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Jim104

Hornby Push Pull Set R4534

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Hi All, R4534 is showing on Hattons site as

Hornby Model Railways R4534 BR Maunsell Pull Push Pack. 2 coaches with modification for use with an M7 loco. Due 2nd Qtr..........

 

Anyone know what the 'modification' is so it can be used with an M7 ??

 

thanks Jim

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These vehicles were part of a 20-set fleet of 2-car units created for use in pull-push mode in 1959, replacing heritage vehicles from many years before. Corridor connectors were removed from each end, but not between the pairs of coaches, and windows provided in the leading end. Full driving controls provided such that the set could be driven with the loco propelling, the fireman alone being on the loco footplate. Other details included loos being sealed.

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Other details included loos being sealed.

 

Ahh! The old "cling film across the pan" trick.

 

Ed

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I imagine Jim104 was wondering if there was a modification on the model which make it necessary to use an M7 (which there isn't). The description is a bit ambiguous & probably should read something like "a model of the 2 coach push pull sets which were modified to run with an M7 loco...."

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Thanks for info, yes I was wondering if the model had been changed in any way rather than the history, albeit interesting, have to put it down to Liverpool 'English'

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Of course, the set will only look sensible if run with a pull-push fitted M7, of which Hornby make/have made several - but not all are so equipped.

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Of course, the set will only look sensible if run with a pull-push fitted M7, of which Hornby make/have made several - but not all are so equipped.

 

They would also look good with an H Class 0-4-4T, as used on the Westerham branch, but of course Hornby doesn't make one so didn't refer to them, just the M7.

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They would also look good with an H Class 0-4-4T, as used on the Westerham branch, but of course Hornby doesn't make one so didn't refer to them.

 

I'm hoping they do.

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There's extensive archive of these sets working with H and M7 tanks here -

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVgUCDTKRLs&list=UUahuJlde02RxvwO82gbrXtw&index=87&feature=plpp_video .

 

I also believe these sets were also later used with BR Standard 4MT tanks although not in push-pull mode, presumably after withdrawals of M7 and H tanks.

Edited by RFS
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They would also look good with an H Class 0-4-4T, as used on the Westerham branch, but of course Hornby doesn't make one so didn't refer to them, just the M7.

True - but my point was that not just any old M7 will do - it needs the pull-push kit in place to be able to propel convincingly. Hauling is open to any loco, of course. I have a clear recollection of a damp day at Tonbridge, probably early 1961, with an H sitting in the up loop, pump panting away, which this 12-year-old found rather tedious after a while.

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The Maunsell Push-Pull sets were equipped for air operation of the controls hence the need for a Westinghouse Pump on the loco. The Ivatt and Standard 2-6-2 tanks fitted for Push-Pull used a vacuum system which was standard on the LMS.

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Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith's book "Branch line to Hayling" (Middleton Press, 1984) book shows two loose BCKs working on the Hayling Island Branch in the last months prior to its closure in Nov. 1963:

photo no. 26 shows BCK 6699 (ex-set 619) coupled to a Mk1 64' length 10-compt second hauled by Terrier 32650;

photo no. 52 showing BCK 6697 (ex-set 618) with another long Mk1 10-compt second hauled by 32646.

 

By then, the Terriers weren't fitted for push-pull operation and both were used as normal loco-hauled stock. Both carriages still had their old set numbers painted on, and amazingly, both survive in preservation owned by the Swanage Railway:

 

6697 http://www.cs.vintag...nfo.asp?Ref=530

6699 http://www.cs.vintag...nfo.asp?Ref=531

 

The railway has plans to restore a set of this type, as SO 1323 (ex-set 611) also survives http://www.cs.vintag...nfo.asp?Ref=397

 

Its plans are outlined in its document http://www.swanagera...d%20FEB2011.pdf

 

Maybe the railway could commission a limited edition version of 1323 and 6699 to raise funds??

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True - but my point was that not just any old M7 will do - it needs the pull-push kit in place to be able to propel convincingly. Hauling is open to any loco, of course. I have a clear recollection of a damp day at Tonbridge, probably early 1961, with an H sitting in the up loop, pump panting away, which this 12-year-old found rather tedious after a while.

 

I sat in the driver's end (with the M7 leading) on the last day of service on the Brockenhurst to Bournemouth West (via Ringwood) line in 1964. Where does time go... :umbrage:

 

Bill

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Latest notification from Liverpool's 'Big H',... Train Pack R4534, ...Picked 'n packed....So, they're here, and on their way

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Latest notification from Liverpool's 'Big H',... Train Pack R4534, ...Picked 'n packed....So, they're here, and on their way

 

Rails are showing the Pull Push pack with M7 in stock but not R4534. I have the latter on order with Hattons but haven't been notified.

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Rails are showing the Pull Push pack with M7 in stock but not R4534. I have the latter on order with Hattons but haven't been notified.

 

OOooops...Sorreee :blush: :fool: .... R4534.....R3087 It Is..

Memo to self.....Calm down......Increase screen Zoom, or get down to Specsavers, fast.

Edited by Ceptic

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Hattons not expecting R4534 (coach pack) until end of July.

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Hattons not expecting R4534 (coach pack) until end of July.

 

I was advised it was due next week!!

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Drool, but can't justify. We know they are doing the Open Third in original form. Any chance the Flush-sided BCK will also have been tooled so that it can be back dated???

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I was advised it was due next week!!

I wouldn't take Hattons website too literally atm--they are still having problems. Go to my new posting on R 3096 'William Shakespeare', They e-mailed me at midday stating 'production cancelled'

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Is there any plan to release this set in a 'Southern' guise?

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Is there any plan to release this set in a 'Southern' guise?

 

There shouldn't be! As already pointed out by Dudders, they were only built (converted) in 1959.

 

If you want older (not LSW which is going to be covered by Dapol/Kernow), you would probably need kits from Dave Hammersley (Roxey).

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Guest Belgian

No chance. They have a very limited time-span. The sets were only converted in 1959-60 so are appropriate from then until 1964-ish, being used as normal loco-hauled stock for the last 18 months or so, once all the Hs and M7s were withdrawn.

 

JE

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Anyone know where push-pull set 600, come to that set 610 as well, spent most of their working lives? South Western section by any chance?

 

Cheers, Mike C

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