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Tor Giffard 2 1951-71 in P4 - North Devon/Cornwall LSWR (former routes)


Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

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...no worries Jason...I would imagine that lots of people dropped by to say hi and admire your efforts with the layout.

 

Good to see you all and have the opportunity for a chat.

 

Ongoing progress has included a re-working of the weighting arrangement on the hoist. This is now easily detachable by removing one bolt and yet will hold a considerable weight of solid steel bar (2ft lengths) to counterbalance the heaviest frame.

 

Another visit to the nearest serious steel stockholder (Mellards of Stoke) today produced 6 lengths of 40 x 25mm bar. The next destination was Screwfix for another 10 high speed slitting discs, these make easy work of cutting the butch sections. The solid steel was sliced into approx 2ft lengths once home again....the result is a heavily weighted hoist base which should now be able to deal with any of the frames for TG without any risk of toppling.  

 

Two of the new Dapol Westerns are now due in March - one in green to become a weathered D1037 Western Empress and one in maroon to become a weathered D1040 Western Queen. Nameplates from Fox transfers and P4 wheelsets from Ultrascale ordered for both.

 

The four cable reels have now been fitted on the crankshaft of the hoist with cables in place and cut to length. The next job is to devise and fit the deadlock to prevent any frame from falling to the ground, the lock will be disengaged by pressing down on a foot operated treadle, keeping both hands free for operating the twin crank wheels. Releasing the treadle will cause the mechanism to drop back and lock the crankwheels/hoist mechanism in the current position. 6 pulley wheels will be fittted into the headgear of the hoist and a clamping arrangement devised for the cables at their free end/point where they attach to a frame for lifting.   

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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  • 3 weeks later...

Mornin' all,

 

After a poor start to 2013 (3 funerals of friends and family in the first two months) progress is happening again with TG. This clip shows work done on the hoist mechanism to ensure that a frame under lift can be safely held and moved in the horizontal plane so that it can be attached to the wall rack, or else have its workroom legs attached. The mechanism will be weighted so that the 'normal' position is with the footpedal raised and the handcranks locked. Depressing the footpedal disengages the twin crank wheel locks and allows the mechanism to be wound. The cable reels employ free DVDs given away with our newspaper as cable retaining sides. The pulleys in the gantry will be the next stage of work tackled. The first Dapol Western can be seen under test on 'OO' track prior to its P4 conversion.

 

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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Evenin' all,

 

Another solid day on TG. All hoist linkages are now secured with correct length 8mm pins/washers and Nylok nuts to keep all in place. All pulleys have been fitted in the gantry and cableways prepared/cables fed through. The hoist is now operationally complete but for the 'L' section which will be fitted to the end of the cables to allow them to be bolted to the detachable 'L' section stretchers under each frame. The first detachable stretcher can also be seen in this clip being fitted under a fiddle yard frame

 

 

The twin vertical 'L' sections can now be screwed to the walls on each side of the room, the twin stretchers (spanning the room) then fastened to the ceiling. Positioning the hoist in front of the wall verticals to which the hoisted frame is to be attached then allows a pair of 'L' section slides to be fitted between the verticals/hoist and the frame slid along towards the wall before being secured to the verticals.

 

The hoist has now undergone a test lift with one of the fiddle yard frames. The two short diagonal angle supports in the headgear of the hoist have been replaced with supports reaching almost to the front of the hoist due to some distortion as the lifting cables took the strain. Also, one of the hand crank locking mechanisms distorted under the strain of locking the height of the lift....this is now being modified. The diameter of the hand crank wheels and thus the amount of winding effort required to lift the weight of the frame was not an issue, with the lift happening easily and smoothly. Moving the hoist with the frame suspended was without issue too, as was the capacity of the weighted base to counterbalance the weight of the frame.

 

I've now cleared the walls on both sides of the room to just over 12 feet to allow two of the six feet frames to be stowed end to end on each side. These will protrude 2' 3" into the room on each side. Todays task is to fit the first arch of 'L' section to the walls and ceiling and test the hoist in terms of positioned the first frame for bolting to the wall mounted angle. 

 

Once the first fiddle yard frame and the linked traverser are safely stowed on the walls then a group of four frames which include the two large girder bridge structures will be assembed in the centre of the room.  .    

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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Aft'noon all,

 

TG is passing through another key stage at the mo where the workroom is being cleared of everything not related to the layout. In this clip the hoist can be seen in action lifting one of the fiddle yard frames high onto the wall racking system, at the limit of its vertical reach. I'm currently making a set of long adjustable supports which will raise a frame at such height a few more inches so that no space is wasted above the frame. The second arch of wall racking will be added nearer the window for more 6ft x 2ft frames and the lateral supports for the frames will link across both. Once the central room space is completely clear a group of four frames will be assembled in the open floor space. Ultimately, at least 4 of the frames will be stored vertically in each rack position, giving a 16+ rack capacity. 

 

 

An attractive suggestion for the layout has been for a Lynton & Barnstaple style narrow gauge railway to approach TG on the opposite side of the River Torridge to the main line station and terminate next to a small ferry. This would then have conveyed passengers across the river towards the main line station. The narrow gauge line would pass through an arch beneath each of the large girder bridges.

 

The solution to raising a frame positioned on the wall rack at maximium height by the hoist but which still needs raising a further 4 - 6 inches towards the ceiling so as to avoid wasting vertical space, has been to create a set of 4 'sky' legs with a full 1ft of adjustable height. This means that the hoist can be released once the legs are in position and the leg adjusters then used to achieve the final position for the frame.

 

Two full days have now been given over to emptying the workroom of all but TG related items....I didn't realise that I had so much stuff! Another day should see the last two frames relocated onto wall racks and a start made to building a group of four frames together on the now open floor space. 

 

Dave Franks looks to be doing a good job with his Southern buffer stops....2 of each ordered for TG. Its taken a while to track down a copy of Southern Wagons Vol 1 but ABE books have come up trumps. At £39 not a giveaway but an important book for the period stock.

 

Current work involves making and fitting the brackets etc for the existing frames, to allow them to be bolted to the wall racks. There is just the linked traverser to fit with brackets and hoist into its wall position now. 

 

Southern Wagons Vol 1 with its LSWR content is an impressive earlier wagon publication and leads naturally towards Vol 4 on BR Southern region wagons. Luckily ABE were also good for this one and it was duly ordered.  

 

Latest progress has involved making legs for the bridges end/station frame and getting the linked traverser up onto the wall racks. 

 

There is now space to build the twin bridge frames and 1st station frame together. 

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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  • 4 weeks later...

Evenin' all,

 

Clearing of the workroom space for purely TG related stuff has been done, the 'T' section aluminium and plate glass for the two large bridge frames has been ordered and the 'bridge ends to station' frame is now on the conservatory workbench for fitting of the other end plate (seen in clip after slicing from 2mm sheet) and 'L' section side members/1 mm aluminium sheet scenery mounts. The linked traverser and fiddle yard frames are now safely stowed high on the wall racking. See clip

 

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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Evenin' all,

 

Another busy day with TG has seen the first scenic dividing rails, 1mm plate backing and Celotex (insulation board) applied to the station - bridges frame. The clip starts with the lovely spectacle of 3 male siskins competing for the niger seed on our garden feeder. Considerations whilst working on this stage include: remembering that the levelling sledge for creating the finished track bed can't be used until at least 2 frames are bolted together and properly levelled, therefore, nothing can be added to the surface of the frame adjacent to the trackbeds until the levelling has been done: there will be many levels/height differences on TG and blending the Celotex between features and frames is easiest done as the frames are constructed. Once the heights at the edges of each frame are decided then the 1mm aluminium sheet frame dividers can be profiled and added to the frame sides to protect the delicate edges of the Celotex. Evo-Stik is being used to bond the insulation board to the aluminium sheet and to itself.

 

 

The embankment on this side of the station will be a relatively gentle slope down to the wide River Torridge.

 

Design considerations for the bridge frames include how to eliminate any potential flex within them by using 4 longitudinals of T section beneath the glass river surface and also how to hide aluminium T section uprights within the masonry arch/embankment at each end of the bridge. There will be a 2mm aluminium sheet deck atop the 4 lengths of T section and this will form the river bed. There will then be a 1 inch gap up to the glass water surface which will be weathered to suitable shades for the depths of a river. The basic track deck of the bridge will be a curving length of 2mm aluminium sheet which will be secured to the hidden uprights at each end, thus creating a strong and rigid bridge structure/frame assembly. The more delicate brass sections will then be added outside of the aluminium. Both bridges/frames will be built up to the point where the levelling sledge can be used across 3 or 4 frames together, inc. the bridge - station frame. The glass supplier (Leek glass) is providing a roll of double sided, padded tape (as used in glazing units) and a double layer of this will cushion/separate the 6mm toughened glass from any aluminium as well as anchoring it within the frames. The glass panels for the river are 4ft by 2ft for a visible water width of approx 3ft. 

 

Having given due consideration to the ideas for the narrow gauge line on the layout, I've decided against it and the trackplan will remain as it was.  

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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Evening Dave

 

Looks like you are making some great progress on those new fangled metal boards and fancy mechanisms! The Westerns look fantastic but I'm currently resisting any moves to get one on the basis that funds are currently diverted into 7mm stuff. Not sure how that happened but it makes a really enjoyable change.

 

Al the best, keep cracking on - now you are getting off the precision engineering stuff I'll be able to join in!

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Hi Chris,

 

I'll hold you to that...it would be good to share a beer and get a different insight into the layout (I hesitate to describe much of my metalwork as precision though).

 

I've not had chance to check out your 7mm activities yet but it is on the 'to do' list.

 

Are you going to Railex?

 

Cheers

 

Dave  

 

 

Ongoing progress

 

The major clearout of the workroom and change of worksite positions means that the aluminium slicing and shaping with the disc cutter is now done in the shed. The pallet on which the 2m x 1m  sheet is delivered is stood on end against the shed side before the nylon straps are cut. The pallet then acts as an ideal support for clamping sections of sheet before marking out and getting to work with the disc cutter. Also, the dust and debris from the cutting is more easily cleared up. 

 

The L section end plates, 2mm sheet and T sections for the Plymouth line bowstring bridge frame are now on the plate glass reference surface being clamped and machine screwed together. The MRJ river articles by Gordon Gravett using acrylic sheet and varnish etc are looking more attractive with each re-reading and gathering together materials for a few experiments is now only a matter of time. More 1mm aluminium sheet and Celotex sections have been added to the bridges-station frame in preparation for embankment profiling to get under way.  

 

The Templot print for the track crossing the bridge will be carefully positioned on 2mm sheet so that the bridge deck can be marked out and sliced to shape. The print will then be positioned and marked on the frame sheet deck so that the caisson positions can be marked out.

 

Discussion with the local glass company and a couple of plastics suppliers suggests that acrylic has a limited lifespan and starts to degrade/crack over time.

Clear polycarbonate is considerably more expensive and prices vary dramatically...£218 for 3 x 4' x 2' panels in 4mm from our local glass supplier to £36 each from http://www.theplasticpeople.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=207{31}952{txt_26}1220{imptxt_26}48{txt_23}610{imptxt_23}24 . Two panels of clear polycarbonate have been ordered from the latter to allow experiments wiith water surfaces to get underway. The first embankment profiling experiments on the Celotex have been successful on the bridges to station panel. The Plymouth bridge frame is being constructed with 4 x T section longitudinals.

 

First thoughts on spacing the polycarbonate sheet from the 2mm aluminium sheet involve 5mm nylon ball bearings. Scattered randomly, painted and super glued to the aluminium sheet these should guarantee a level and supported river surface with the bearings giving the appearance of rocks at a distance esp. through a dark opaque river colour. 

 

Full marks to Barkston Plastics...the first 2 sheets of correctly sized and nicely cut polycarbonate were delivered today along with 7 pots of the Tamiya clear varnish from 'Antics'. 200 x 5mm nylon ball bearing spacers ordered from    http://www.gmsball.co.uk/index1.php?wd=1345&ht=583

 

 

Cheers

 

Dave    

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  • 4 weeks later...

Mornin' all,

 

Current work on TG can be seen on this clip: the new technique of clamping aluminium sheet to the pallet which it arrived on, ready for disc cutting is shown in the shed : the bridge to station frame has had what will be the area beneath the station built up ready to bolt to the next frame as it is constructed; the Plymouth bridge frame now has frame end plates for each end (fiddle yard end plate still needs fitting) and can be seen weighted level on the plate glass to ensure that it is drilled and machine screwed square.   

 

 

The first polycarbonate river panels and nylon ball bearing spacers are ready and waiting.  

 

Design work at the mo includes ensuring that the broad river level height is correct relative to the narrower river in the flood channel and bridge pier heights etc. The way in which the frame end plates are mounted on the frame determines the broad river height.

 

Once the bridge to station and Plymouth bridge frames are erected 'end on' to each other and bolted up then the Templot track plan can be placed on the bridge frame and the caisson and arch positions marked ready for the supports to be screwed to the frame.

 

The third incarnation of bolting the adjustable legs to the bottom of the frames is proving much more positive and secure. Once several frames are bolted together then rigidity will multiply with each frame added to the structure.

 

A new technique of sanding the Celotex embankments flat with sandpaper secured flat to a 6 inch x 12 inch piece of plywood is about to be trialled.

 

Todays progress has been fettling the locating dowels between the Plymouth bridge frame and the bridge to station frame.

 

The latest package to arrive from Ultrascale included the second Dapol Western P4 wheelsets and 2 x D8XX Bachmann Warship P4 conversion packs.

 

A disc headcode Dapol Cl 22, D6XX Warship and Maroon Western remain on order.   

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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Hi Dave,

 

As one of your readers, could I make a request for still photos instead of embedded video? I like to be able to look at what you're showing for as long as I need to understand it, and not have it taken away from me because the video is rolling on. I know I could stop it, but then I'd need to be hovering with the mouse the whole time. It's also difficult to go back and give something a closer look when I don't know where on the video it is. I'm interested in your construction techniques, but finding them quite hard to follow through the video clips.

 

Thanks, and best wishes,

 

Alan

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Mornin' Alan,

 

I don't have a still digital camera at the moment so until I do I'll just have to make the clips a little longer. I do try to limit the number of clips on a film so that re-running a particular one doesn't take many seconds. If you have a particular interest in one area then just ask and I'll do a more detailed film of it.

 

Best regards

 

Dave  

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Hi Alan,

 

Resize your browser to show just the video. Then use Irfanview (free: http://www.irfanview.com ) or similar programs to capture video frames at set intervals, say every 2 seconds.

 

Options > Capture menu item. Set the capture for the foreground window, timer interval, max number of shots, and a folder to save them to. Click Start and then start the video playing.

 

Here are a few just quickly captured from the latest video:

 

post-1103-0-06072600-1368616402.jpg

 

post-1103-0-80629700-1368616400.jpg

 

post-1103-0-55087900-1368616399.jpg

 

post-1103-0-19846800-1368616398.jpg

 

post-1103-0-96997100-1368616396.jpg

 

post-1103-0-71577700-1368616395.jpg

 

post-1103-0-33744200-1368616394.jpg

 

Martin.

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Thanks Dave and Martin,

 

I hope I didn't come across as one of those frightful grumblers - there can be way too much of that on this site. I should just put the video to full screen and pause as I go.

 

Good luck with the project: from the thoroughness of the planning I feel sure it's going to be a stunner.

 

Alan

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Hi Alan,

 

The main reason for explaining the process thoroughly as I go along is because I'm unlikely to remember all details of such a complex project once it is finished, therefore the thread acts as an 'aide memoir' for me too. I accept that readers will see that I've had to review certain techniques over time and consequently upgrade them as I go....but if I can make mistakes/learn as I go then I'm sure that anyone else attempting such a project might do similar. 

 

Dave

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Aft'noon all,

 

A small indulgence with the fitting up of the first two scenic section frames on TG has been to create a 'mock up' of progress once the bridges are built, the cork is levelled and the track starts to go down. Here two of the new Dapol Westerns (1037 Western Empress & 1040 Western Queen to be) pose at what will be the station end of the Plymouth route bowstring viaduct.

 

  

 

The maroon Western stands on OO gauge track as the P4 conversion is yet to happen. 

 

Minutes later the P4 conversion was done and the OO track had gone...Wobbly Queen became Western Queen. 

 

Once the backing plates were fitted to the frame end plates and the locating dowels securely and accurately fitted then a start could be made on the Plymouth route bowstring viaduct. The basic dimensions for the viaduct...114ft long bowstring sections and 50ft (200mm in P4) masonry arches came courtesy of a SEMG member and originally from a document held in Plymouth library. These basic dimensions are very similar to those published in 'The Okehampton line' by The Irwell Press. Converting 114ft into millimetres and dividing by 76.2 to bring the sizes into 4mm scale gave me a bowstring section length of approx. 456mm. There will be 3 bowstring sections of this length then a single, narrow masonry arch at each end of the viaduct. I compromised on the arch width to fit the viaduct within the frame length but will be maintaining prototypical dimensions for the bowstring sections where possible. I used a photo which I found on the internet...taken through the cab window of a train passing over the Tavy viaduct to get an accurate idea of how close the inside of the steel arches of the viaduct were to the nearest rail. I used this as the minimum distance and designed the 2mm aluminium bridge deck accordingly. The Templot trackplan for the viaduct section was taped together and had the 3 deck sections marked around the track diagram. The diagram was then taped onto 2mm aluminium sheet and cut out with the disc cutter.          

 

Dave

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Evenin' all

 

This clip includes: the start of construction of the Plymouth route bowstring viaduct...slicing of a 2mm aluminium bridge deck around the Templot viaduct track plan, the 'rough' bridge deck prior to fettling, the polycarbonate sheet being tested for width across the bridge frame (slightly wider than the aluminium frame so that the 'river' surface is continuous as frames are accurately spaced then bolted together), supported by the nylon ball bearings; the newly fitted backing plates behind the frame locating dowels   

 

 

Using a continuous bridge deck anchored into the (masonry) arch at each end of the viaduct will create a tough, stable bridge foundation.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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Mornin' all,

 

These two pictures (from currently unknown photographers) are particularly useful. Southern green and black for the caissons appears to be the livery for the bridge metalwork in the 1978 picture...which I'm happy to replicate. The 'on bridge' picture is useful for gauging the proximity of the track to the bridgework. The track is some way above the lower edge of the bowstring section side member which might lead to a sheet aluminium sandwich technique in order to gain this height separation whilst maintaining an absolutely flat running surface...rigidity of the bridge will be added to using this approach too   

 

 

post-7795-0-43552600-1369300449.png

 

post-7795-0-29303600-1369300492.png

 

The drawing board is out and I'm producing various side views of bowstring section side views. Remembering technical drawing lessons from some time ago...the curved arch of such a structure consists of 3 radii....a tighter radius centre arc with gentler radius outer arcs. 

 

The TG viaduct will have a crossover on the bridge, therefore, the bottom of the rail has to higher than any representation of the longitudinals above the 2mm aluminium sheet deck. 

 

post-7795-0-50185400-1369371162.png

 

The above picture (from a currently unknown photographer) is useful for calculating the height of the bowstring section arched sides. One characteristic of the prototype is that there is little clearance between the tops of trains and the bowstrings spanning the tracks. 

 

A little technical drawing practice has produced a constant radius arc of 38.2cm, achieving the desired height (across the D) of 76.2mm, over the prescribed 456mm length of the bowstring section with the arch striking the deck at a similar 38 degrees..  

 

Shopping list:

 

610 x 305 mm sheets of 22 thou brass for slicing out the bowstring section sides

 

Brass tube equiv. of 8ft diameter caissons...enough for 4....30mm dia. in 4mm scale... already here

 

6mm x 6mm brass L section for securing the arched sides of the bowstring sections to the 2mm aluminium deck of the bridge.

 

Dave

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Hi Alan,

 

...just 3...I had considered etching but current progress is suggesting that I should expect to make changes to my design and fabrication work fairly regularly...etches don't lend themselves easily to that. Almost everything on this layout...bar repetition with adjustable legs and basic frame construction etc is new to me....sods law dictates that once I've mastered a technique then I have to move on to the next and usually dissimilar task.

 

The technique that I have in mind for producing the basic structure of the bridge is not long winded but should give the impressive profile which I seek. The nearest viewpoint is likely to be around 5 feet away, therefore, individual rivets aren't top priority...that said, unless I'm convinced with the result then I'll be fettling it until it does pass muster. 

 

Feel free to comment on what you see...I spend too much time assessing my own project to view it objectively.

 

Dave

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Evenin' all,

 

More design work on the hoof as the Plymouth route bowstring viaduct starts to take shape. The idea of a country lane/track passing through the arch at the station end of the viaduct in order to access cottages on the riverbank has had to be discounted given the height of the trackbed above the water level and the slope of the embankment end required towards water level. Access will now be off the road bridge planned at the Exeter end of the station. The 2mm aluminium sheet verticals visible in the first clip illustrate the limits of the 'masonry' arch at the station end of the bridge. The first bowstring section will sit on the Plymouth end of the arch as per the prototype. The 4 brass caissons are in their approximate positions with the aluminium deck of the bridge providing good alignment for the Templot trackplan. Important considerations include minimum curvature of track for viaducts with lengthy spans...obviously shorter spans would cope with change of track direction more easily...minimum clearances from the uprights all along the bridge also have to be allowed for, as does the end of the bowstring sections relative to the caisson positions esp. on the outside of the curve. The bowstring sections will be a uniform width throughout...the deck was shaped to the angles and lengths of these when it was sliced from the stock sheet   

 

 

Prior to adding any sides to the bowstring sections the viaduct deck will be levelled, the Barnstaple route baseframe and bridge built and the levelling sledge used across the 3 frames, in order to ensure that an absolutely level cork base is ready to take the track. 3 point activation mechanisms & point motor positions need to be identified so that all can be operated from the end(s) of the viaduct.

 

4 x 2 metre lengths of 4mm stainless rod/bar ordered for fastening beneath the bridge deck as stiffening longitudinals to ensure that the deck is rigid. This will allow accurate levelling without the bridge sides being added. The rods will be drilled in two planes at appropriate intervals to take 10 BA bolts...securing them to the deck and allowing the bridge sides to be secured to the structure later. The brass bridge structure will hide the stainless rods.    

 

 

 

Dave

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Evenin' all,

 

Whilst waiting for the necessary bridge and frame components to arrive....more embankment profiling and scenic detail planning is under way. This film starts with a drivers eye view through what will be the Plymouth end of the station towards the bridges. Celotex is being shaped and bonded around the station end of the Plymouth bridge frame.....road vehicles leaving the railway station will drop down the approach road (parallel to the railway embankment) towards the River Torridge. There will be a T jnc by the river with an option to turn right into a 'no through road/track' passing under the twin railway bridges towards the riverside cottages on the other side (there was space after all). The through route will be the left hand turn...this immediately crosses the East Okement river in its stone lined channel just before it empties into the River Torridge. One half of the channel for the East Okement river can be seen marked on the frame end plate nearest the station. Offset frame locating dowels still require fitting to mate with the scenic frame which will extend towards the station. The embankment slope beneath the arch of the viaduct will support the 'stone' arch once it is inserted...in the same style as seen in The Okehampton Line by The Irwell Press. There are numerous ways to model these stages but I'm attempting to model local practice as seen in the pictures of the prototype.       

 

 

Once I'm happy with the profile of the embankments adjacent to the frame joints then I'll shape and fit the aluminium sheet dividing plates to protect the Celotex and create a seamless finish to the embankment.

 

The gradient of the embankment adjacent to where the station will be is too steep and will be blended with the slope of the station approach road once that stage is tackled.  

 

Dave

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Hi Dave,

 

I'm looking at all that metal and thinking back to earlier comments about potential noise problems. It looks like you could possibly try rolling some wagons along at this stage and seeing how they go. That way you could get an idea if you need more insulation between the track and the baseboard. I used bed roll beneath cork on top of styrene sheet in my small boards that you commented on - I think the double insulation was an Iain Rice suggestion, but I felt he undermined it by laying the track on a paper sub-base - paper is a great sounding board, particularly if it's treated with glue to hold ballast down. Anyway, I haven't managed to convert an engine yet, so I don't know what the sound properties on my boards are going to be like, so can't provide any better information. It's more a sort of 'eeek!' feeling.

 

That's probably no help at all.

 

Alan

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