Lima bogie bolster E for combining with the etched parts from Rumney models, in a finescale upgrade. These will be split 2 & 3 to run loaded/empty in steel plate traffic for Appledore. The caisson tubes for the Barnstaple line bridge have now been ordered from Eileen's. These will be based on 6ft diameter prototype tubes rather than 8ft diameter tubes as for the Plymouth route viaduct. 23mm dia. brass tube will be used on the model bridge. Learning from the construction of the Plymouth route bridge deck 4 x aluminium 'L' section longitudinals will be sliced from 1 inch L section and used to stabilise the Barnstaple bridge deck....there is no need to waste drill bits drilling stainless steel and the introduction of dissimilar metals can cause issues with deforming under varying temperature/expansion, contraction conditions. This image from a currently unknown photographer illustrates the contrast in bridge styles and also the varying method of support between the caissons, The style of actual bridge deck varies between the two viaduct types too. The Barnstaple route model bridge will have a flat deck surrounding the timber baulks )which the rails are mounted on) whereas the corrugations of the Plymouth route bridge had to be allowed for in the height of the assembly. This means that the aluminium deck on the Barnstaple route model will need to be at a different height to maintain similar heights and allow the levelling sledge to be used across the pair. Operationally, the route across the Barnstaple viaduct will have a 40mph speed restriction but the need to stop and collect/deliver single line tokens (15mph max) at the junction signal box will negate that. Ongoing progress The bridge end plates are now machine screwed in place on the Barnstaple bridge baseframe. The revised 'shared leg' adjustable support arrangement is working well to keep the river frames level. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Aft'noon all, TG is in correction mode at the moment. The 25mm discrepancy between the Plymouth route viaduct deck and the Templot print was down to an alteration made between the scenic section only print and the complete end to end layout print. I wasn't happy with the compromise available by tweaking the Templot plan and opted to move the viaduct deck with the associated problem of two unnecessary 12mm holes in the river surface to fill and disguise. A 100mm length of 12mm dia. clear acrylic rod has been ordered so that two discs can the sliced off, sanded flat, painted, bonded into place and covered with the surface varnish effect. The clip includes the plate glass levelling sledge which is working well to flatten/average the cork surface. Also, another session of experiments with river surface effects is looking promising. The varnish settles & flattens on the polycarbonate and progressive applications obviously build the effect. I'm looking for no flat polycarbonate in the end result, rather a wide range of linked and convincing varnishwork This image from a currently unknown photographer demonstrates the more common surface effect which I'm trying to recreate. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Aft'noon all, Another day with the layout has seen a new approach to stiffening the 2mm aluminium sheet deck applied to the Barnstaple viaduct deck...aluminium angle machine screwed along the length of the deck. The work so far (waiting for flatting on the plate glass) can be seen on the clip. The repair to the river/baseframe as a result of having to reposition one end of the Plymouth route bridge can also be seen. Two slices were taken from the acrylic rod/flatted, polished and bonded into place. The varnish surface effect is yet to be added, although the repairs will be masked by the correctly located brass caissons. The first 6 23mm dia brass tubes for the Barnstaple route viaduct have arrived from Eileen's. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Evenin' all, Whilst waiting for components for the Plymouth viaduct more progress has been made on the Barnstaple route viaduct. Before any track is laid the trackbeds will be levelled across the pair of bridges at the same time....therefore the same level of urgency applies to each. These clips show the very different nature of the Barnstaple bridge deck...inc, the one piece deck surface braced beneath by at least one full length sliced 'L' section. Several of the machine screws had to be removed and their recesses drilled out/screws replaced in order for the track bed to be sanded absolutely flat. The technique of building the track for this bridge on polycarbonate baulks is still being worked out but either way the crucial components of the structure have to be flat and square. The country end pair of bridge sections will have parallel sides but other bridge sections towards the double junction will taper to accomodate the diverging trackwork. Thin brass sheet will form the bridge sides...this will be machine screwed to the underside of the deck. Received wisdom from JFS of the Scalefour Society against the use of polycarbonate for the mock timber baulks onto which the bridge rails/chairs will be bonded, favours instead the use of laser cut plywood strips (to the same dimensions, courtesy of York modelmaking) due to the ease of correcting the inevitable changes in the track formation over time compared with the polycarbonate/plastic chair approach. 40 off 7mm x 3mm x 230mm ply strips have been ordered. Once these arrive then the Barnstaple route bridge deck can be adjusted to the correct height and the supports/caissons produced. A Pictroller (Finney & Smith) and associated power supply have been ordered to test suitability with the modern Dapol/Bachmann/Hornby loco motors. The broken inductors on the Dapol Beattie well tank with the Ultrascale P4 wheelsets have been replaced (more ordered as spares from DCC Supplies), the loco re-assembled and tested on the test track. Initial tests with my trusty H&M Duette are ok but I'm anticipating a significant improvement with the aforementioned Pictroller. If all goes as expected then the Duette will be retired. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Evenin' all, During preparations for the test track track build for TG and in consultation with one of the Scalefour area groups, it was pointed out by more than one experienced track builder that the outside double slip had several unsupported 'V's within its construction....this led to to an open consultation on the Templot club site. The outcome of which is this suggested modification to the double slip area of the track plan. This means re-doing some of the baseframe preparations but should at least result in a workable alternative Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted May 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 15, 2014 Dave, I've just been tweaking the Templot design for Pencarrow Bridge and I'm in awe at the geometry you've got in the junction area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Hi Chris, Whilst I designed the layout using Templot and aimed for flowing, sinuous and constantly curving trackwork, I can't take credit for the latest alterations to the former double slip area. John Palmer on Templot club has remodelled that part for me as a result of potential problems with the building of the slip itself. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Aft'noon all, The double outside slip (original intention) was already a very rare beast, unlikely to be found in such a situation. Its direct replacement would need to be the full scissors crossover seen in the most recent image (above). However, during the solving of the potential building issues with the slip (many thanks to John Palmer for his assistance on Templot club) the opportunity has been taken to produce a much more likely track arrangement for the situation, one which allows the necessary movements on and around the goods lines but without unnecessary (and expensive) P&C...see Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Share Posted May 29, 2014 Evenin' all, Current progress with TG centres on corrections/amendments to the Templot trackplan and preparation of one of the early baseframes for a test track build with the help of the Scalefour Society area groups which I attend. John Palmer of Templot club has kindly assisted with the new down main to goods loop crossover/goods loop to up main pointwork on the Templot plan...see below Freight arriving from the Exeter direction will now be able to detach traffic in the goods loop ready for the station pilot/clay dries trip loco to attend to. Track building components are about to be ordered from C&L for the test track build. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 Mornin' all, Current work on TG has involved preparation of the test frame ready for transporting to one of the Scalefour Society area groups on modelling evenings. This has included fitting half inch ply protection strips to each side of the frame so that the waterproof cover isn't damaged by the aluminium edges and the weight of the frame is spread along the ply. Two lengths of seat belt webbing are then tied around the frame/cover so that it can be lifted/carried easily. Levelling/sealing of the cork surface can now be completed ready for the Templot printout to be bonded to the cork surface. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Useful reference images gratefully received (for modelling the bridge deck) include these of the Tamerton viaduct (a short distance from the Tavy viaduct): Tamerton viaduct.jpg Tamerton viaduct 4.jpg Are those bridge chairs on the longitudinal timbers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 Hi P, Yes they are. I've sourced laser cut timbers/beams for TG (for the bridge sections not using conventional sleepering) and am in the process of gathering together the necessary track components for the test track build. Rgds Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Evenin' all, Gathering together the components & tools for the test track build is all but complete. This clip shows why the first design of thin fiddle yard frames was unsatisfactory...propping one corner to a height of 2 inches still sees the other 3 corners on the ground i.e. 2 inches of possible twist in the frame...future thin frames will have a completely revised box section construction. This problem doesn't affect the other frames constructed so far, as they are to a different design The cork surface is now fully sealed with 'Titebond' yellow wood glue and sanded flat. Photo Mount by 3M has been used to bond the Templot plan to the cork surface. Track construction is now beginning and will include a section built on lonigtudinal timbers instead of sleepers as per the bridges/viaducts trackwork. Small holes in the Templot plan will allow the adhesive bonding the timbers to the cork to pass through the Templot plan. The test frame will only be used to practice trackwork construction...obviously, any flexing of the baseframe will cause the cork to become more likely to fail. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY NORWOOD Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hi Dave How did you put your You Tube videos onto your thread. I have just made a stepper motor operated turntable control and I have made a video and put on You Tube, I have been trying to put it onto my Blog with no joy. So do you do this please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hi Ray, My new laptop arrived less than an hour ago, after the old one packed up and a Notebook sent as an incorrect replacement had to be returned. Thus, I'm part way through the setting up procedure. If you already have your U tube account set up and have uploaded pictures/videos to your U tube site then simply cut/paste the web address of your chosen image into your RMWeb post. Readers can then click on the link and view the image(s). Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY NORWOOD Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hi Dave Thank you very much. For some reason I thought there was more into just copy and paste. A big thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 Aft'noon all, Current progress with TG is purely track design related and for this reason is based on my Scalefour Society thread, see http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3542&start=100 There is also a thread on Templot Club under Track Building topics. http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2455&forum_id=6 Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Mornin' all, Whilst the trials & tribulations of learning how to build the track for TG continue with the valuable assistance of several Templot club & Scalefour Society members, the arrival of the festive season/decorating the house for a month of get togethers has made the conservatory unavailable for modelling. Thus, the opportunity to examine some of the stock planned for TG presents itself: one use for which the Okehampton route between Plymouth and Exeter was highly convenient was as a diversionary route, indeed, there were regular workings by WR crews over the line....similarly SR crews learnt the route via Dawlish as a potential diversionary route for them. I will be including a diverted, Warship hauled, WR main line freight on TG as well as a diverted loco hauled passenger train. The freight vehicles which will appear in the diverted consist include tank wagons from the Associated Octel plant at Hayle, compressor kit from Holman brothers at Camborne, vanfits of bagged china clay from the St Austell area, empty presflos in a special oil well cement flow returning to Kent and empty/spare Esso class B tanks en route to Fawley. Images which offer useful insights into such trains include: https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/10872961056/in/set-72157635358450067 This 1970 picture of 7C57 near Truro gives a feel for the type of consist being considered. The 1969 Working Manual describes a class 7 freight as an express freight train not fully fitted but with brake force in accordance with Table E2. Several of the wagon types in the train had a top speed of 45mph at this time and that is the likely limit for this train. The date setting for the model consist will be 1967, with appropriate headcode from a period WTT. Reversal at Plymouth would probably have included ensuring that the 'fitted head' of the train was remarshalled to still be behind the loco, this would retain the class 7 headcode by ensuring adequate brake force for the journey to Exeter. A quick check on key dates to ensure validity of a late 1967 date for this consist: First lowfit/FW Berk demountable bromine tank combinations (not the later conflat A/bromine demountable tank pairings) ran at this time...suitable images/drawings now being sought. I now have several close up images of the lowfit/FW Berk bromine tank combination at this time but cannot post these. I will however state which details are copied from them to assist others with accurate period modelling of same. FWB tanks 1-3 appeared in 1967 but FWB4 appeared 1968-70. 1967 was the last full year of the Okehampton line as a through route I have yet to see pre-1968 UIC wagon renumbering of ferrytanks. Evidence of similar tanks in pre UIC numbering guise at this time can be found in the Tourret Petroleum tank wagons volume. Esso 5001 series class A tanks built 1963/64 but some were obviously in class B traffic by the time of the 1970 image below, so as to be allowed as part of this consist. Only 500303 & 500304 of the CR bromine tanks were running at this time and had just been completed, thus one of these will be modelled and in ex works condition. I now have a late 1967 image of one of these two tanks but cannot share it. I will however state which details are gained from the image to aid others with accurate period modelling of same. I now have mid-1960s images of the Grazebrook tanks but cannot post them. Again I will refer to any useful details copied to assist anyone else with accurate period modelling of same. The first wagon behind the loco is a Charles Roberts bromine tank in the aforementioned Octel traffic for which I have access to the works GA drawing....although this shows the later suspension type fitted to tanks too late for that modelled for TG. This will be a complete scratchbuild in brass/nickel silver. Supplementary evidence for the dimensions relating to this wagon (and many others in the different diagram books reproduced on the site) are available from http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Book_01_Issue.pdf The Barrowmore site contains diagrams for many items of BR rolling stock....these diagrams are useful as a guide to the dimensions of the vehicles to which they apply but a good dose of caution is advisable. It is better to have a range of supporting evidence e.g. from works drawings, direct measurements of prototype vehicles, comparative known dimensions from similar vehicles etc rather than just accepting those from the diagrams. The GA for the CR bromine tank quotes the following dimensions: End view 8' 5 1/2" over footsteps 5' 8 1/2" buffer centres 4' 0" wide platform on top of the tank barrel 10' 8 13/16" overall height Side view 2' 0 1/2" buffer length (UIC) 29' 1" length over buffers 25' 0" over headstocks 15' 9" wheelbase 10" solebar/main frame depth 3' 1" rail top to bottom of solebar/main frame 4' 4 1/2" wheel centre to headstock at non-platform end 4' 10 1/2" wheel centre to headstock at platform end 4' 7 1/4" barrel outside diameter 9' 0 11/16" rail top - top of platform mounted on top of barrel 6' 3" wide platform on top of barrel Barrel centre line common to wheelbase centre Flat lidded cover on top of barrel is 3' 8 1/2" offset from centre line Top of platform to hand rail centre line is 7 15/32" Domed cover on top of main barrel is 3' 8 1/2" offset 1' 3 3/4" buffer head diameter 1 metre wheel diameter 6' 3" solebars/main frame members back to back There are a couple of particularly useful images of the CR bromine tank on this web page http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43018-demountable-bromine-tanks/page-2 useful because they are taken from an elevated vantage point and show numerous details not seen on many images. These tanks carried various numbers during their time with BR...it is obviously important to match the correct number with the period which you wish to model. Next up are 2 wagons of compressor plant from Camborne. I already have 2 similar pieces of plant in 4mm, whilst the flat wagon will become a Parkside conflat A body with (Rumney chassis), similarly the associated steel high. Note the repeat pairing further along the train...suggesting that there are already portions in the train convenient for any remarshalling point along the journey. The four vanfits will be modelled with 4 Parkside bodies (mounted on Rumney chassis) and weathered with china clay deposits. Two random wooden bodied opens again on Rumney etched chassis will replicate those towards the rear of the train, whilst the two 14T unfitted chlorine tanks will also be complete scratchbuilds based on extensive measurements and footage which I have of one of the preserved examples on the Embsay railway. The 1971 image below, near Moorswater, includes a yellow demountable tank in bromine traffic from Hayle. I intend to include two of these in the consist as well but will be closely checking my copy of the 1969 Working Manual and the knowledge of one or two wagon experts to ensure that my model consist complies with the dangerous goods regulations in force at the time https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/9709821399/in/set-72157635358450067 I am fortunate to have had various useful images sent to me over time by fellow enthusiasts. The 1970 picture at Marazion below, courtesy of Trevor Mann, illustrates more of the variety of chemical tank traffic from Hayle. There is a Grazebrook bromine tank in the consist (ahead of the Esso tanks), which will also need to be a complete scratchbuild as a model. The aforementioned Esso 36T class B (former class A) tanks can be seen....there is a preserved example of one of these at Brechin from which I'll be seeking extensive measurements/footage. The demountables nearer the loco are bromine flasks on conflat A's, both are thought to be Octel owned tanks. Possible destinations include Ormerod & Taylor of Todmorden (transhipped at Burnley), Hickson & Welch of Castleford or a currently unknown customer who had the tanks transhipped at Diss. We have access to a couple of 1972 colour images of them heading for Diss....the livery of the tanks is white with yellow dome covers. The rearmost visible wagon in the consist is an unfitted 14T chlorine tank. This image from a currently unknown photographer gives a good impression of the Octel silver grey carried by the bromine and ED tanks Colour images such as this one below are rare but well worth searching for, as they give excellent insights into the liveries of chemical tanks of the late 1960s https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/12562939145/in/set-72157635116765434 Working closely with other modellers interested in such traffics has ensured that I have a supply of suitable Associated Octel transfers available for the planned models. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 Mornin' all, Scratchbuilding wagons can seem like a daunting task esp. when several designs are involved. I'm tackling 3 scratchbuilds of Associated Octel tanks simultaneously, with a variety of resources available: the Hurst Nelson 14T chlorine tanks are still with us...2 are preserved at 'The Embsay Railway'. Having arranged access to one of the tanks with them, I spent half of one day scrawling all over it....measuring and filming. These clips are useful fare for anyone contemplating scratchbuilding as they show the way in which the frame was constructed. As always with preserved and indeed any wagon, one needs to consider any alterations made in later life/by later owners which affects any model that you may wish to represent esp. the early years of the prototype the Charles Roberts bromine tanks are, as far as I know, extinct but access to a works GA drawing is the next best thing and also provides some useful clues for the third scratchbuild....the Grazebrook bromine tank. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/dowbromine/h351a58a1#h351a58a1 As far as I am aware these are not only extinct but several years of research have yielded no clue as to the existence of a works drawing. Therefore, images from various angles, a basic diagram and comparisons with similar wagons, such as the CR bromine tank are all that guide the construction of a P4 model. An important detail for both the Charles Roberts and Grazebrook tanks will emerge from Dave Frank's workshop at Lanarkshire Model Supplies in the coming Spring/Summer and that is the distinctive 2ft UIC buffer....a few of the test castings should arrive promptly for these scratchbuilds, the challenge is to have the frames ready to receive them. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Don't forget to have a couple of empty 22t fitted Plates, which were used to deliver pig iron to Compair's foundry (photos on Andy Kirkham's site, IIRC). Apart from the Conflats for the AO demountable tanks, a number of Lowfits were used, with a wood framing nailed to the deck to locate the tank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 Mornin' Brian, I have components for 4 conflat A's on order (2 for demountable bromine tanks) but need to check that the drawing/dimensions apply to the correct type before tackling the tanks. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Aft'noon all, My chosen route to wagon building inc. scratchbuilding is of the order of 'the advised compromise' which matures into 'if it looks right, then it probably is'. Thus, I gather together as many accurately dimensioned principle components as possible....always within a millimetre of those specified and often within .5mm. I'll list the materials chosen for these three scratchbuilds comparatively throughout...you can judge for yourselves whether the route/techniques and therefore the progressive outcomes are worthy. Key images for the Charles Roberts bromine tanks are located in 'Private Owner Freight Wagons on British Railways' by David Larkin, Paul Bartlett's Zenfolio website, 'International Train-Ferry Wagons in colour' & 'Modern Private Owner Wagons on British Rail' by David Ratcliffe I have access to several images at Crumps wagon works, Connah's quay and Associated Octel, Hayle for which I have no permission to replicate them on this thread but I will state when details are taken from such images. The works GA drawing is obviously crucial...I will quote from it but can't replicate it. A useful sketch/diagram with dimensions is E385...available from the 'Barrowmore Model Railway Club' site Key images for the Grazebrook bromine tanks are located in 'International Train Ferry Wagons in colour' by David Ratcliffe, 'Wagons of the Final Years of British Railways' by David Larkin (rare elevated end section view), Paul Bartlett's Zenfolio Wagon website. Again I have access to images at Crumps of Connah's quay and Associated Octel, Hayle for which I have no permission to replicate them here but I will mention the source for any information used. Again the 'Barrowmore Model Railway Club' site can offer a useful/dimensioned sketch/diagram....E238. Key sources for images of the Hurst Nelson chlorine tanks include those which I filmed at Embsay and will progressively include in this thread, Paul Bartlett's Zenfolio site, 'British Railway Private Owner Tank Wagons' by R. Tourret, 'Railway Archive No16'. Materials used for P4 models: Main frames....brass U section 3.5mm & 4.0mm from Eileen's (the 1.5mm depth of the 'U' dimension is excessive and will be reduced....1.06mm overall is suggested for the main frame thickness...taken from measurements on the CR GA drawing). Charles Roberts (CR) bromine....from GA 10"...10 x 25.4 (to convert to mm) divided by 76.2 (to convert to 4mm scale) = 3.33mm Grazebrook (GR) bromine....unknown but the 2ft UIC buffer is standard and comparing like for like images of both the CR & GR bromine tanks suggests a common sized frame material. Hurst Nelson (HN) 14T Chlorine....direct measurement of 25.2cm equates to 3.31mm in 4mm. The limited upload capacity for this thread makes it difficult to display a full sized GA underframe drawing for the CR bromine tank at a high standard of magnification. I've included the two ends of the underframe to demonstrate that some careful examination/interpretation of the drawings is required. Also, the headstock at the platform end of the wagon is wider than at the non-platform end Evidence for the different headstock widths can be seen in the ex works image of a CR bromine tank towards the bottom of this web-page http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43018-demountable-bromine-tanks/page-2 The same image is useful for checking by eye, the suggestion above re, the depth of the 'U' of the main frames being roughly a third of of its height....this sort of detail observation is a useful check and will be important for the appearence of the finished model. Ongoing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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