6 Wheel Coaches

[Londontram]

Hi Chris,

I would avoid the Hornby six wheeled units, they are extremely crude to say the least.

I know that MARC Models does a conversion for these, but I'm not sure if the underframe is

available seperately. [He also uses the same unit to improve the Stove R] It has a quite clever

method for setting up different wheelbases, with a floating centre axle for troublefree running

on tighter radii curves.

Jeff

Yes it is a bit crude but no worse than most other RTR wagons and its a lovely free running chassis and if you take one of the old Triang clerestory brake third coaches and cut at the last compartment before the brake section and make a new end from plasticard its now the exact length to fit the Hornby 6 wheel chassis. You can make a step board from either plasticard or brass strip mounted on brass rod to the underside of the body this covers the under-frame up quite a bit so you don.t notice the lack of detail as much. I found a 6 wheel van at a toy fair for £1 the coach was £5 of ebay including p&p with all the other bits and bobs you could build it for under a tenner. With two clerestory coaches you could get three 6 wheel coaches because once you've used the 3rd class sections you could join up the two left over brake sections once trimmed to make up a full brake. at the end of the day its horses for corses the recent rush to buy the Hattchi BR mk1 showed that a lot of people are happy to run stock with less than perfect under-frame detail, once its running past you few people will spot the under-frame there going to be more impressed with the fact your running a rake of 6 wheel coaches

Edited October 26, 2013 by Londontram

[ChrisN]

Yes it is a bit crude but no worse than most other RTR wagons and its a lovely free running chassis and if you take one of the old Triang clerestory brake third coaches and cut at the last compartment and make a new end from plasticard its now the exact length to fit the Hornby 6 wheel chassis. You can make a step board from either plasticard or brass strip mounted on brass rod to the underside of the body this covers the under-frame up quite a bit so you don.t notice the lack of detail as much. I found a 6 wheel van at a toy fair for £1 the coach was £5 of ebay including p&p with all the other bits and bobs you could build it for under a tenner. With two clerestory coaches you could get three 6 wheel coaches because once you've used the 3rd class sections you could join up the two left over brake sections once trimmed to make up a full brake. at the end of the day its horses for corses the recent rush to buy the Hattchi BR mk1 showed that a lot of people are happy to run stock with less than perfect under-frame detail, once its running past you few people will spot the under-frame there going to be more impressed with the fact your running a rake of 6 wheel coaches

 

Londontram,

Thank you, it maks me want to go and do it.  I am supposed to be building a Cambrian pre-grouping layout but I am also building some GWR shire scenes coaches as practise for working in brass.  I also have lots of other projects on the go but this one, although I have not done coach conversions before, is well within my comfort zone so may well give it a go.

 

Now, I must prise myself away from the computer and go and do something before I spend the next few hours on eBay and spend my money before I have time to think about this rationally.

[mike morley]

Chris

 

What are the instructions with the Shirescenes carriage like?

I bought a Shirescenes farmers cart kit a few months ago and the instructions that came with it are the most unbelievably appalling things I've ever had the misfortune to behold.  I have since learned from others that they are typical of their carts and wagons range, which makes me rather wary of tackling any of their carriages.

[9403]

I built the Chivers 6 wheel LMS Fish Van underframe. I couldn't put swivels on the outer axles because of the brake reinforcing bar. I got away with simply allowing the center axle to float from side to side. Outer axles are sprung. Check this link for more:

 

http://britishmodelrailwayclubofmontreal.blogspot.com/2011/11/chivers-lms-6-wheel-fish-van.html

 

The finished van looks a bit ahoo and I discovered later that paint had clogged the spring mechanism. After cleaning the vans sits well and runs very nicely indeed.

 

John

Nice one but no XP markings post 1959. mine is rigid but a bit more slop in centre axles

[ChrisN]

Chris

 

What are the instructions with the Shirescenes carriage like?

I bought a Shirescenes farmers cart kit a few months ago and the instructions that came with it are the most unbelievably appalling things I've ever had the misfortune to behold.  I have since learned from others that they are typical of their carts and wagons range, which makes me rather wary of tackling any of their carriages.

 

Mike,

His instructions are not bad, he sends you a booklet.  There are some bits that are ambiguous but nothing that is not easily overcome.  My biggest difficulty was that I had bought the Ratio 613 off eBay and they had had it open and put a 610 chassis in it which I did not find out until after I cut it up and offered up the sole bars.  I am building a Holden 4 Wheeler and there was some confusion about which end the braking was on but this I think is more to do with the fact that real life is more confusing than history says it should be, basically the books say the brakes are at one end but once the four wheelers left the comfort of the underground tunnels they were modified indicriminately.

 

Robin Harding who runs it now bought the company a two or three years back and I do not think was involved in the early vans or the instructions but has written the new ones.  It is helpful though to find a picture of the original and they are not an Airfix kit set of instructions.

 

Try one that does not need the chassis modifying.  Also, I am not sure what instructions he sends with his new brake coach as I have a pre production version to test, which I am very embarrassed to say I still have not started, mainly because I found brass more difficult than I had expected not having ever modelled with it before, and due to family and life circumstances.  I'll start soon, honest.

[Londontram]

Here's a few photo's of a 6 wheel coach I'm building using the old Triang clerestory coach cut down mounted on the Hornby 6 wheel wagon under-frame. Its still a work in progress job and is way off being done but I hope it gives you an idea of how it's done. The first photo shows it sat on the frame and you can see its a good fit on the Hornby chassis, in this one rather than make a new end I cut and shut using the end of the brake section. It was cut with a razor saw and as well as chopping the body I took the chassis off so it would mount flush onto the van under-frame. Photo 2 shows the new steps and handrails on the end of the coach, you might notice that its now got a plain curved roof as the coach I want it to look like was not a clerestory. The third photo shows how I did this by cutting a section out the roof, cutting off the clerestory section then covering with 5 thou plasticard inside and out to give the two halves of the original frame strength - doing it like this helped to keep the roof shape and kept the end fixing lugs and lip along the locating sides. In these photo's you can see an attempt at the step board in plasticard, I'm not happy with its lack of strength so i'll remake them with brass strip and solder them to brass rods fixed to the under-frame. The last photo shows the under-frame with the 6 wheels which I think looks quite neat. As well as painting it will need air vents, rain strips etc. to finish but I'm pleased how it looks so far. PS. in this last photo you can see the bit that was removed to shorten the body down to about a scale 30 ft.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Londontram

[brossard]

Nice one but no XP markings post 1959. mine is rigid but a bit more slop in centre axles

 

I built the underframe for a friend.  He did the rest so taking no responsibilty.  I did buy a kit for myself tobe LMS livery.

 

John

[ChrisN]

Londontram,

Thank you again.  I shall be in Vol1 of GWR coaches to see what I can build.  I will also see if I can make any Cambrian ones.  I really need to finish something though, although most of my coaches are waiting for people to sit in them, and I am spending my time painting standing people!

[billbedford]

There is also this method which seems to me to be a lot simpler than most of the other methods.

[Alan Higgi]

This is a good method. Built by Tony Geary (Dibatag) and now owned by RonnieS. I borrowed it about a year ago to copy for my Stove R but  have not got round to it yet......................Sorry Ronnie! Any way this 

 

Wagon Compensation Unit RTR EM/P4 (4 wagons) - Dart Castings

www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2291.php‎

 

 

and the pic  says it all

Edited October 27, 2013 by Alan Higgi

[Trebor]

Wheels need a clean !

[brossard]

I've been doing battle with a Stove R:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87302-building-an-lms-stove-r-that-works/

 

I used the sliding axle method advocated by Bill and it seems to work great.  I left the outer axles to swivel, but only very slightly as there's not a lot of room.  I've since received some 2mm tube and 1mm rod from Eileen's.

 

I did try a Brassmaster's cleminson chassis which does work, but I came a cropper because my W-irons fouled the solebars.  My previous effort was with a Slater's cleminson chassis:

 

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79126-lms-6-wheel-insulated-milk-van/

 

My take away is to fix the W-irons to the solebar and use inside bearings.

 

John

[billbedford]

I used the sliding axle method advocated by Bill and it seems to work great.  I left the outer axles to swivel, but only very slightly as there's not a lot of room.  I've since received some 2mm tube and 1mm rod from Eileen's.

 

 

C&L sell packs of 1mm pin point axles - code E4CW 503A

[PaulR]

The Slater's kits are now with Coopercraft and some parts are available separately.

Forget about Coopercraft. There is a whole correspondence on them elsewhere on rmweb

[ChrisN]

Forget about Coopercraft. There is a whole correspondence on them elsewhere on rmweb

 

Paul,

Have you got any more information?

[Siberian Snooper]

Paul,

Have you got any more information?

 

 

See this link, please note that the thread is locked.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66297-news-from-cooper-craftblacksmithslaterskirk-lnermailcoach-kits/

 

Only do business at a show where you can see and touch what you're after.

[ChrisN]

See this link, please note that the thread is locked.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66297-news-from-cooper-craftblacksmithslaterskirk-lnermailcoach-kits/

 

Only do business at a show where you can see and touch what you're after.

 

Thank you, that is most helpful and very disappointing.

[PaulR]

Paul,

Have you got any more information?

I echo Siberian Snooper's advice. Coopercraft have not sent goods or refunds from their site for years. I have had to invoke the dispute system of my credit card to get a refund. Occasionally, he pops up at shows, so buy there

[Simon Moore]

Slaters do a oo kit for a midland 6 wheeler with plastic body & etched chassis. It's now sold under the coopercraft banner. London road models do a range of L & Y 6 wheelers which are excellent kits they also do Lnwr kits.

 

You've mentioned about glueing brass in the original post, I would not recommend glueing etched brass sides it's not strong enough. Get a sheet of brass from your local models shop & learn to solder. The basics are not hard & i'm sure that there are plenty of demo videos on YouTube plus lots of info on here.

We all start somewhere kit building & once you learn the basics of soldering it opens a big can of worms not to mention a sense of achievement when you make a lovely model.

[sharris]

Slaters do a oo kit for a midland 6 wheeler with plastic body & etched chassis. It's now sold under the coopercraft banner

 

I have just been catching up with the Cooper Craft thread courtesy of Siberian Snooper. How disappointing (I thought C&L had Slaters, but they must have sold them on again!). I picked up a few Midland 6-wheeler bits and pieces from the Cooper Craft stand at Expo EM last year (they're still in their packets waiting to be built - need to build my own chassis for them) and didn't know the CC situation was so fragile - it looks like picking up what you can at shows is the best plan. It will be a shame when the Slaters kits run out - I like those.  I might be following Bill Bedford's ruse with the centre axle now I know about that.

[Siberian Snooper]

I have just been catching up with the Cooper Craft thread courtesy of Siberian Snooper. How disappointing (I thought C&L had Slaters, but they must have sold them on again!). I picked up a few Midland 6-wheeler bits and pieces from the Cooper Craft stand at Expo EM last year (they're still in their packets waiting to be built - need to build my own chassis for them) and didn't know the CC situation was so fragile - it looks like picking up what you can at shows is the best plan. It will be a shame when the Slaters kits run out - I like those.  I might be following Bill Bedford's ruse with the centre axle now I know about that.

Brassmasters do a 6 wheel chassis kits, 2 types, depending on your prototype depends which type you need. I'm not able to post a link at the moment, but will do later.

[t-b-g]

Brassmasters do a 6 wheel chassis kits, 2 types, depending on your prototype depends which type you need. I'm not able to post a link at the moment, but will do later.

 

I have used several of the kits from Brassmasters for 6 wheelers and found them to be very nice indeed. They give you a choice of inside or pin point bearings and a very adaptable wheelbase. I have run my carriages round 2' 10" radius curves in EM with no problems at all and they just glide along.

 

The only difficult part is that the pivoting trucks take up a lot of the floor area, so if you want to fit vacuum brake cylinders or gas tanks, you have to use your initiative. I fixed mine to the Brassmasters parts and that worked fine.

 

No connection other than as a highly satisfied customer!

 

Tony G

[uax6]

Don't forget that Comet do a 6 wheel axleguard kit. I'm making one up for one of my 6 wheelers at the minute. Its very good. Three axleguards are provided on the fret (for just over 3 quid). They make up into three rocking units (you make one fixed by packing out the rock!), and then the far axle can rock. The middle axle can rock and it comes with an etch that you solder to the middle of the w-iron, that converts that axle to an inside bearing one (after you have removed the ends of the axles outside the wheels).

There is even a fret of brake shoes that you can add to the w-irons.

 

I've not got it running yet, but so far I would give it a 10 out of 10 for cost and design. Looks like it is the way forward!

 

Andy G

[ChrisN]

I echo Siberian Snooper's advice. Coopercraft have not sent goods or refunds from their site for years. I have had to invoke the dispute system of my credit card to get a refund. Occasionally, he pops up at shows, so buy there

 

Thanks.  I did not know this.  My son ordered something for me at Christmas but will try and get it back through World Pay.

[ChrisN]

Slaters do a oo kit for a midland 6 wheeler with plastic body & etched chassis. It's now sold under the coopercraft banner. London road models do a range of L & Y 6 wheelers which are excellent kits they also do Lnwr kits.

 

You've mentioned about glueing brass in the original post, I would not recommend glueing etched brass sides it's not strong enough. Get a sheet of brass from your local models shop & learn to solder. The basics are not hard & i'm sure that there are plenty of demo videos on YouTube plus lots of info on here.

We all start somewhere kit building & once you learn the basics of soldering it opens a big can of worms not to mention a sense of achievement when you make a lovely model.

 

Simon,

Thank you.  On my layout thread there is a discussion about soldering.  Last Expo EM South I obtained some scrap brass to practise soldering.  I have not had time yet to do this but it is on my 'to do' list.