Bath Queen Square

[queensquare]

Here are the various bits of the 1F. For the gearing I went with a 21:1 worm and gear followed by 14/28 spur gears giving 42:1 overall. There was room for my favoured 30:1 (60:1 overall) worm gear ratio but I wanted to keep the motor as low as possible to keep the drive out of sight. My 1F No. 1867 with the full cab has the 60:1 combination

This afternoon I made up the backhead - please don't look too close as it's very crude being a lump of lead with various bits of wire and etch waste added to give a representation of the controls. I was pleased to discover that if I made it a little thicker than scale with a thin plate soldered on the front and hollowed out the rear I could completely hide the worm.

The weight with a rebate filed into the bottom drops into the bunker but won't be fixed until the coal rails are added.

 

 

 

 

 

Jerry

 

Ps. Re the spell check, backhead keeps being changed to blackhead - it take no responsibility for any howlers that sneak through:-))

Edited March 24, 2018 by queensquare

[bécasse]

Jerry

 

Looking at that side-on view, it looks as if a good 30% of the worm is actually redundant. Since you have made the backhead marginally over width to hide the worm, is there any special reason why you didn't shorten what appears to be nylon worm (and presumably the motor shaft) instead.

 

I am very unlikely to build a 1F tank, let alone in 2FS, but I often do find myself shoehorning motors and drives into tiny models and shortening the worm and shaft is one of the techniques I have used in the past (polishing off the cut end of the shaft being the worst part of this task - usually accomplished by running the motor with a carborundum disc held lightly against the rotating cut end of the shaft, wearing eye protectors, of course). Now, you make me wonder whether I am storing up trouble for myself.

 

The backhead, by the way, may be a little crude but it looks to me as if it will serve its purpose well.

[queensquare]

The nylon worm is half the length it was. I could have shortened it further but that would have required shortening the motor shaft which I was reluctant to do unless absolutely necessary. I will happily cut and grind away at the Tenshodo and Mashima type motors which are pretty robust but I'm not sure just how strong the bearings are on these little coreless jobs - in any case there was no need as the drive is completely hidden. The lead backhead is 1.4mm thick so probably less than half a mil too thick.

 

Jerry

[2mmMark]

Jerry

 

Looking at that side-on view, it looks as if a good 30% of the worm is actually redundant. Since you have made the backhead marginally over width to hide the worm, is there any special reason why you didn't shorten what appears to be nylon worm (and presumably the motor shaft) instead.

 

I am very unlikely to build a 1F tank, let alone in 2FS, but I often do find myself shoehorning motors and drives into tiny models and shortening the worm and shaft is one of the techniques I have used in the past (polishing off the cut end of the shaft being the worst part of this task - usually accomplished by running the motor with a carborundum disc held lightly against the rotating cut end of the shaft, wearing eye protectors, of course). Now, you make me wonder whether I am storing up trouble for myself.

 

The backhead, by the way, may be a little crude but it looks to me as if it will serve its purpose well.

 

The main problem could be heat build-up in the motor shaft loosening plastic components like the commutator core. As long as you keep everything cool, you ought to be OK.

 

Peter Clark designed a tool for cutting and finishing small screw threads. From memory, it was something like a hollow cup-shaped grinder. Something like that would be ideal for finishing the ends of trimmed motor shafts.

 

Mark

[2mmMark]

Veering off topic but if you've a smart phone open up a new text and keep tapping the middle highlighted word it's predicting. You can go on for hours with vaguely/worryingly coherent sentences.

 

Isn't that how most of the content on RMWeb is created?

[Dazzler Fan]

Hi!

For the 4mm SDJR 25A I chose one of the N20 motors
on ebay with a gear box to provide plenty of torque.

Space is limited on an 0-4-2 and the motor had to be

tilted to get it totally enclosed by the saddle tank

and fire box.  12v models have gear boxes with 100,

80&  60 rpm output.

 

I resorted to a bevel gear set. I wonder if this could also

be of use for 2mm locos, especially your pannier tank.

 

Shapeways now do NYLON on an HP Printer at their

Eindhoven location. - all orders on NY are currently

sent there.

My drawings have progressed into Production and I am

currently waiting on their print of my gear sets.

 

Noel

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by Dazzler Fan

[CF MRC]

Bevel gears are exceedingly difficult to set up to run true and quiet. Just a thought.

 

Tim

[bécasse]

Bevel gears are exceedingly difficult to set up to run true and quiet. Just a thought.

 

Tim

 

Particularly in something as fine as 2FS, you can scale down gears, relatively easily in fact with 3D printing, but you can't scale down working tolerances and if those tolerances become significant relative to the size of the gear teeth you are bound to have recurring problems with the operation of the gear set.

[2mmMark]

Would 3D printed gears have a sufficiently fine surface finish to avoid too much friction? 

 

My personal preference would be for gears cut or moulded from a true engineering plastic, e.g.  Acetal/Delrin.

[chrisveitch]

I've probably already got enough MR/LMS shunters for Bath but I was asked if I would build one of the half cab 1F 0-6-0Ts so I thought why not make a pair! I've not found any evidence of one working at Bath but 1741 was a long time Gloucester resident so no further excuse needed! Mine will be finished in unlined red with Dealey fittings and large 18" numbers on the tank sides. Some spent a short while in this livery although I've no idea if 1741 was one of them and in any case it would have been black by my period but I want a red one so that's what it will be.

 

The customers will be lined red with Johnson fittings - I'm not doing the painting!

 

The first picture shows the basic locos on the bench and in desperate need of a good clean up. The second is 1741 undergoing trials. She passed with flying colours pushing (no couplings yet) the test train up the bank with ease. I've managed to shoehorn 38grams of weight into her and keep the mechanism all but hidden.

 

IMG_3847.JPG

 

IMG_3854.JPG

 

Jerry

 

 

Good to meet you at York today and see these chaps in the flesh - also to get a useful bit of the Clifford philosophy on simplicity in loco construction, which probably made me rethink a few plans on the way home ;-)

[queensquare]

This is the first S&D rake assembled from the fifteen assorted 6 wheel and bogie coaches I've been building. They still need glazing, lettering, door/grab handles etc.
The lining is my attempt at a short cut, essentially dry brushing the beading with a pale straw colour. Experiments were promising but having done the rake I'm not really happy. They look ok when running but static, and in photos, they look scruffy. The main blue is cellulose whilst the lining is enamel so removing it with thinners and a cotton bud shouldn't be a problem.
I dug out the bow pen this afternoon as I suspect I'm going to have to do them the hard way! Oh well, was worth a try.....

 

Jerry

Edited May 13, 2018 by queensquare

[bgman]

Hi Jerry,

 

I can fully understand your dilemma, never the less they do look good. 

 

Using cellulose has probably helped in some ways to enable the enamel to be removed without damaging that lovely blue.

 

As an aside may I ask where you obtain cellulose paint these days ? I would have like to spray my Dean Goods then line in a similar way to what you propose on the coaches.

A web search seems to bring up far larger quantities than I require ( I could probably paint a full size tender with what I have found !!! ),

 

Keep up the excellent work.

 

Grahame

Edited May 12, 2018 by bgman

[Caley Jim]

This is the first S&D rake assembled from the fifteen assorted 6 wheel and bogie coaches I've been building. They still need glazing, lettering, door/grab handles etc.

The lining is my attempt at a short cut, eseemtilly dry brushing the beading with a pale straw colour. Experiments were promising but having done the rake I'm not really happy. They look ok when running but static, and in photos, they look scruffy. The main blue is cellulose whilst the lining is enamel so removing it with thinners and a cotton bud shouldn't be a problem.

I dug out the bow pen this afternoon as I suspect I'm

going to have to do them the hard way! Oh well, was worth a try

 

The method I used was to gently scrape the paint off the corner of the beading with a No 15 scalpel blade, being VERY careful not to take any paint off the panels.  Gives the best result if the coach is brass, but in n/s it doesn't look too bad.

 

Jim

[queensquare]

Hi Jerry,

 

I can fully understand your dilemma, never the less they do look good. 

 

Using cellulose has probably helped in some ways to enable the enamel to be removed without damaging that lovely blue.

 

As an aside may I ask where you obtain cellulose paint these days ? I would have like to spray my Dean Goods then line in a similar way to what you propose on the coaches.

A web search seems to bring up far larger quantities than I require ( I could probably paint a full size tender with what I have found !!! ),

 

Keep up the excellent work.

 

Grahame

 

Thanks Grahame,

 

I get my paint from Rainbow paints who are on the Westbury trading estate which is only a couple of miles up the road from me. I find them excellent and they will mix cellulose in a rattle can or down to .5 litre in a tin which will probably last me a lifetime, particularly as most of my output is 2mm! I doubt they will do mail order but I'm sure there are other car paint firms around. 

Ive attached a couple of pictures with contact details.

 

 

Jerry

[queensquare]

The method I used was to gently scrape the paint off the corner of the beading with a No 15 scalpel blade, being VERY careful not to take any paint off the panels.  Gives the best result if the coach is brass, but in n/s it doesn't look too bad.

 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim, I've tried that technique and couldn't get on with it. I probably wasn't careful enough although the dark blue is very unforgiving of any slight chips or variation.

 

Jerry 

[bgman]

Thanks Grahame,

 

I get my paint from Rainbow paints who are on the Westbury trading estate which is only a couple of miles up the road from me. I find them excellent and they will mix cellulose in a rattle can or down to .5 litre in a tin which will probably last me a lifetime, particularly as most of my output is 2mm! I doubt they will do mail order but I'm sure there are other car paint firms around. 

Ive attached a couple of pictures with contact details.

 

IMG_40301.JPG

IMG_40311.JPG

 

Jerry

 

 

Thank you Jerry,

 

A half litre tin would be more than adequate for me too, I may have a look around the local trading estates to see if there are any similar firms and take a paint sample with me.

 

Very much obliged.

 

G

[Ian Smith]

Jerry,

I used black Rotring ink in a Rotring pen to paint the mouldings on my 4 wheelers, whether a yellow/straw coloured ink could be used on your SDJR coaches I don't know.  

The ink took very well on the cream paint but refused to take on the chocolate, so the mouldings on the chocolate portions were painted in black enamel, and any spillage on the adjoining panels was removed with a thinners moistened brush.

 

Ian

[queensquare]

Jerry,

I used black Rotring ink in a Rotring pen to paint the mouldings on my 4 wheelers, whether a yellow/straw coloured ink could be used on your SDJR coaches I don't know.  

The ink took very well on the cream paint but refused to take on the chocolate, so the mouldings on the chocolate portions were painted in black enamel, and any spillage on the adjoining panels was removed with a thinners moistened brush.

 

 

Ian

They are beautiful Ian, if I can get somewhere approaching that standard of finish I will be really pleased

 

Jerry

[Dazzler Fan]

Would 3D printed gears have a sufficiently fine surface finish to avoid too much friction? 

 

My personal preference would be for gears cut or moulded from a true engineering plastic, e.g.  Acetal/Delrin.

 

 

This is for 14mm drivers.

 

I'm going for torque at low speeds with the SDJR 24a Writhlington "Dazzler"

The final 1:1 drive of the Bevel Gears is only 60 rpm - flat out (80 mph) rated for 12v !

 

Shapeways sell the material as suitable for moving parts and esp. in RC models..

 

Noel

Edited May 19, 2018 by Dazzler Fan

[drduncan]

Jerry,

 

Lovely to see Tucking Mill at ExpoEM yesterday. The craftsmanship was breathtaking as always.

 

Regards

 

Duncan

[Atso]

I was lucky enough to be able to see Bath Queen Square (and Tucking Mill) in the flesh last week. While there is still much to do, it is already a very impressive layout and Bath station building is incredible! Very fine work Jerry and thanks for your hospitality. 

[queensquare]

I was lucky enough to be able to see Bath Queen Square (and Tucking Mill) in the flesh last week. While there is still much to do, it is already a very impressive layout and Bath station building is incredible! Very fine work Jerry and thanks for your hospitality. 

 

That's very kind, thanks Steve. All I've got to do now is live long enough to finish it!!

 

Steve didn't come empty handed either. In the great tradition of inappropriate visitors to the layout he brought this beautifully finished gem made using his own 3D printed body. The finish was superb and showed none of the usual tell tale signs of a printed body. I'm sure Steve will be along to tell us more.  

 

 

Jerry

[Atso]

Thank you for the kind words Jerry,

 

I can assure you that 'little gem' wasn't always the term that I used to describe this locomotive during its build!

 

The model is built to N gauge and utilises a Dapol Schools chassis, a modified M7 bogie, B1 tender frames/motor assembly, B1 bogie wheels and the Schools tender wheels (to get the low ride height of the B1 tender a little higher). For durability, I replaced the Dapol loco tender wires with some thin phosphor bronze wire. The locomotive and tender bodies were designed by me and printed on my B9Creator at a resolution and layer height of 50 microns.

 

Once printed, the loco and tender body were given a coat of primer light sanding using fine grade sanding sticks from Flory Models and Albion Alloys (no connection with either firm other than as a satisfied customer) before fitting the handrails and turning my attention to painting.

 

The lining is a mixture of brush, bow pen and Fox Transfers (for the white/black/white lines as I struggle to get a consistent finish with these). To preserve the factory applied lining, I was very careful repainting the Dapol wheels and found one of my old cheap bow pens was great for quickly painting the spokes! Other than handrails, all the other turned fittings were added to the model once painting was complete.

 

I've still got to paint the tender buffer stocks black and add a vacuum pipe to that end but both are jobs for another day! I'm very happy with the loco (my best attempt at lined apple green to date) and, after quite a bit of fettling, it will haul twelve Dapol Gresley's on the level.

 

[D869]

That looks really good.

 

  Am I right in thinking that the B9 is an SLA or DLP type of printer?
 
If so then I guess that gives you a smoother outcome than the layering artefacts that we see with Shapeways FUD (or whatever it's called today).
 
How do you deal with supports for tricky things like the underside of the boiler?
 
Feel free to refer me elsewhere if this is already posted someplace.
 
(and sorry Jerry for the tangent)
 
Regards, Andy

[Atso]

That looks really good.

 

  Am I right in thinking that the B9 is an SLA or DLP type of printer?

 

If so then I guess that gives you a smoother outcome than the layering artefacts that we see with Shapeways FUD (or whatever it's called today).

 

How do you deal with supports for tricky things like the underside of the boiler?

 

Feel free to refer me elsewhere if this is already posted someplace.

 

(and sorry Jerry for the tangent)

 

Regards, Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for the kind comment.

 

Yes the B9C is a DLP type printer. Does it provide a smoother starting point than Shapeways' FUD/FXD? That really depends on the geometry of the part in my experience. The major drawback of the B9C is the very limited build area at its finest resolution of 50 microns (the later version can go down to 30 microns in roughly the same area). To print Yorkshire's loco body, the part had to be grown from the cab downwards which had the benefit of reducing the number of supports required along the boiler and visible areas. However, due to the way the printer works, there is a certain amount of sag created as the layers are pulled from the build area which needs sanding flat as part of the post printing process.

 

Be comparison, FUD/FXD (I know, the names have changed!) doesn't suffer from this and the supports are of a different material that can be melted/dissolved once the part has printed (albeit with a small degradation of the surface quality where the supporting material was in contact with the model but this can be easily remedied later). FUD/FXD also prints at a resolution of 600 dpi (ish) and a layer thickness of down to 16 microns (FXD) against Yorkshire's 50 microns. While in theory the B9C can produce smoother prints at source, FXD's higher resolution/layers and separate supports evens this out - in fact, since Shapeways has improved their quality control, I think that FXD is now beating my B9C prints on a regular basis.

 

In my opinion, all of the 'affordable' printer materials require a degree of clean up but in most cases, this is no more difficult than assembling a kit (and, depending on the design, can be easier).

 

Below are a couple of examples of FUD/FXD prints at various stages of finish.

 

 

LNER N2, FXD print.

 

 

PPR E6 Atlantic body, FUD print.

 

I hope this is useful and sorry to Jerry for taking his topic off at a tangent!

Edited June 5, 2018 by Atso