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queensquare
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7 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

I have a varnished six wheeler to build courtesy of that splendid chap Atso for my NPCS rake - it will look lovely with all that red and blue stuff!

 

Jerry

 

A bit of inspiration for you to get on with yours Jerry - admittedly mine (representing a vehicle of 40ish years of service) is somewhat gottier than it would have been at the turn of the last century.

 

20200114_133211-1.jpg.47659c458ea470dc1f13dfaa5512391d.jpg

 

It predates my current method for representing teak coaches.

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i was so busy working on the 'proper' chocolate and cream coaches that I hadn't realised Jerry had posted the pictures of the Pines in South Devon. After all LMS stock regularly worked to Plymouth and Penzance, including an ex LNWR 12 wheel diner on alternate days in an otherwise GWR formation.  Which makes me wonder what arrangements there were between the GWR and LNWR in pre-grouping days with regards to the North to West service. As Ivybridge is set in the later 1930's I haven't delved into stock working outside  that period. 

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The normal arrangements in such circumstances were to share the stock working on an alternate day basis. This was quite sensible because, if stock originated on its home territory on a Monday morning, it also finished there on a Saturday evening (and, of course, Tuesday and Thursday evenings). Any observed stock working of through trains would, of course, have been complicated by the fact that other portions were often included in the train for parts of the journey, and refreshment facility workings would have been made more complex by the need to match the provision every day and not just alternate days, and the fact that the two partners may not have had equivalent vehicles available.

 

Sometimes provision of individual vehicles was linked to a desire to match vehicle mileage proportionally to the mileage of each company's track that the train traversed, although this was more often done as an accountancy exercise than a physical one.

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4 minutes ago, bécasse said:

Sometimes provision of individual vehicles was linked to a desire to match vehicle mileage proportionally to the mileage of each company's track that the train traversed, although this was more often done as an accountancy exercise than a physical one.

 

Closer to Queen Square, this led to some S&DJR stock being on permanent loan to the Midland and used for Bath / Bristol - Birmingham / Derby services, balancing the mileage run by Midland carriages on through services to Bournemouth over the S&DJR. In 1911, this tied up eight of the 46 ft bogie carriages, out of nineteen then extant (counting vehicles Garner lists as built in 1911), along with half-a-dozen vans. There was also a daily working of a 31 ft luggage composite and van between Gloucester and Templecombe, which saw another four S&DJR vehicles running half their mileage on Midland metals.

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There was a through coach ran daily between Glasgow and Bristol, similarly shared between the GWR and the CR, each supply a vehicle with the same balance in the working..  The CR coach was lettered 'Glasgow and Bristol via The Severn Tunnel'.  The route was Glasgow-Crewe-Shrewsbury-Bristol.

 

Jim

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12 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

There was a through coach ran daily between Glasgow and Bristol, similarly shared between the GWR and the CR, each supply a vehicle with the same balance in the working..  The CR coach was lettered 'Glasgow and Bristol via The Severn Tunnel'.  The route was Glasgow-Crewe-Shrewsbury-Bristol.

 

Jim

 

How long did that take? In 1903, the Midland could get you to Bristol at 7:50 pm by through carriage* off the 9:25 am from St Enoch (11 h 25 min), 9:35 pm by the 11 am (10 h 25 min), or 6:00 am by the 5:30 pm (11 h 30 min) - all dining car trains.

 

*M&GSW Joint Stock carriage, rather than turn-and-turn-about.

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14 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

How long did that take? In 1903, the Midland could get you to Bristol at 7:50 pm by through carriage* off the 9:25 am from St Enoch (11 h 25 min), 9:35 pm by the 11 am (10 h 25 min), or 6:00 am by the 5:30 pm (11 h 30 min) - all dining car trains.

I had to trace it through my 1910 Bradshaws reprint.  It was attached to the 10:00 am 'Corridor', arr Carlisle 12:18 pm; Crewe 4:07 pm; Shrewsbury 5:45 pm; arr Bristol 10:47, so 12h 47min.

 

Jim

 

 

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Tom E has kindly printed the other water tank for Bath and it arrived this week. Its looks excellent and again demonstrates that for these regular, repetitive shapes 3D printing is perfect. It will go alongside the tank that Steve Atso printed for me. I do like having things on the layout that modelling friends have made for me.

Other than run a razor saw through the join to separate it from its supports I haven't done anything to it and probably wont find time for another week or two yet but am looking forward to adding it to the Midland shed scene.

 

If I'm being honest, photographic evidence suggests that this tank wasn't erected till the early 1930s, just outside my period, but I shall use artistic licence and include it. The tanks sit behind the Midland shed and only a few inches in front of the backscene and I'm keen to keep the skyline here reasonably busy to help disguise the junction between 2D and 3D.

 

Jerry

 

744839677_20200518_212345(2).jpg.6a312777b3a7482d73e6284cfa6925f2.jpg

982710191_RogerCarpenter.JPG.0ab16d44e0a90001fc3229869681da07.JPG

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8 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

Hi Nick, the 1904 map in your link only shows the original tank.

 

Jerry

 

Using the old-maps website offers you a wider range of maps and dates to examine. The 1932 large scale OS map certainly doesn't show the second tank, and the 1938 six inch series doesn't seem to either, although there is no guarantee that the cartographers hadn't spotted the addition, which finally appears in the next series of large scale maps, dated 1951.

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2 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Using the old-maps website offers you a wider range of maps and dates to examine. The 1932 large scale OS map certainly doesn't show the second tank, and the 1938 six inch series doesn't seem to either, although there is no guarantee that the cartographers hadn't spotted the addition, which finally appears in the next series of large scale maps, dated 1951.

Those 25" OS maps which were reissued between the two wars (and many weren't) were not fully resurveyed. If something "new" appears on them then it obviously had to have been erected since the previous survey, but if something (like this tank) might have been newly erected its non-inclusion is no guarantee at all that it hadn't been erected by the time of the survey (usually one to two years prior to the map publication date). The same issue arises, of course, in respect of demolition. Major changes to roads or railways and significant new developments usually were picked up and fully surveyed. The dates on Aerofilms aerial photographs (now available through EH) are usually reliable and, even at a considerable distance, it is often possible to pick out whether something known existed or not at the time even if detail can't be made out.

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3 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Using the old-maps website offers you a wider range of maps and dates to examine. The 1932 large scale OS map certainly doesn't show the second tank, and the 1938 six inch series doesn't seem to either, although there is no guarantee that the cartographers hadn't spotted the addition, which finally appears in the next series of large scale maps, dated 1951.

 

I do enjoy this sort of detective work even if I then, for whatever reason, ignore what I find!!

 

The second tank was certainly there in 1947 when this (cropped) aireofilms picture was taken and its grubby so I would have said it had been there for a while - certainly pre-war. The original stone based tank is still in its Midland two-tone colour scheme. As an aside, its interesting to note all the items painted white such as buffer stops, the turntable pit  walls and door surrounds - presumably to help navigate safely round the yard during blackout.

 

My suspicion has always been that the second tank was erected during the extensive works around the shed in 1935 relating to the building of the new turntable, largely funded by government grants to relieve unemployment. I dug out this newspaper clipping from the Bath Chronicle but the tanks are tantalisingly out of view. 

 

Jerry

 

631627294_EAW002931a(2).jpg.c13a96fd0e4a160e233e1bc8f92ea2f1.jpg

 

New_Bath_Turntable_001_(2).jpg.c515eaec252ade01d97a0d4c4f3e1d31.jpg

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That white paint is quite fresh, and as I said Aerofilms' photo dates are usually accurate (I seem to recollect that the original files even had the precise time recorded as well as date), so it is interesting, almost puzzling, to see ARP markings reapplied in 1947 to the extent that they obviously were here.

 

As for dating the tank, there must have been a reason for going to the expense of installing a second tank. Was there a date in the 1930s when services were notably enhanced (which seems unlikely in the slump) or when locos with much bigger tenders started to appear. The latter could, of course, be linked with the installation of the larger turntable suggesting that your surmise might well be right.

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Bath shed certainly was prone to water supply problems in the 60s and Mains Water was also

not always available, at the turn of a tap. Wouldn't be surprising if extra capacity was an attempt

to alleviate similar difficulties in earlier times.

 

All the best

 

TONY

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16 minutes ago, queensquare said:

This will probably horrify the wagon purists but, as usual, I'm after the overall effect - a train of similar, but slightly different wagons. 

 

It's not as if you are building showcase models in gauge 1. I can't imagine that you'd be using the generic underframe if it was wildly out. It's evidently the right length and presumably has grease axleboxes. I don't envy you doing quite that many at one go, especially when it comes to applying the transfers! I'd have one or two absolutely spot on to prototype kept in the fiddle yard to show to any passing wagon purist...

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3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 .......It's evidently the right length and presumably has grease axleboxes. I don't envy you doing quite that many at one go, especially when it comes to applying the transfers! I'd have one or two absolutely spot on to prototype kept in the fiddle yard to show to any passing wagon purist...

 

They're the right length now, the correct wheelbase and have axleboxes that are not much more than 1mm cubes......

 

Jerry

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39 minutes ago, queensquare said:

Monday night is club night and at the Mendip group, like many other clubs, we sit around eating cake, talking nonsense and getting on with a project.  I tend to do boring, repetitive jobs which, at home, I would constantly keep putting off so during lockdown, on Monday evenings, I've continued to do that, albeit in front of the telly. I like making wagons but making twenty odd almost identical examples stretches my patience but the layout will eat up wagons, particularly local PO coal wagons. 

For the record they are Association 1887 RCH kits with a random selection of the three ends and two different sides offered in the kit. About 2/3 of the chassis are the old Mike Bryant generic chassis from the eighties with 13mm axles mainly because I had them in stock, the rest the correct, dedicated etch. This will probably horrify the wagon purists but, as usual, Im after the overall effect - a train of similar, but slightly different wagons. Most will be of the two types below with a handful of K, Kilmersdon wagons (which were mainly on the GWR) and also a few, fictitious F, Foxcote wagons. It will be a fair few monday evenings yet before this batch is finished but its surprising what can be done in just a few hours a week and whist tedious, its much quicker than building them in ones and twos.

 

Jerry

 

20200526_001250_(2).jpg.dab6f79a400ae7bde1984b8c3928507f.jpg

 

Good old Fluxite!

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1 hour ago, queensquare said:

axleboxes that are not much more than 1mm cubes......

Spot on for a bog-standard grease axlebox, though I suppose one could round off the bottoms of some for variety!

 

BTW looking again at your prototype photos, I note that Radstock No. 1379 has self-contained buffers, suggesting it originally hand dumb buffers. The bracket holding the headstock to the solebar looks a bit wonky too, suggesting it's also an afterthought.

 

The perils of looking too closely...

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A couple of days ago I was sent an email reminding me that I had promised to post some basic instructions regarding the SDJR 6 wheel brake van bits I had produced. Its been two years now and as I'm building another rake of POs it seemed about time I got my finger out so last night I settled down to put another one together - I'm doing eight for myself. This may seem rather a lot but as the picture below, taken at Masbury in 1937 shows, many S&D freights had two or even three in the consist, not just for extra braking capacity but also as mail or road vans.

 

1075141762_MasburyJuly1937.jpeg.e9515fa3cacc3f35bbb19cfda5c84945.jpeg

 

The picture sequence below should make it clear. Anyone who has put together a few 2mm Association wagon chassis will be familiar with most and it. Nick Mitchell recently did an excellent series of workshops on zoom which outlines most of the techniques and is now available on Youtube - link here http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

1263288897_20200618_215205(2).jpg.f20f0d25d803c0f48f88d0f4232647ee.jpg

 

322633887_20200618_215306(2).jpg.e0cf77662a5f81ab36e7c017ef35c935.jpg

 

1279534106_20200618_220138(2).jpg.50d609c1322a187a890591818ed41599.jpg

 

The first picture shows the complete etch with the bearings soldered in followed by a couple of shots of the solebar/spring overlays which are soldered up and sweated into place. Be careful not to damage the little tags for the bottom footboard and try not to fill the slots with solder.

I tin both faces and sweat these in place with plenty of liquid flux. Others use solder paste. Nick uses a paste flux and then allows solder to flow into the joint with capillary action. All methods work and are equally valid.

 

1250328786_20200618_221042(2).jpg.89a9a03a6dfec2bd27fac3e5e5afe0b2.jpg

 

The upper foot board has four little tongues which slot into corresponding slots in the solebar. Bob Jones designed the etch for me and, as you would expect, the fit is perfect. The lower footboard is the one with two tongues.

 

1628356858_20200618_222304(2).jpg.f6dd1f063ebdbb55c7845c031fa76e78.jpg

 

Next up comes the bit which most people find to be the most tricky, the axleboxes. I can do no better than refer you to Nicks Youtube video as I did them pretty much exactly as shown there. When cleaning them up I found it worthwhile taking a bit of extra material from the bottom edge which left a little ledge making the fitting of the lower footboard easier. The picture should make it clear - from left; axle box layers with hinges; soldered up but not cleaned up and finally soldered in place.

 

190607677_20200618_223924(2).jpg.4a7c252ad0147d6a3d97202cc0d3561b.jpg

 

With the axle boxes in place the lower footboards can be fitted. This is a fiddle but with the aid of the slots and tabs, the little tags and a few curses it all fits as it should.543188420_20200618_230756(2).jpg.9c7d304d5d998a6dc857d42209e0bb47.jpg

 

With everything in place I now fold the chassis up and solder on the brakes. Bob included little fold over brake shoes for added relief but being an inpatient type I did them on the first one I built and cut them off for the rest! There should be a lot more detail here regarding the brake rigging but, quit honestly, with three pairs of axle boxes, brake blocks, footboards and brackets it cant be seen so I don't bother.

Where I differ from Nicks order of assembly is that I solder as much detail as possible to the chassis whilst its still flat, only folding it to shape quite late in the build. Nick folds his chassis up early which I always found much more difficult but having seen the very natty jig he uses I can see some advantages so I intend making one for myself and giving it a go. As with many things, there is more than one way to do a job.419996995_20200618_233338(2).jpg.53af2d573e58ffb67536dca02beb5bf6.jpg 

Finally, the buffer beam overlays and buffers are soldered in place.

 

The nice, shiny brown mat is a piece of Trespa which Nick recomended for soldering on and it is indeed excellent. I simply went to the website and ordered up a couple of free samples which arrived within a few days. The only thing I will say is that I think I ticked the wrong box as the pieces I got are very small although plenty big enough for most 2mm work.

 

I'll do the bodies next when I get a minute - not another two years hopefully!

 

Jerry

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I always find it much easier to add as much as possible while the underframe is in the flat, with the exception of footboards. Tried that once - never again! Folding down the solebars without distorting the footboards was well nigh impossible! 

 

What is the wheelbase and how tight a curve will it go round, being rigid with presumably no sideplay in the centre axle? 

 

Jim 

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1 hour ago, queensquare said:

A couple of days ago I was sent an email reminding me that I had promised to post some basic instructions regarding the SDJR 6 wheel brake van bits I had produced. Its been two years now and as I'm building another rake of POs it seemed about time I got my finger out so last night I settled down to put another one together - I'm doing eight for myself. This may seem rather a lot but as the picture below, taken at Masbury in 1937 shows, many S&D freights had two or even three in the consist, not just for extra braking capacity but also as mail or road vans.

 

1075141762_MasburyJuly1937.jpeg.e9515fa3cacc3f35bbb19cfda5c84945.jpeg

 

The picture sequence below should make it clear. Anyone who has put together a few 2mm Association wagon chassis will be familiar with most and it. Nick Mitchell recently did an excellent series of workshops on zoom which outlines most of the techniques and is now available on Youtube - link here http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

1263288897_20200618_215205(2).jpg.f20f0d25d803c0f48f88d0f4232647ee.jpg

 

322633887_20200618_215306(2).jpg.e0cf77662a5f81ab36e7c017ef35c935.jpg

 

1279534106_20200618_220138(2).jpg.50d609c1322a187a890591818ed41599.jpg

 

The first picture shows the complete etch with the bearings soldered in followed by a couple of shots of the solebar/spring overlays which are soldered up and sweated into place. Be careful not to damage the little tags for the bottom footboard and try not to fill the slots with solder.

I tin both faces and sweat these in place with plenty of liquid flux. Others use solder paste. Nick uses a paste flux and then allows solder to flow into the joint with capillary action. All methods work and are equally valid.

 

1250328786_20200618_221042(2).jpg.89a9a03a6dfec2bd27fac3e5e5afe0b2.jpg

 

The upper foot board has four little tongues which slot into corresponding slots in the solebar. Bob Jones designed the etch for me and, as you would expect, the fit is perfect. The lower footboard is the one with two tongues.

 

1628356858_20200618_222304(2).jpg.f6dd1f063ebdbb55c7845c031fa76e78.jpg

 

Next up comes the bit which most people find to be the most tricky, the axleboxes. I can do no better than refer you to Nicks Youtube video as I did them pretty much exactly as shown there. When cleaning them up I found it worthwhile taking a bit of extra material from the bottom edge which left a little ledge making the fitting of the lower footboard easier. The picture should make it clear - from left; axle box layers with hinges; soldered up but not cleaned up and finally soldered in place.

 

190607677_20200618_223924(2).jpg.4a7c252ad0147d6a3d97202cc0d3561b.jpg

 

With the axle boxes in place the lower footboards can be fitted. This is a fiddle but with the aid of the slots and tabs, the little tags and a few curses it all fits as it should.543188420_20200618_230756(2).jpg.9c7d304d5d998a6dc857d42209e0bb47.jpg

 

With everything in place I now fold the chassis up and solder on the brakes. Bob included little fold over brake shoes for added relief but being an inpatient type I did them on the first one I built and cut them off for the rest! There should be a lot more detail here regarding the brake rigging but, quit honestly, with three pairs of axle boxes, brake blocks, footboards and brackets it cant be seen so I don't bother.

Where I differ from Nicks order of assembly is that I solder as much detail as possible to the chassis whilst its still flat, only folding it to shape quite late in the build. Nick folds his chassis up early which I always found much more difficult but having seen the very natty jig he uses I can see some advantages so I intend making one for myself and giving it a go. As with many things, there is more than one way to do a job.419996995_20200618_233338(2).jpg.53af2d573e58ffb67536dca02beb5bf6.jpg 

Finally, the buffer beam overlays and buffers are soldered in place.

 

The nice, shiny brown mat is a piece of Trespa which Nick recomended for soldering on and it is indeed excellent. I simply went to the website and ordered up a couple of free samples which arrived within a few days. The only thing I will say is that I think I ticked the wrong box as the pieces I got are very small although plenty big enough for most 2mm work.

 

I'll do the bodies next when I get a minute - not another two years hopefully!

 

Jerry

Which Trespa panels did you order as their seems to be a choice of three?

 

Chassis looks superb.

 

Many thanks

 

Martyn

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