Bath Queen Square

[queensquare]

Should add that probably the least likely vehicle in the train is the GW one. - I would imagine they would have gone out of their way to find an alternative route - and I have two of the PC etches for the small N9 in my stash  ... oh well!

 

Jerry

[bbishop]

4 minutes ago, queensquare said:

 

Its obviously on its way back from a race meeting at York or Doncaster:-)

 

Seriously, I have another couple of Midland boxes, another LNWR and a Cally one waiting to be built so I will be able to put a rake together of all northern owners, keeping the LSWR (there's already a 21' box)  and perhaps a Midland one back for tail traffic. The obvious missing ones at the moment are SDJR examples.

I do like the Major Fancy pants idea.

 

jerry

 

ps. I really enjoyed the Southwark Bridge videos on the Scalefour virtual show at the weekend.

 

I wondered about his rank; Lieutenant or Captain could have had naval connotations and he was too thick to make Colonel.  Killed charging a Boche machine gun at Mons.

 

Southwark Bridge.  Several videos sewn together!  I kept hopping between the fiddle yard and Box boy aka uncoupling locos at the platform ends.  You and Kim should visit SB once the pandemic is over, the only operators at the moment have eight legs and spin webs.  Bill

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, queensquare said:

Should add that probably the least likely vehicle in the train is the GW one.

 

I don't see why, if it's a working in connection with a race meeting at Wincanton. Plenty of horses coming from Lambourne. What's the alternative? Walk the horses from Bruton or Castle Cary?

[queensquare]

11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I don't see why, if it's a working in connection with a race meeting at Wincanton. Plenty of horses coming from Lambourne. What's the alternative? Walk the horses from Bruton or Castle Cary?

 

Thats enough of an excuse for me!

 

Jerry

[queensquare]

15 minutes ago, bbishop said:

 

I wondered about his rank; Lieutenant or Captain could have had naval connotations and he was too thick to make Colonel.  Killed charging a Boche machine gun at Mons.

 

Southwark Bridge.  Several videos sewn together!  I kept hopping between the fiddle yard and Box boy aka uncoupling locos at the platform ends.  You and Kim should visit SB once the pandemic is over, the only operators at the moment have eight legs and spin webs.  Bill

 

Thanks Bill, would love to take you up on the offer as soon as we are allowed,

 

jerry

[richbrummitt]

1 hour ago, queensquare said:

 I have two of the PC etches for the small N9 in my stash 

 

Are you sure you are holding the etch the right way up? The PC GWR horsebox etch I have seen says N6 on it (this matches the description on Alan's website and the body shape reflected that assertion). The GWR built 50 of them (and also a large number of N9s if that is what you have) so you need not worry that this was a unique vehicle, however if you really have too many GW horseboxes I would be delighted to relieve you of one. As you know I am also putting together a train of horseboxes - probably a special for a hunt rather than races. Sadly I cannot help you with a short LSWR box. I've had a good root around in my gloat drawer and my unbuilt etched horsebox stash now only has left one each of longer bodied LSWR and LNWR examples, plus a MR example of Bill Bedford origins. Whilst digging I did find a MR dia. 420 4w luggage(?) van of some strange origin - almost certainly shot down by someone at some time, possibly from O gauge artwork since the W irons/springs are not etched so presumably castings - that is surplus to my requirements. 

 

The GER body that David Eveleigh does/did is the best example of any of his kits that I have built. The LD&ECR had some very similar ones that would have passed to the GCR by your time period. I built two - one in GER and one in GCR livery. 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by richbrummitt
typo

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, richbrummitt said:

MR dia. 420 4w luggage(?) van

 Parcels. Twelve built, 10 to Lot 143 in 1886 and 2 to Lot 163 in 1887; all but one were still in service at the end of 1922.

[queensquare]

7 hours ago, richbrummitt said:

 

Are you sure you are holding the etch the right way up? The PC GWR horsebox etch I have seen says N6 on it (this matches the description on Alan's website and the body shape reflected that assertion). The GWR built 50 of them (and also a large number of N9s if that is what you have) so you need not worry that this was a unique vehicle, however if you really have too many GW horseboxes I would be delighted to relieve you of one. As you know I am also putting together a train of horseboxes - probably a special for a hunt rather than races. Sadly I cannot help you with a short LSWR box. I've had a good root around in my gloat drawer and my unbuilt etched horsebox stash now only has left one each of longer bodied LSWR and LNWR examples, plus a MR example of Bill Bedford origins. Whilst digging I did find a MR dia. 420 4w luggage(?) van of some strange origin - almost certainly shot down by someone at some time, possibly from O gauge artwork since the W irons/springs are not etched so presumably castings - that is surplus to my requirements. 

 

The GER body that David Eveleigh does/did is the best example of any of his kits that I have built. The LD&ECR had some very similar ones that would have passed to the GCR by your time period. I built two - one in GER and one in GCR livery. 

 

 

Hi Richard, well spotted, it is indeed an N6 -  I wrote the post from memory! Two GW horseboxes will be sufficient so you are welcome to the other N6.

The Midland D420 would be great if you have no use for it - it requires a 25' four wheel underframe so perfect!

 

That's interesting about the David Eveleigh GE kit. a GC box would be great for the rake so I shall have to try and track one down.

 

Jerry 

 

edited to say would not wouldnt. Predictive text grrrrr.....!

Edited October 1, 2020 by queensquare

[03060]

On 01/10/2020 at 13:32, bbishop said:

Jerry,  why would you want an LSWR horse box in your Wincanton train?  Shirley the only movement on the S&DR would be Templecombe - Wincanton.

 

Whilst looking through old Pines Express magazines for something else (for Compound) I've just found a photo of an LSWR 16' Horsebox in a southbound (ie from Bath) passenger train at Wellow ca.1922.

 

The photo appears on p.10 of Pines Express No.229 and shows S&DJR 0-4-4t No.54, LSWR horsebox and 6 S&DJR coaches; it is suggested that the loco being ex.MR 1305 is possibly still in Midland red livery but with S&DJR lettering.

 

The photo is credited as being courtesy of the NRM (LGRP 3691) if that is of any help.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, 03060 said:

The photo appears on p.10 of Pines Express No.229 and shows S&DJR 0-4-4t No.54, LSWR horsebox and 6 S&DJR coaches; it is suggested that the loco being ex.MR 1305 is possibly still in Midland red livery but with S&DJR lettering.

 

Now I'm interested in those six coaches. Where they all bogies (except perhaps a 6-wheel brake)?

[03060]

The photo appears in an article(s) regarding train formations and so is quite descriptive, I'll PM you later with more info, so as not to hijack Jerry's thread.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[queensquare]

34 minutes ago, 03060 said:

The photo appears in an article(s) regarding train formations and so is quite descriptive, I'll PM you later with more info, so as not to hijack Jerry's thread.

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

Please put it here, its not hijacking at all, its all interesting stuff.

 

I shall go and dig issue 229 out later.

 

Jerry

[2mm Andy]

Returning to a previous theme, there is a programme on BBC2 at the moment - Scotland from the Sky, which looks at the early days of aerial photography during and after WW1;

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09wzvn7

 

Interesting that the presenter went up in a Bristol F2 fighter plane. Anyway, it should be on iPlayer shortly.

 

Andy

[03060]

The train formation information for the ca.1922 Wellow photo mentioned in the earlier post is courtesy of the Russ Garner articles in the S&DRT Pines Express magazines, No.s 225 and 229.

 

Loco : S&DJR No.54 (the 2nd one - exMR 1305) "possibly" in Midland red livery with S&DJR legend.

LSWR 16' horsebox (body drawing 637 on underframe drawing 730 (with skew brake gear.))

S&DJR 30' 6 whl passenger brake van with low arc roof.

S&DJR 31' 6 whl 3rd built by Oldbury with high arc roof or similar built by Cravens later.

S&DJR 30'3" 6 whl 1st with Highbridge low arc roof and flat ends.

S&DJR 30' 6 whl 3rd (as above except with destination brackets in a different position.)

S&DJR 30' 6 whl 3rd (as 2nd coach above.)

S&DJR 30' 6 whl PBV (as 1st coach above but with low ducket.)

 

regards,

Ian.

[queensquare]

22 minutes ago, 2mm Andy said:

Returning to a previous theme, there is a programme on BBC2 at the moment - Scotland from the Sky, which looks at the early days of aerial photography during and after WW1;

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09wzvn7

 

Interesting that the presenter went up in a Bristol F2 fighter plane. Anyway, it should be on iPlayer shortly.

 

Andy

 

Just came out to post about this - fascinating stuff. I will re-watch it once its on the iPlayer.

 

jerry

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, 03060 said:

The train formation information for the ca.1922 Wellow photo mentioned in the earlier post is courtesy of the Russ Garner articles in the S&DRT Pines Express magazines, No.s 225 and 229.

 

Loco : S&DJR No.54 (the 2nd one - exMR 1305) "possibly" in Midland red livery with S&DJR legend.

LSWR 16' horsebox (body drawing 637 on underframe drawing 730 (with skew brake gear.))

S&DJR 30' 6 whl passenger brake van with low arc roof.

S&DJR 31' 6 whl 3rd built by Oldbury with high arc roof or similar built by Cravens later.

S&DJR 30'3" 6 whl 1st with Highbridge low arc roof and flat ends.

S&DJR 30' 6 whl 3rd (as above except with destination brackets in a different position.)

S&DJR 30' 6 whl 3rd (as 2nd coach above.)

S&DJR 30' 6 whl PBV (as 1st coach above but with low ducket.)

 

regards,

Ian.

 

Thanks. That's interesting. A while back I looked closely at pre-Great War photos of S&DJR trains and came to the conclusion that sets of five 6-wheelers PBV/T/F/T/PBV were standard on the main line at that time:

It's interesting to find such a set still in use (with an extra third) in the early 20s, when one might have expected the bogie carriages to be used. I've not looked in every album, far from it, but photos of S&DJR ordinary passenger trains seem rather rare in the 1920s, compared with the number of beautiful turn-of-the-century photographs.

 

As an aside, I see thirds listed as 31 ft and 30 ft there. As far as I've been able to work out, all the 6-wheel, 5-compartment thirds, whether by Oldbury, Cavens, or Highbridge, were the same - 31 ft over end panels, with 8 ft radius arc roof and double rainstrips. They are in fact the only S&DJR carriages (apart from one or two of the saloons, possibly) that are exact clones of a pukka Midland design, D493. I'd be interested to hear if there is evidence otherwise. I can't reconcile a 30'3" first with Garner's register, either.

[03060]

40 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 I can't reconcile a 30'3" first with Garner's register, either.

 

Obviously I'm only quoting the article, the full description for this coach in the system devised by Russ Garner for depicting train formations is :

 

"(T043) S&DJR 30ft-3in 6 wheel first. Configuration (1.1.1.1). Built or converted at Highbridge with low arc roof , flat ends and having a 10ft +10ft wheelbase. Known numbers are 2, with turn under ends, 4,5 and 7. Currently no kit exists for this type" .....(followed by extra info regarding kit manufacture of turn-under ends and flat ended versions.)

 

Would the difference in ends account for the difference of 9" ? There is an extra note that the flat ended version would be identical to No.4 at Washford.

 

....anybody got a tape measure ? 

 

regards,

Ian.

Edited October 3, 2020 by 03060

[Compound2632]

Just now, 03060 said:

Would the difference in ends account for the difference of 9" ?

 

Working on the principle that the construction of Highbridge-built carriages followed Derby practice in its details, even if the resulting carriages did not correspond to any actual Midland vehicles, the turn-under of sides and ends is on an 8 ft radius, giving a 3" turnunder - so 6" difference in overall length. Midland carriages 31'0" over end panels were 30'5" over headstocks, as the base of the body projected a further 1/2" at each end. Note that the length and width usually quoted are over panels, so an extra 3/4" has to be added on for length or width over the beading.

 

My interest in S&DJR carriages stems from my interest in Midland carriages - it's fascinating how Highbridge took the standard dimensions set down by T.G. Clayton at Litchurch Lane and played variations on the theme. For instance, when Highbridge first started building carriages to Midland patterns, Clayton was using a 10 ft radius roof, giving 7'1" internal height at the centre of a compartment. Clayton soon (c. 1879) switched to an 8 ft radius roof, giving an extra 3" headroom, but Highbridge stuck with the 10 ft radius, except for those 5-compartment thirds already mentioned (and the Cravens brake thirds). 

[Chen Melling]

On 22/09/2020 at 23:29, Jan W said:

There's a prototype for everything....

 

Edit: what happend to the buffer of this wagon? It would not be used in regular traffic like this I think?

 

This photo was taken in the 1930s at Haifa Station (later Haifa East, today Haifa Mizrah) of Palestine Railways (PR), where the standard gauge Main Line from Egypt of the Palestine Railway (note singular) met the 105cm gauge Haifa Branch of the Hijaz Railway (HR), which by now was the system's busiest part.
The RAF Fairey Gordon, probably 14 Sqn, is on an HR low-sided bogie vehicle, with its drop-side doors removed. It is probably being taken from the RAF Amman base in Transjordan to repairs in Palestine or Egypt, thus it would be transshiped in Haifa to standard-gauge rolling stock, along with accompanying crates.

The wagon is not missing  its buffers. It has the standard Hijaz Railway central-buffer arrangment with surrounded by two coupling. The buffer housing is just visible on the left, but the buffer head is obscured by the adjacent wagon.

[queensquare]

Not strictly railway related but as our menagerie has always featured on this thread I thought it was about time I introduced the latest arrival in the Clifford household, Ella. She is a Romanian orphan rescued, along with her siblings by a local charity. She is a little beauty, about four months old and despite her traumatic start in life is settling down really well. She's certainly getting the hang of the rigours of workshop life!

 

some train related posts over the weekend.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by queensquare

[03060]

Beautiful....loving her socks....hope she did well in her English language test before she was allowed in ? 

[Donw]

It would be impossible to resist giving that one a home.

 

Don

 

 

[queensquare]

As promised some train pictures. This is the Wincantin race day special, the painted vehicles have been built for some time, the unpainted stuff is fairly recent. Lengthwise I think this is about it for the train, I do have another four various horse boxes in my stash but I think this will do for now - I also want to keep some back for tail traffic.

I will do another post later outlining the origins of the various boxes but it's just stopped raining here so I'm going to dash out with the dogs while I have a chance!

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by queensquare

[queensquare]

Ok, back from walk on what is now a glorious autumn afternoon and waiting for Bungle to give his latest press conference. The train at the moment consists of;

 

SDJR rebuilt small 4-4-0 number 17. This was built by the late Denys Brownlee and is one of the three engines of his in my care. No 17 hasn't featured much for two main reasons. Firstly, it was never very powerful. On Burnham this wasn't really a problem as it just had to haul a lightweight rake of converted plastic Farish coaches on the level. Show it the slightest gradient and it struggled so saw little use on the colliery  which, in its  analogue, Highbury days, had quite a sharp bank across the front. Likewise Bath has a 1:70 climb from the junction up to Devonshire tunnel.

Secondly, it had a variation of one of Denys' home brewed motors which combined the pole pieces with the tender frames which made fitting DCC all but impossible without a major rebuild. 

It is a beautiful little loco and, like everything Denys built, is wonderfully engineered so I am very keen to add it to the roster. I have decided to completely rebuild the tender with a new, modern motor and new frames which will transfer some weight to the rear of the loco in the hope that, in the words of Rev Awdry, it will become a really useful engine.

 

The CCT, OCT and horsebox at the head of the train are the three set of Midland NPCS that David Eveleigh produces which make up very nicely.

These are followed by a GWR N6 (MSE), Midland Horseboxs D397 and D399 (Bill Bedford) and a painted MR D401 also MSE.

The large GWR box next is a bit of a hybrid and the only plastic vehicle in the train. The body is detailed Lima which sits on a test build of one of Rich Brummitt's chassis. It's not strictly accurate for any diagram but is an attractive vehicle.

Another MR  D401 is sandwiched by a pair of  LNWR boxes, one is PC, the other David Eveleigh.

Finally we have a LSWR 21' box which I think has Jidenco  roots, a David Eveleigh GE box and bringing up the rear is a Midland full brake to D529 from Bill Bedford.

David E kits aside, all these are designed for the larger scales so you are pretty much on your own regarding the chassis. In the main I have cut and shut 2mm Association under frames using, where possible, the solebars supplied with the etch.

 

As I said I think the train is long enough now although I do have a Cally horsebox in the stash ready for a Scottish thoroughbred to try it's luck at the races. The others in the stash are one each from the MR, LNWR and LSWR which I shall reserve for tail traffic though I would still like one of the Etched Pixel 16' LSW boxes and perhaps another Midland box or two. The biggest omission of course is SDJR horseboxes but the Antipodian 3D printers are threatening to produce these so I may be able to add a splash of blue in the not too distant.

 

Jerry

Edited October 31, 2020 by queensquare

[Donw]

Very nice Jerry. At the risk of leading you astray, one of the layouts featured in the Gauge 0 guild virtual show is an S&D layout. You may well know the builder but if you fancy a look it should be here https://www.gaugeoguild.com/virtual2020/bathgreen.aspx  

 

Don