The Yorkshire Pud Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 The Blue Point manual turnout controllers I ordered from EDM Models/NG Trains turned up today ....... Hussar !! I need 4 for the layout, but I bought a pack of 5 anyhoo ....... can't hurt to have a spare, just in case one goes unservicable at some future date. Here they are ....... They are a bit like a mini version of a Tortoise point motor to look at (minus the electric motor of course !!) Here's one at the side of a point for size comparison ........ They each come with a spring wire to connect to the point, and there is a "slider" on the front of the unit to change the tension of the wire. You can see the electrical connections for the built in switch ....... at first glance they seem to be quite straightforward to fit (providing I wire the leccy up right !!) I guess I'll soon find out how easy (or not) they are to use in practice, but they do seem to be a neat way to simplify manual point control, coupled to polarity switching. Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2012 No problem Pete ....... Its a good question actually !! ....... from what I could find out trawling the net, there doesn't seem to be any negative issues concerning running a DCC layout and using the Kadee magnets under the track ........ if anyone knows any different I'd be glad to hear about it too before I go too far !! If there had been any problems with DCC and Kadee permanent magnets, I'm sure our US modellers would've been on the case many years ago! Keep on shunting. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Nice layout Simon, I shall be interested to see how you get on with the Blue points, they look a nice bit of kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 If there had been any problems with DCC and Kadee permanent magnets, I'm sure our US modellers would've been on the case many years ago! Keep on shunting. Cheers, Mick Cheers Mick !! I reckon all should be well ........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uglykidjoe Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Shameless plug for my layout, but I have used them and they are ideal for a small layout see New Chapel Street Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Shameless plug for my layout, but I have used them and they are ideal for a small layout see New Chapel Street No problem mate ........ Plug away !! Nice to see someone else using them and (more to the point) getting on with them ........ looks like I made a good choice after all. Cheers !! Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Nice layout Simon, I shall be interested to see how you get on with the Blue points, they look a nice bit of kit. Ta very much Rob They are nicely made, and seem to be just the job. Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Evening all So, I have reached the tracklaying stage finally !! ....... this will be a first for me, having never permanently fixed trackwork down before, although I guess I'm as well read on the subject as I can be. Before I start though, I wanted to have a try at modifying the sleeper spacing on the code 75 track. A short while back I came across the excellent thread by Andy Y about this very subject, and I agree totally, the track is improved with the sleepers spaced wider. http://www.rmweb.co....g-peco-code-75/ I always thought that the sleepers on Peco track were just a tad too close together ......... maybe the modification makes the job of ballasting easier too ? Anyway, with this in mind today, I decided to make a short "test plank" ......... its just a short strip of wood I found in the loft, but it'll do nicely for what I want, and if it works out ok, I can practice my ballasting and groundwork/scenics on it too. So, first up, I cut about 6 inches off the end of a length of code 75 flexitrack ....... it wont be wasted though, as I can use it on the layout later. I wanted to see how easy (or not) the track would cut with a small hacksaw, as this also is new to me (before trying other methods that may cost money ....... I've already got a saw !!) I then proceeded to trim all the joining "webs" off between the sleepers with my small Swann Morten knife .......there's a lot to do, but I got into a kind of rhythm after a while !! ........ just need to take care and not press on too hard, or the sleepers want to pull off the track. I wanted to try laying a curve running on to a straight piece, as this is replicated on the layout a few times, so I marked out the shape of the track in pencil on the "plank" and also marked the spacings for the sleepers ....... Andy Y gives it at 7.5 mm gap between sleepers. Here then is where I've got to so far ......... I pinned the track down lightly on the "plank" to follow the curve, and then spaced the sleepers out to the new 7.5mm gap. Looks way better to me !! Here's a closer look ........ the 6 inch piece I cut off is laid at the side for comparison ........ now you can really see how bunched up the sleepers are before doing this. Tomorrow all being well, I'll solder two dropper wires to the track then glue it down ......... it may as well double up as a programming track once I'm DCC operational !! The only compromise is the points on the layout will remain as they are, but I still think its worth doing nonetheless ........ all being well, I should be able to disguise/bury some of the points sleepers in the groundwork. I reckon I'm sold on this already .......... Cheers !! Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 Evening all So the "test plank" has gone well today ....... Here are my first dropper wires, soldered to the underside of the rails .......... not a big deal I know, but its my first effort, and it went quite well in the end, which pleasantly suprised me !! After stripping/tinning the ends of the wires, and bending one end (which solders to the rails) in a small L shape, I cleaned the underside of the rails with a smooth mini file, and tinned these with solder. Finally putting wire to rail and touching soldering iron to both made the joints ....... Just enough solder and heat, and hey !! ........ it works !! ........ PHEW !! I had visions of overheating the rails, and thus bending them, or even melting the plastic sleepers (although being able to move them aside after the mods now helps) I then drilled 2 small holes in the "plank" for the dropper wires to poke through, and after painting the track area with PVA glue, pinned the section of track back down. A small amount of careful tidying up followed, to ensure correct spacing of the sleepers, and it was left to dry for a few hours. I learnt one thing here, as a couple of the sleepers were not stuck down in the end, once the glue had dried ........ a tad more glue was required initially, as it was drying nearly as fast as I painted it on the wood ....... still, its a good lesson to learn for the future !! So, with the pins removed, and a Peco buffer stop placed at the end, its the start of a nice little siding to practice my ballasting and groundwork on !! It even had its first visitor today as you can see from the above picture !! ........ the sleeper spacing looks much better now I reckon, and all that was left was to tidy up the wires underneath ......... A small connector block glued to the base did the trick. So, after this successful try, I am now confident in starting the layouts trackwork using this sleeper modification. First up though I'm going to modify the points, and start laying these down in the correct places on the layout, as these are key positions for the rest of the trackwork to come off. Onwards and Upwards ........... Woo Hoo !! ........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Evening all Ok, so I'm about to wire my points up ........ Peco code 75 Electrofrog, and I want to modify them so the polarity is switched by the built in switch in the Blue Point Manual Controllers I have. Now I'm no electrician, and as a lone modeller I'm hoping I've got this right. I've researched this to death ........ all the usual sites on the net, and threads on here, and before I start I have a couple of questions, if you kind gents and lasses out there will oblige me ......... The photo below shows my understanding of the principles involved ........ I have cut/removed the jumpers underneath, and the tracks have the insulated gaps built in, above where the jumpers are. Main Bus power feed to the point is at the "Toe" end, and I have to bond the stock and switch rails together as I have shown on each side. On the photo the yellow wire from the frog goes to the switch ........ now my question is this ....... can I take the red and black bonded wires as shown in the photo to the switch also, to switch the polarity ....... is this how its done ? This means soldering 5 wires to the point. The other idea I had looking at it is shown in the next photo ........ Same as before, the jumpers are cut, and the switch/stock rails are bonded, but, these 2 wires then go to the Main Bus, and as before the yellow wire from the frog goes to the switch. This means only soldering 3 wires to the point, and the remaining 2 wires to the polarity switch are taken directly from the Main Bus. Is this an acceptable alternative ? ........... I would be grateful to hear from you experienced modellers out there. I realise that this question is asked all too often, and it must be tiresome to have to keep answering it, but from a newbies perspective, I thought I would just ask here in my thread. Better to ask than have it all go pear shaped on me !! ........... Thanks in advance to anyone who helps or offers advice. Cheers !! Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Oh aye ...... further to this, is it also right that I only need to fit insulated rail joiners after the frog, in the middle two rails ? Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2012 Hi Simon, Your understanding of the wiring is correct. The lower pic means less soldering to the rails. My advice would be to use tag strips or similar to make it easy to isolate sections of the bus for fault finding. Don't just simply wire everything back to one big terminal strip. Cheers, Mick EDIT: yes, insulated joiners at the frog only, but if in doubt, add more insulated joiners, as wiring round them, is easier than cutting a new gap after the track is laid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Cheers Mick !! ......... you're a star !! ......... I didn't want to rush in without being sure. Thanks for the advice ........ I've been cutting/stripping wires for droppers today ....... guess I can do a spot of soldering now tomorrow after work ........ Hussar !! Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Thanks for all of the updates Simon. Amazing how big the spacing of the sleepers looks compared to the standard Peco track. I look forward to seeing the ballasted results. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Cheers Dave. Yeah, when you see them side by side, the sleepers on the original Peco track look very crammed together ........ I reckon the mods will make ballasting a bit easier on me (here's hoping anyhoo !!) Anyway, I'm thinking of trying to bury some of the sleepers in Air Dry Clay too, a bit of a rough and ready Yard ........ another nod in the direction of Chris Nevard and his creations....... (hey, it works, so I figure why not give it a try too !!) Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hi Simon, Can I suggest another magnet towards the right hand end of the layout - on the rear loop road - or even just beyond the right hand point (in between point and scenic break) that means you can delay uncoupling to either loop road. If setting back into the loop to shunt, you can't uncouple until you reach the far left magnet. If in doubt, you could always cut the hole(s) and then lay a sheet of (brown) paper over the top, allowing ballasting to take place to disguise the hole for later fitment, or not, of a magnet. Fitting extra magnets later will not be easy........ I've been there! Cheers, Mick Evening all Following Micks good advice recently in the above post, I decided to add the extra uncoupling magnet today on the right hand side of the layout after all. Its underneath the building, just as the trains enter the layout before the first point. This will allow me to back trains into the layout if required, then uncouple, and loose shunt the wagons down the main track, or into the cement loading loop. Here is the magnet, glued into place ........ And a shot from further back, showing the point just after the magnet ........ I reckon this will be a good addition to the layout, offering even more operational variety when I'm up and running !! I have also decided to wire the points up as per the second photo in my previous post, shown here ....... It means a bit less wiring on the point, and taking the polarity switch feeds from the main bus instead, which I'm happy doing. Also, I've ordered a few Insulated Solder Tag Strips, which should be here Monday ........ again, it makes sense to me to utilise these when wiring up the main bus and feeds, rather than having to keep stripping the bus wire at various points to add the dropper wires. Thanks to Mick again for the advice !! Because of this, I haven't actually started the wiring of the points yet ........ instead, I wanted to wait for the Solder Tags, to ensure the dropper wires I add are long enough, depending on where I place the Tags underneath the layout. Well, thats all for now ....... Cheers !! 8) Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpnewbold Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Evening all So, I have reached the tracklaying stage finally !! ....... this will be a first for me, having never permanently fixed trackwork down before, although I guess I'm as well read on the subject as I can be. Before I start though, I wanted to have a try at modifying the sleeper spacing on the code 75 track. A short while back I came across the excellent thread by Andy Y about this very subject, and I agree totally, the track is improved with the sleepers spaced wider. http://www.rmweb.co....g-peco-code-75/ I always thought that the sleepers on Peco track were just a tad too close together ......... maybe the modification makes the job of ballasting easier too ? Anyway, with this in mind today, I decided to make a short "test plank" ......... its just a short strip of wood I found in the loft, but it'll do nicely for what I want, and if it works out ok, I can practice my ballasting and groundwork/scenics on it too. So, first up, I cut about 6 inches off the end of a length of code 75 flexitrack ....... it wont be wasted though, as I can use it on the layout later. I wanted to see how easy (or not) the track would cut with a small hacksaw, as this also is new to me (before trying other methods that may cost money ....... I've already got a saw !!) I then proceeded to trim all the joining "webs" off between the sleepers with my small Swann Morten knife .......there's a lot to do, but I got into a kind of rhythm after a while !! ........ just need to take care and not press on too hard, or the sleepers want to pull off the track. I wanted to try laying a curve running on to a straight piece, as this is replicated on the layout a few times, so I marked out the shape of the track in pencil on the "plank" and also marked the spacings for the sleepers ....... Andy Y gives it at 7.5 mm gap between sleepers. Here then is where I've got to so far ......... I pinned the track down lightly on the "plank" to follow the curve, and then spaced the sleepers out to the new 7.5mm gap. Looks way better to me !! Here's a closer look ........ the 6 inch piece I cut off is laid at the side for comparison ........ now you can really see how bunched up the sleepers are before doing this. Tomorrow all being well, I'll solder two dropper wires to the track then glue it down ......... it may as well double up as a programming track once I'm DCC operational !! The only compromise is the points on the layout will remain as they are, but I still think its worth doing nonetheless ........ all being well, I should be able to disguise/bury some of the points sleepers in the groundwork. I reckon I'm sold on this already .......... Cheers !! Simon. to be honest the wider spacing looks a touch too wide to my eyes. I use a P4 spacing (templot) of ~ 6.4 mm (25 sleepers per 60 foot panel), not 7.5mm. Also, 6.4 mm = a scale 19.2 inches, which seems about right. 7.5mm = a scale spacing of 22.5 inches. Are the PECO sleeper too narrow as well as too closly spaced? This could explain it - maybe the sleeps are on the correct centers but the gap betwenn them is wider? Did I miss somthing or am I being daft? Cheers JP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hi JP Thanks for the post mate. I have decided on a sleeper spacing of 9mm centres for my layout (just a tad narrower than my first effort) ....... to be honest I prefer the wider side of sleeper spacing, but I guess its a personal thing in the end. After a bit of discussion by martin_wynne, BRealistic and Andy Y on this thread by Andy Y ....... http://www.rmweb.co....5/page__st__100 ......... and weighing up the pro's and cons, it does seem to be a bit of a compromise whichever way you go using Peco code 75 track, so thats how I arrived at my decision. Cheers !! Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpnewbold Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hi JP Thanks for the post mate. I have decided on a sleeper spacing of 9mm centres for my layout (just a tad narrower than my first effort) ....... to be honest I prefer the wider side of sleeper spacing, but I guess its a personal thing in the end. After a bit of discussion by martin_wynne, BRealistic and Andy Y on this thread by Andy Y ....... http://www.rmweb.co....5/page__st__100 ......... and weighing up the pro's and cons, it does seem to be a bit of a compromise whichever way you go using Peco code 75 track, so thats how I arrived at my decision. Cheers !! Simon. Hi Simon thanks for the link - I just boggle at Martin's knowledge of the permanent way (not to mention his programming and mathematical / geometry skills) I had not realised that PECO was a compromise for sleeper width as well as sleeper spacing - but the narrow sleepers do explain why the gap looks a touch wide to my eyes when in fact the centre to centre spacing is more or less the same as drawn by Templot. Anyhoo, the modified track looks loads better than the original, so it will be worth the effort. Good luck with the wiring! JP . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Evening all Finally ........ a bit of progress with Riverside Cement !! I can't believe its over a month since I managed to do anything with the layout, but after a couple of weeks away on holiday, I've just been SO busy at work and home, so modelling time has been near zero. Still, a rainy Bank Holiday Monday ....... nowt to do, and nowhere to go, so progress at last !! I haven't had chance to make a start on soldering the trackwork yet ..... thats next up on the job list, but I thought I would ease myself back into the saddle by painting the sky in the backscene. I primed the MDF first with a brush painted mix of 50/50 PVA adhesive and water, to seal the surface. Then I used a small, foam, Fine Surface Roller to paint the sky ........ in this case, a nice lightish blue (actually its the remnants of a tin of Bathroom Emulsion from last year I found up in the loft on Friday ........ waste not want not !!) Have to say I'm well pleased with the end result ........ Two coats did the trick, and what a difference it makes now to how the buildings look, particularly when you get down to ground level in the layout. Well, thats all for today. Cheers !! Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Wondered where you had gone !! Layout is looking mighty fine. The buildings really do look the business. Regards Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Ta very much Scott !! Jeez !! ........ I thought I was never going to get moving with it ........... I haven't had much time lately, only the odd quick visit to the forum, but things have eased off though now, so I should be able to get cracking again. Thanks for the kind comments mate !! Cheers . Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypops Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I'm also looking forward to seeing your progress now Simon. It's been a while since my last catchup on this thread but somehow you always seem to be top of the Layout Topics forum! One question I would like to ask (I can't remember seeing it), but what are you planning on using for your ground cover? Will you be using ballast stone, or sopmething which looks more like fly-ash? I could imagine this kind of industry gives a lot of dust, so perhaps a finer powder? All the best, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisis Rail Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Excellent patient work - I just hope your scenics and weathering do your work justice.... Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yorkshire Pud Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Excellent patient work - I just hope your scenics and weathering do your work justice.... Ian Ha !! ...... you and me both mate !! I have to say I have no experience at scenics, so its gonna' be a case of "suck it and see" .......... hopefully it all won't go pear shaped at the death !! ........... I'm also looking forward to seeing your progress now Simon. It's been a while since my last catchup on this thread but somehow you always seem to be top of the Layout Topics forum! One question I would like to ask (I can't remember seeing it), but what are you planning on using for your ground cover? Will you be using ballast stone, or sopmething which looks more like fly-ash? I could imagine this kind of industry gives a lot of dust, so perhaps a finer powder? All the best, Andy Ta very much Andy I've been thinking long and hard about the ballasting and ground cover I'm planning on using ....... the way I'm leaning is another nod in the direction of a Chris Nevard technique (hey, it works for him, so I thought I'd give it a go !!) For the ballast, I have a bucket full of gritty beach sand from my recent hols ........ ........ which I have "graded" by three or four rounds of careful sieving ......... my preference is for a smaller or finer type ballast for a start. I also bought a large bag of similar coloured Aquarium Gravel (just a slightly larger sized grain) from a local pet shop for £3 ......... very reasonable I thought considering the price of Model Rail scenic ballast and stone, and I have a jar of irregular shaped, thumbnail sized stones (also a similar colour) bought from a local garden centre ........ quite a good mix all told. As for ground work, I'm going to try the Air Dry Clay technique, blending into the track ballast, and partly covering some. Like you say it could/would be stoney and dusty, especially as there is to be open ground in the layout, and I want it to have the feel of being on the edge of a Quarry maybe, so I may try to incorporate some larger rocks if I can source them I personally think that the best way to represent stone and rock (even in miniature) is to use the real thing ......... I'm not sure I could convincingly model rocks better than the real deal, so I'll just have to see how it turns out !! Anyway, thats my plan so far ........ I guess there's no right or wrong way, just what works for you as an individual modeller, but this seems to be a very effective technique to try for my first effort, so I'll give it a go ........ Cheers !! Simon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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