RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 8, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, maico said: Lots of nice details in the picture That’s the one. Thanks. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 29 minutes ago, maico said: Lots of nice details in the picture Turn of the century or earlier. I am a little unsure about the road surface but tarred hard wood blocks are perhaps most likely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted October 8, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2020 Compacted horse droppings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 8, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2020 We have interpreted the road surface as granite setts, for the 1920s but it could well have been blocks. One thing’s for sure, we’re not changing it now! We have plenty of cow sh1t in this area. Tim 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 hours ago, john new said: Compacted horse droppings? ...and cow. The view from the Caladonian Market clocktower has changed a bit over the years 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 3 hours ago, CF MRC said: We have interpreted the road surface as granite setts, for the 1920s but it could well have been blocks. One thing’s for sure, we’re not changing it now! We have plenty of cow sh1t in this area. Having in the past spent a lot of time looking at road surfaces in old postcards and datable photographs in order to establish some sort of chronology, I discovered that granite setts, where they existed, can usually be distinguished over at least part of the road surface. Furthermore the road surface between and 18" either side of tram lines has to be some sort of hard surface, ie setts, hard wood blocks or (very rarely) concrete, this was a legal requirement that dated from horse tram days (when it was fair enough) but continued with electric traction. In this picture there is no clear delineation of the 18" strip so the whole road surface is of the same material, either granite setts (which I would expect to be able to distinguish at least in part) or hard wood blocks. The latter were particularly commonplace on busy routes in the LCC area because they were almost as hard wearing as granite setts but significantly quieter hence my suggestion that that was what we see here. Ironically, hard wood blocks are much easier to model than granite setts as, once they were tarred over (as they were) it was almost impossible to distinguish individual blocks and wear was pretty even. It was by no means unknown for busy junctions (or places where horse drawn vehicles would stand for some time, such as taxicab ranks) to have granite setts while the surrounding linear roads all had wood blocks; very narrow streets also often had granite setts. I certainly wouldn't think of suggesting a change to CF now but it might be worth noting for the future in case any of the model road surfaces should get damaged and need replacement. Incidentally, because the LCC had to wait for a lease to be given up, many of the tramways in north London, including those on Caledonian Road, were converted to electric traction quite late - say 1907/8 - so the postcard could date well into the Edwardian era. However I still think that there is something about it that suggests the turn of the century with Victoria still on the throne. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpgibbons Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 London Fields is briefly captioned in this atmospheric 1920's video of the Regent's Canal here 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 10, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2020 Thanks, the same video was highlighted on page 23, but it is always worth watching for inspiration as it is right through our area and very much our era. London Fields was further east in Hackney. More people and vehicles needed on the more recently completed parts of the layout... Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Here's an article about London streets paved with wood and including a map showing the extent of those streets: https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2015/01/10/the-time-when-londons-streets-were-paved-with-wood/ I visited a plant, as a museum, where the wood was prepared in Western Australia (now unfortunately burnt down in fires a few years ago) for shipping to the UK. Jarrah is very popular and common in WA and is used in homes for floorboards and roofing as well as other items. It's a rather beautiful wood and I have a few trinkets made from it. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 10, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2020 Thanks for that fascinating link Grahame, that has saved us a lot of roadworks: the Cally was cobbled. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 10, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) The scenic end of the YR tube station is now sketched in. In fact, when the original tube station was built a number of terraced houses were demolished, which accounts for its strange plan form. The northern wall of the remaining houses was rendered and the fireplace openings maintained, an effect also mimicked on the south end of the station; the GNP&BR always kept its options opened for further development on its railway sites. I thought that it might be feasible to represent the rendered house on the very end of the plot. Whilst it was obviously feasible to make the house, it ended up looking like a Norman castle keep. I have therefore shortened it, but showing a couple of fireplaces. Part of the reason for keeping the wall slightly higher is that there will be an advertising hoarding on the road side pavement and so the wall will offer some protection. There is an ideal glory hole here for old bedsteads and other junk, chucked over the boundary onto the waste ground (nowadays it would be supermarket trolleys). The use of separate sections held together with strong magnets has been an absolute boon for easing construction. I suspect that I will use dabs of glue to hold these sections in place when construction is complete, but the glue will be easily accessed for dismantling, should the need arise. I should be getting some 35mm diameter copper tube soon for the stair shaft, then some heavier gauge brass tube for the lift shafts. Richard W has made the final draft of the visible track plan - the originals are superimposed on the Templot plan. One could say it’s a “two sidings, two buffers stops and long grass layout”, but there aren’t any buffer stops... Tim Edited October 10, 2020 by CF MRC 11 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 10, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) That clever Mr Wilson has been playing with some 3D modelling of YR station in relation to the main layout. The three red tubes are not Mid-West grain silos, but the station lift and stair shafts. The sector plate fiddle yard would only be used when YR was exhibited alone. The Up platform can be seen as well as the crossover tunnels. These tunnels are correctly modelled and the tracks and bore linings will be visible using cutaways. Bit different to our original cardboard CF model from 1983! I think it will be quite popular, especially with cut away shafts and station building. Tim Edited October 11, 2020 by CF MRC Improved images with more detail. 7 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-A-T Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 A couple of questions if I may. When you started did you envision this time scale? I know a layout is never finished and how long is a piece of string etc but do you have an idea of when it might be “finished”? (Finished possibly meaning when you can no longer make a material difference to the layout beyond gilding the lily). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 10, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) I don’t think we ever thought it would take this long, but the layout has developed over the decades and has so many areas of interest to keep our interest. The development of YR tube has turned in to something that was quite unexpected when I started on the abbreviated version of the building back in June. We still have a huge amount to do on the main layout, of course: signals, signal boxes, more operational capabilities on the goods lines, scenery at the south end, more detail in the middle distance buildings and streets at Belle Isle, the list goes on. Tim Edited October 10, 2020 by CF MRC 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBS Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 08/10/2020 at 10:31, CF MRC said: That’s the one. Thanks. Tim That photo shows what I see as three rows of dished granite setts parallel to the right hand kerb - a very common construction for a gutter still used today. Ergo, the rest of the carriageway is probably not setts. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 10, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2020 But Grahame’s map shows that the Cally was surfaced with setts, John. I recall other pictures that we used to have showing granite setts outside some shops further down the Cally with a few setts parallel to the pavement and the main ones laid across the road. Of course, it could have changed. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 13 hours ago, CF MRC said: But Grahame’s map shows that the Cally was surfaced with setts, John. I recall other pictures that we used to have showing granite setts outside some shops further down the Cally with a few setts parallel to the pavement and the main ones laid across the road. Of course, it could have changed. Tim, The photo shows the Cally in horse-tram days. When the tramway was converted to electric traction, the track would have been completely relaid (incorporating the conduit) and the immediate surrounds of the double track would have been granite setts as was LCC Tramways standard practice. Given that that would have made quite a mess of the existing wooden block road surface (one of its downsides was that it was difficult to lift a small portion cleanly, the other major downside being that the road surface tended to float if the road became flooded for any length of time), the LCC may well have chosen to resurface the whole road with setts - hence what Grahame's map shows. CF is, of course, set in a period subsequent to the electrification of the tramway (I gave up trying to work out the exact date that electric services commenced but it was somewhere between 1907 and 1909). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted October 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2020 On 01/09/2020 at 14:13, CF MRC said: Our tram on the Cally does a sterling job, David, with a service intensity that transport managers could only dream of. Buses are there also, of course, but unlikely to move. It’s a well known fact that when people make comments about what CF needs, they generally get given the job: are you up for a General NS bus? Tim It has been shown possible to produce a driveable 2mm Bus I would love to see an old london bus up and down the road with the conductor by the open back. Happy memories. Mind you my father said when I was teething a ride on the tram was the only thing to quieten me down. I saw a rather rude comment in MRJ now I don't know if others would agree but my memories of London in the 50s was although it was dirtier from all the coal fires there was far less litter than today. I blame the modern prevelence of fast food debris. CF certainly recalls the London of my childhood. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 14, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2020 I did drop a hint to Nigel, Don, but older buses are a bit smaller. Would look good going along York Way tho’. With the modifications to the layout front to accommodate YR station we would have a perfect bus turning triangle (next to Clifford’s Grocery store), but the north end would be very tricky, especially as the scale starts to reduce... Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Like @DonwI was surprised and disappointed to see that letter in MRJ. Not only did I find it rude and disparaging, but, frankly, insulting, and not within the ethos of the magazine. Having watched the project from the time when it was a cardboard model of the proposed model, I have nothing but repect and admiration for the standard of modelling and fortitude of those involved. Jim 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) Having read the letter and gone back and re-read what Tim actually wrote to raise such ire, I suspect Paul has published it to demonstrate the sort of completely-missing-the-point nonsense he receives from time to time. People build boring layouts, generic layouts based on other layouts and ignore prototype practice, I don't see why that shouldn't be cited when explaining why the MRC decided to build something as gloriously mad as CF. I wonder if he thinks Pendon looks too twee and the Madder Valley a bit too scruffy as well ? Edited October 14, 2020 by Wheatley 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 14, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 14, 2020 There is nothing like a bit of colour from some period posters (thanks to Kirtley Models) to bring a scene to life. The ‘dead’ ground at the south end of YR had a tall fence and advertisements. These will only be visible to the south end operator when on exhibition, but there could be some good camera views in this area, when the piazza is paved and populated (not sure Belle Isle would have had a piazza). Before anyone criticises the wonky frame to the posters: that is copying the original. Any ideas why the boxes were dumped there? Will lay some grass soon, but it won’t be wide rolling hills. Tim 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, CF MRC said: .........Any ideas why the boxes were dumped there? Early fly-tipping? Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Wheatley said: Having read the letter and gone back and re-read what Tim actually wrote to raise such ire, I suspect Paul has published it to demonstrate the sort of completely-missing-the-point nonsense he receives from time to time. People build boring layouts, generic layouts based on other layouts and ignore prototype practice, I don't see why that shouldn't be cited when explaining why the MRC decided to build something as gloriously mad as CF. I wonder if he thinks Pendon looks too twee and the Madder Valley a bit too scruffy as well ? I am not one for writing to newspaper or magazine editors, but a letter along the lines of my earlier post is lying here to be posted to the Editor of MRJ tomorrow. Jim 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 09:01, grahame said: Here's an article about London streets paved with wood and including a map showing the extent of those streets: https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2015/01/10/the-time-when-londons-streets-were-paved-with-wood/ I visited a plant, as a museum, where the wood was prepared in Western Australia (now unfortunately burnt down in fires a few years ago) for shipping to the UK. Jarrah is very popular and common in WA and is used in homes for floorboards and roofing as well as other items. It's a rather beautiful wood and I have a few trinkets made from it. And I was always told the streets of London were paved with gold. oh well... 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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