Camden Shed

[lezz01]

Then again Dapol do two nice motorised one's I'm sure you can adapt. In fact Peco still do one you can adapt as well.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233765009325?epid=18038329146&hash=item366d7af7ad:g:jHoAAOSwc1FfnrOH

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233765009315?epid=23038335082&hash=item366d7af7a3:g:AtkAAOSwFvVfnrOH

Regards Lez.

[CRHT1837]

Iain

I have only discovered the forum this week and been a member for a few hours, but I have scanned through the 10 years or so that it has been active. The technical excellence  and knowledge on display is truly impressive and I doubt I have anything to contribute. Having said that, I have helped with the extension of the Copenhagen Fields model railway into part of the King's Cross goods depot, and my name now appears on the model with a 'business partner' as one of the traders in potatoes! 

But I do hope to draw on the expertise of the forum.  I am very engaged with Camden's railway heritage, and particularly Camden Goods Yard,  through Camden Railway Heritage Trust, which I founded in January 2007. As well as preserving and restoring this heritage, we are trying to create greater awareness of its significance and open it up to the public.

I believe your model of the passenger locomotive shed is to be viewed from the front. Camden Council has plans to improve Dumpton Place and this creates an opportunity to reveal the heritage. The wall has very recently had the render removed (the photo predates this).   The removal of the render has not revealed the infill to the former opening, but perhaps an expert builder/bricklayer would have the forensic skills to examine the wall and report on what is original and what has been replaced (for example, the coping stones are not all from the same date). Then we can make a feature in the wall of the original entrance to the locomotive shed. There are granite steps at the end of Dumpton Place that we believe led to the doorway, implying that the doorway was raised a little above street level. We would like to see the steps restored to some resemblance of originality, as these may be the last vestiges of the MPD.

I would be very interested in any photographs of the doorway. I assume you are intending to model the footbridge and will extend this to the opening in the wall at the end of Dumpton Place.

There are many other projects involving the goods yard that I would like to share with the forum, if interested, not least the creation of a model of the winding engines and rope haulage between Camden and Euston.

 

Peter

[CRHT1837]

Iain

While the engine shed is no more, some of the facilities that the drivers, firemen and other staff used remain. Stephenson House was, of course, the hostel for long-distance steam locomotive drivers/firemen, built in 1928. It has been preserved externally, despite a suspicious fire. Primrose Hill station was adapted in the mid 1950s to provide a club with beer cellar, bar and dance hall for BR staff. They did not have much time to enjoy this.

 

Peter

[1BCamden]

On 25/06/2021 at 04:11, CRHT1837 said:

Iain

While the engine shed is no more, some of the facilities that the drivers, firemen and other staff used remain. Stephenson House was, of course, the hostel for long-distance steam locomotive drivers/firemen, built in 1928. It has been preserved externally, despite a suspicious fire. Primrose Hill station was adapted in the mid 1950s to provide a club with beer cellar, bar and dance hall for BR staff. They did not have much time to enjoy this.

 

Peter

Hi Peter,

great to find you here, trust you are well, best regards Stanley 

[CRHT1837]

Hi Stanley

Yes, I am feeling rather abashed at only discovering it now.  At the same time, not being a modeller, I don't want to divert the focus too much for my purposes.

But, to show you some of what we have started, see the following Youtube clip. It does have a bearing on Camden Shed.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkaEmvDOIYM

 

I trust you too are well and look forward to sharing news.

Peter

[92220]

Thank you Peter.

I only have one view of the gate in Dumpton Place, from this G. Freeman Allen book:

 

 

I have taken a snap of it here:

 

 

not sure whether I am allowed to, and will remove it if I ought to.

 

Iain

[BMacdermott]

Hello Iain

 

And one can only wonder at how much that car numberplate must be worth today!

 

Walking through that doorway was always full of excited anticipation!

 

Brian

[dggar]

5 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Iain

 

And one can only wonder at how much that car numberplate must be worth today!

 

Walking through that doorway was always full of excited anticipation!

 

Brian

Yes, I've been through there a couple of times,(about 59 yrs ago)

[CRHT1837]

5 hours ago, 92220 said:

Thank you Peter.

I only have one view of the gate in Dumpton Place, from this G. Freeman Allen book:

 

 

I have taken a snap of it here:

 

 

not sure whether I am allowed to, and will remove it if I ought to.

 

Iain

Thanks, Iain. That is very helpful. I must now try to establish whether this doorway replaced a larger entrance. It does appear very unprepossessing as an entrance to such an important shed.

 

Peter

[CF MRC]

On 26/06/2021 at 12:12, 92220 said:

Thank you Peter.

I only have one view of the gate in Dumpton Place, from this G. Freeman Allen book:

 

 

I have taken a snap of it here:

 

 

not sure whether I am allowed to, and will remove it if I ought to.

 

Iain

It definitely looks as if the doorway was narrowed at some point as there are tell-tale changes in the brick work either side of the opening. 
 

Tim

Edited June 29, 2021 by CF MRC

[92220]

On 29/06/2021 at 09:09, CF MRC said:

It definitely looks as if the doorway was narrowed at some point as there are tell-tale changes in the brick work either side of the opening. 
 

Tim

 

Thanks, Tim.

 

I was wondering whether the original doorway was to the right, aligned with the wider steps and bricked over, and the one in this photo was put in later.

Any thoughts welcome.

And I feel privileged that you have visited this Camden Shed thread: my admiration for Copenhagen Fields is huge.

 

Iain

[dggar]

I’ve come across this you-tube video from 2014, which may be of interest.

The relevant bits are from 1 min 50 sec up to 4 min 55 sec.

 

It follows the path of the old Down Empty Carriage Line.

( I believe is now known as Line X) under the original 4 main lines.

 

At 2 min.33 sec on the right are the remains of the old Signal box from 1953.

From here it dives under the main lines to emerge on the western side.

 

It then enters the tunnel under Parkway.

After exiting the tunnel (3 min.35 sec) you can see the position of the exit of the

route of the Up Empty Carriage line (Rat ‘ole) on the left. There is now a big metal structure on the old track bed.

 

After passing the site of the old MPD the Regent Park  Road bridge is at 4 min 22sec. and Primrose Hill Tunnel at 4 min 50 sec.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CN8ntbsdNI

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by dggar

[92220]

On 24/06/2021 at 17:58, CRHT1837 said:

Iain

I have only discovered the forum this week and been a member for a few hours, but I have scanned through the 10 years or so that it has been active. The technical excellence  and knowledge on display is truly impressive and I doubt I have anything to contribute. Having said that, I have helped with the extension of the Copenhagen Fields model railway into part of the King's Cross goods depot, and my name now appears on the model with a 'business partner' as one of the traders in potatoes! 

But I do hope to draw on the expertise of the forum.  I am very engaged with Camden's railway heritage, and particularly Camden Goods Yard,  through Camden Railway Heritage Trust, which I founded in January 2007. As well as preserving and restoring this heritage, we are trying to create greater awareness of its significance and open it up to the public.

I believe your model of the passenger locomotive shed is to be viewed from the front. Camden Council has plans to improve Dumpton Place and this creates an opportunity to reveal the heritage. The wall has very recently had the render removed (the photo predates this).   The removal of the render has not revealed the infill to the former opening, but perhaps an expert builder/bricklayer would have the forensic skills to examine the wall and report on what is original and what has been replaced (for example, the coping stones are not all from the same date). Then we can make a feature in the wall of the original entrance to the locomotive shed. There are granite steps at the end of Dumpton Place that we believe led to the doorway, implying that the doorway was raised a little above street level. We would like to see the steps restored to some resemblance of originality, as these may be the last vestiges of the MPD.

I would be very interested in any photographs of the doorway. I assume you are intending to model the footbridge and will extend this to the opening in the wall at the end of Dumpton Place.

There are many other projects involving the goods yard that I would like to share with the forum, if interested, not least the creation of a model of the winding engines and rope haulage between Camden and Euston.

 

Peter

 

On 26/06/2021 at 12:12, 92220 said:

Thank you Peter.

I only have one view of the gate in Dumpton Place, from this G. Freeman Allen book:

 

 

I have taken a snap of it here:

 

 

not sure whether I am allowed to, and will remove it if I ought to.

 

Iain

A little research trip: now that my son lives a few minutes from Camden this sort of trip becomes a lot more straightforward.
 

I snapped a good number of useful photos, principally of architectural details etc.  I won’t flood the thread with all of them, but a couple bear posting I think.

 

This one is of the Dumpton Place wall after the render has been removed, referred to by Peter above.

 

 

I think it possibly shows that the doorway was once where the Pilates ad is hanging now.  I’m not certain but this part of the wall looks as if it was perhaps completely rebuilt rather than patched up or filled in.  Anyway, I will try to copy the photo in the post above when I finally get round to it.

 

More currently, there was a discussion about wall mounted derricks a few posts ago and I have searched extensively and in vain for information.  Then what do I find on the E wall of the Roundhouse?

 

 

 

I am leaning towards assuming that those on the Goods Shed wall were at least similar, and it gives me a plausible way to construct them.  
 

Any views welcome.

 

A somewhat more momentous update to follow soon.

 

Iain

 

[92220]

With the construction of two long crossovers and the scissors off the down fast, we now have the down lines completed:

 

 

 

Excuse the mess.  You know how these things are.

 

I simplified the track plan at the south end by removing the formation which started with a trailing left hand turnout off the up slow, single slip on the down slow and then joining the up fast.  I couldn’t see (a) what movement it served and more importantly (b) how I was ever going to build a single slip to work reliably.  I had to get the mainlines to function impeccably (without having Norman Solomon to build them) or I could never have Tony to visit.  
 

Part of the reason for going to all this trouble was the effect of long shallow crossing turnouts - C10 to D12 - on a gentle curve.  You can hopefully see the change in track pairing from 1-2-1 at the north end to 2-2 at the south.  The stock runs through these smoothly and once wired, I hope testing will be as successful on the down as it was on the up.  
 

In the yard area I am almost certain to try to use some of the new British Finetrax kits as there are few B7s there.  

 

I ran out of slide chairs so I have a few to add as can be seen, but overall I’m pleased with how this turned out - especially the scissors which took some time, just doing it bit by bit and trying to make sure I got it right.  
 

Yes my tie bar arrangement is less than perfect, but with such long switch blades there is minimal stress.  I tried the C&L ones and almost lost my mind.
 

Iain

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by 92220
don’t know my up from my down……

[92220]

Overall view from the south end

 

 

Shows the change in pairing better I think.

 

Iain

Edited February 29 by 92220
Re-add photo

[lezz01]

Lovely trackwork Iain. The scissors is excellent.

Regards Lez.   

[92220]

Thank you Lez, very kind.  

I should have added for anyone who didn’t know and wants to, that this is all OO-SF transitioning to 16.5mm on the final 3 timbers to join the C&L plain track at the end of each formation.  With thanks to Martin Wynne for explaining so clearly why OO-SF works so well, and for the brilliance of Templot to plan it out.  

I’m dedicating at least this section of the layout to my friend Gordon Stolliday, who set me on my way with both Templot and trackwork construction, and to whom a huge gathering said an emotional farewell on Wednesday.  Rest in peace my friend.  

 

Iain

[Michael Edge]

16.2mm gauge looks so much better through the crossings - as well as working much better.

[1BCamden]

On 04/08/2021 at 05:09, 92220 said:

 

A little research trip: now that my son lives a few minutes from Camden this sort of trip becomes a lot more straightforward.
 

I snapped a good number of useful photos, principally of architectural details etc.  I won’t flood the thread with all of them, but a couple bear posting I think.

 

This one is of the Dumpton Place wall after the render has been removed, referred to by Peter above.

 

 

I think it possibly shows that the doorway was once where the Pilates ad is hanging now.  I’m not certain but this part of the wall looks as if it was perhaps completely rebuilt rather than patched up or filled in.  Anyway, I will try to copy the photo in the post above when I finally get round to it.

 

More currently, there was a discussion about wall mounted derricks a few posts ago and I have searched extensively and in vain for information.  Then what do I find on the E wall of the Roundhouse?

 

 

 

I am leaning towards assuming that those on the Goods Shed wall were at least similar, and it gives me a plausible way to construct them.  
 

Any views welcome.

 

A somewhat more momentous update to follow soon.

 

Iain

 

 

Wow, fantastic, another puzzle resolved, well done Iain.

[LNER4479]

WOW!

 

On so many levels, just 'WOW'!

 

Sorry - words fail me to say anything else remotely sensible or erudite. What a layout this is going to be ...

[92220]

Down slow is wired and tested.  I will complete the same with the down fast and then a celebratory video will be released!  I might need to get a few bits of stock back from Shap temporarily to make up a few more trains  (delighted as ever to continue and repeat the loan into the future, Graham).

 

Getting somewhere close with the goods yard approaches too:

 

This section (including the bit of the North London line through Primrose Hill station) is laid on some very thin cork sheet.  It will be painted in situ, then lifted, pva applied, the track relaid using the paint shadow as a guide, and ash ballast applied.  Then the excess ash ballast is vacuumed off. It is leftover thin sleeper C&L from the old layout, so it works well to ballast it that way.  I don’t need to be quite so paranoid about the running as I am on the rest of it, mainlines in particular.  There, making sure it runs smoothly and reliably before all the scenic work is crucial.  The goods yard will be largely a static scenic backdrop, with just a small amount of possible movement at really slow speed of goods stock.  The trackwork is simple enough with some B8s on a very shallow curve.  
The track immediately outside the goods shed is inlaid with setts.  I have to sort some wagon turntables (no they won’t be working ones!) and probably I should try to pick Jason T’s brains to see whether I can copy what he did with The Mill.  
 

Iain

[LNER4479]

26 minutes ago, 92220 said:

I might need to get a few bits of stock back from Shap temporarily to make up a few more trains  (delighted as ever to continue and repeat the loan into the future, Graham).

 

 

No worries whatsoever Iain. Nothing in the show diary for Shap until Easter 2022 (York), so happy to arrange a rendez-vous in the meantime. I've acquired a few more maroon MkIs over the last 18 months anyway so the demand on stock might be less in the future.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Iain

 

Lovely work!

 

Just a note of caution that you might not have noticed...

 

Watch you don't snag clothing on the bits of track that run off the boards. If that happens, it could ruin a lot of work.

 

Brian

[92220]

10 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Iain

 

Lovely work!

 

Just a note of caution that you might not have noticed...

 

Watch you don't snag clothing on the bits of track that run off the boards. If that happens, it could ruin a lot of work.

 

Brian

 

Thanks Brian.  No problem, none of those tracks are fixed yet, and they will be cut 6-7 mm short of the edge on the appropriate angle, so that the backscene board will fit neatly. 
 

Iain

[92220]

I’ve managed a fair bit of progress on the goods yard approaches, with all of the turnouts and plain track lightly and temporarily pinned.  Once I have the 3rd and 4th rail supplies, I can lay the line through Primrose Hill Station (I say line but I mean lines plural I think as I can have a representation of both up and down lines, either side of a new platform to be constructed, along with an extended station building and better ancillary buildings alongside the up fast).  
 

Then I will spray the lot, let it dry, lift it all, then PVA, relay the track, add fine ash ballast with a few stones, weigh it down and vacuum up the excess.  I will sort some photos soon.

 

I’ve spent more time on the inlaid track immediately outside the goods shed.  Again, I need to sort a decent photo or two and will.  But this post is about wagon turntables.  And nobody is allowed to laugh. Well, only a bit. 

 

I thought about sourcing some (I know Pete Harvey does some beautiful etches).  Then I worked out I would never make them rotate - I doubt I will live to be 250.  So build static ones.  Why not?

 

fail no. 1

 

 

 

and 2 if I’m honest.

 

why make life so hard with plastic and superglue when I could solder some?

 

After a false start I got to this:

 

Scored lines at 90 deg as guides to solder rail parallel

 

 

 

Scrap code 75 flatbottom rail

 

 

Then slitting disc to make the gaps. 

 

 

Needs electrically isolating but it’s ok for something that will be ornamental and scenic at best, and mainly covered with planking.  
 

7 off, please.

 

Iain