cromptonnut Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Isn't the idea of the "Like" button supposed to be a substitute for unnecessary "I agree" posts? I thought I was simply following the rules by not posting pointless things which the mods would probably remove anyway - please do clarify if I've misunderstood the reason for "Like". I've refrained from posting unnecessarily in this thread now as it's clear that the majority of people think that this change is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that's fine if that's how they see the situation. I still have the concerns, and as I've said before in this thread only time will tell whether I'm right or wrong - and as I said above, I hope I am wrong, because I do enjoy this place and appreciate all the work that you and others have put into making it what it is; my contributions and skills in modelling being so insignificant in the grand scheme of things particularly compared to many round here, but I do hope that one day I will finally end up with something I'm proud of enough that I think is of a sufficient standard to share with others on here or end up in one of the magazines. But surely isn't that the reason most of us are here, to see other's work and hopefully learn from it to improve our own? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie_pudd Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Well, some topless models would be welcome, especially if there are instructions on how to get the top off. Ed Thats the easy bit, its unscrewing your bottom that worries me, but as the advert says " Love your bum" lol .... or would that be love your boogies. oh no it snot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Strangely enough, if I didn't consider RMWeb a valuable resource to my modelling interests, and something that I would miss if it was to not be around, then I wouldn't actually care what happened to it. Perhaps the fact I'm speaking out should be considered just as useful overall as all the "woo yay" posts that are filling up the thread. I also care about RMWeb, and I also have some reservations about the future of the forum, maybe I just don't like change. But I'll wait and see what happens before making any judgements, good or bad. After all, its only just been announced. Obviously there will be some changes (other than the colour scheme, which to me is irrelevent), but as long as the forum continues with the same spirit and atmosphere I'll hang around, if not, or changes are made that I don't agree with, then I'll ###### off, which would be a shame as I've invested a lot of time and energy in the two blogs that I have here. Anyway, Andy would have been frankly bloody stupid to turn the offer down! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave.C Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have just returned home to the web after a long peaceful weekend away from civilisation. I instantly noted the colour change, but I visited a few faithful threads before I discovered this one. It would appear that the first few pages are full of praise. To be honest I then skipped quite a few pages to pick up the story on the last couple of pages. Alarm and despondency has descended in some parts. I think as a generalisation the evolvement from the original RMweb to the current form (admittedly with a couple of minor set backs along the way) has been positive so I am not starting to think the world as we know it is about to end. In short: Give it a chance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 - Warners have a track record in British modelling forums , which can be assessed. None of the other magazines have tried (and neither Peco nor Wild Swan are likely to...) Just picking up on that comment, the Model Rail Forum hosts the forum for Hornby magazine. http://www.modelrail...ex.php?act=home I always thought it a bit strange that they were able to use the name of an existing magazine for their forum and wondered why there wasn't some connection there - and then for MRF to get involved with Hornby magazine, which in turn has just been sold by Ian Allen, and we know that they have no connection to the Hornby manufacturing company - we seem to be going around in circles ! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 This is a very interesting discussion. Makes quite a change to have this sort of thing go on and on with little or no blood seemingly spilt (yet?) Yes, a really healthy discussion and it is good that some folk express some concerns. In a way it is very much like having a discussion down the pub with your mates (before too many units imbibed). It is change and change can be unsettling. However, my experience of change is that if the folk involved are kept fully informed and are involved in that change, then it is rarely unsuccessful. Andy is there, let us all be there too whatever our views. Then, when the 'new forum' emerges from the temporary transfer pupa, folk can choose to remain (as I feel sure I shall, unless booted out for unsuitable language or soldering technique) or move on. That's life, that's the choice we are very lucky to have here. Anyhow, on a more serious note, can you please not change the logging in method/ passwords etc. as I've only just sorted that out after three years and I still keep forgetting my login details; now what was I saying......? Oh yes. Most people in Lincolnshire, so I am informed, tend not to wear suits and ties unless they are Estate Agents or Barristers Let the show commence..... P @ 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 Oh yes. Most people in Lincolnshire, so I am informed, tend not to wear suits and ties unless they are Estate Agents or Barristers Let the show commence..... P @ 36E Or Barrister's clients? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 it's clear that the majority of people think that this change is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that's fine if that's how they see the situation. I haven't seen many (any?) people say that, what they have said is congratulations to Andy for getting HIMSELF and the forum sorted and then keeping an open mind. The problem with wanting to be negative all the time is you actually start believing that everyone is against you. Personally, as one of the people who have replied to you, I don't have an issue in your not liking or being concerned (or whatever you want to call it) about the future of this place, after the announcement, and saying that - ONCE - it's the fact that you feel the need to repeatedly trot out the same points (and you've still to describe how you envisaged Andys mortgage being paid) in answer to everything. but I do hope that one day I will finally end up with something I'm proud of enough that I think is of a sufficient standard to share with others on here or end up in one of the magazines A door has been opened - but your obviously dislike/distrust of Warners does not allow you to notice that. The difference between you and me (for examples) is that whilst I may have concerns for the future of the forum I don't feel the need to pee on bonfires, time will tell, if the forum starts getting too commercial (as an example) then maybe I will stop posting, but at the moment it's a big IF and I've been here long enough to trust Andy and his judgement to take this place to bigger and better places, and I can congratulate him in his new career and secure future rather than putting him down. If you were to get (metaphorically) married and someone came over to you and said "She'll run off with the milkman you know, mine did" and another said "Congratulations, good luck for the future" - which person would you thank the most ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 It's a funny thing but BRM is the only UK railway modelling magazine I can buy in newsagents here in Portugal . The others I want I have to get on subscription and wait for the vagaries of the postal systems to decide when to deliver. We are all still Andy's guests. Even if the roof is paid for by someone else. On the colour scheme, I don't mind the colours it is just laid on a bit thick (looks a lot less stylish and "clean". anyway what is Villa? - it is the content that matters. True but I think you know what I mean... Villa? Aston Villa is Football Club based in the Aston district of Birmingham and therefore close to Staffordshire. They play in shirts the same bordeaux and blue colours of RMWeb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Oh yes. Most people in Lincolnshire, so I am informed, tend not to wear suits and ties unless they are Estate Agents or Barristers Let the show commence..... P @ 36E Hmmmmmmn.......Well, I now live in Lincolnshire and am neither a barrister nor the other forms of rogues that have been mentioned. For working in Cambridge I do usually wear a suit & tie, and did notice on returning to Lincolnshire that people in shops kept calling me, "Sir". After a phase of thinking, "Here! I was in the queue before him!" and then realising they meant me I was quite bemused. I think it says more about their way of thinking than my appearence. Either that or they're taking the p*@@!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 CromptonNut : I've refrained from posting unnecessarily in this thread now as it's clear that the majority of people think that this change is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that's fine if that's how they see the situation. I still have the concerns, and as I've said before in this thread only time will tell whether I'm right or wrong I'm sorry to see this displays the genuinely poor and negative attitude of a naysayer. No one knows if it will be the best thing since sliced bread, but we don't have to say everything that enters our heads. Members are backing Andy in his decision because it is the least they can do seeing as his forum has brought so much pleasure and the change of direction has given him some job security. Maybe it's me but I gather from your comments that you would have prefered things to carry on as before. We have all benefitted from RMweb in so many ways but just suppose he had obtained full time employment during his long search and found he could no longer spare the time to run RMweb. It would look strange if a guest insisted Andy put himself back on the dole? So come on, sit back and see how things unfold. I don't doubt your sincerity....It is just that your words come over as those of a ne'r-do-well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Well, I have my concerns. Not because of Warners and the take over, but that because our glorious leader has turned his hobby into his job. I know quite a few who have done that, and most have regretted it after a while. So I for one will be praying that Andy still likes model trains in 5 years time ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 "She'll run off with the milkman you know, mine did" Theoretically marriages should now be lasting longer and the divorce rate dropping ... after all, there arn't nearly as many milkman around these days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Can I just put in a word here? I am becoming uncomfortable that Cromptonnut is receiving more than his fair share of vitriol on this thread. Perhaps there might be other reasons that I am unaware of but even if there are, Cromptonnut's posts have been erudite, grammatical and balanced. So, on the basis that 'I might not agree with what he says but I will defend to the death his right to say it' can we reconsider our position? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 ... if the forum starts getting too commercial (as an example) then maybe I will stop posting... What is being missed here is that the future has yet to be written. Now is the moment to discuss the possible pitfalls and search for ways round them if they arise. By the time, for example, " the forum starts getting too commercial" it will be too late. The Warners will have taken a policy decision and "stopping posting " will have no effect. That is the lesson of past experience with other forums that have been taken over by commercial interests. The time to lay down direction and limits is now, before problems have arisen and before RMweb has been included in the Group's next set of profit objectives. I see nothing "negative" in this. It is purely contingency planning for events which may never arise (like house insurance). Give you one example. A forum in another area of interest (well more than that really) was bought up. The new owners wanted to increase the membership to raise the number of hits on adverts on the pages. All sorts of people came in. Mods were "encouraged" not to remove them, and what had been a widely respected forum mainly for professionals in the field turned into worthless froth of wannabes with little value. The highly respected (as here) forum founder who stayed in post (as here) could do nothing about it. Yet this was entirely predictable and a couple of lines in the original agreement would have protected both the forum, its founder, its members and the commercial value of the forum. In the end I believe everyone lost out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 Can I just put in a word here? I am becoming uncomfortable that Cromptonnut is receiving more than his fair share of vitriol on this thread. Perhaps there might be other reasons that I am unaware of but even if there are, Cromptonnut's posts have been erudite, grammatical and balanced. So, on the basis that 'I might not agree with what he says but I will defend to the death his right to say it' can we reconsider our position? My position is quite simple. I hope that in - say - 12 months time, Cromptonnut and you and I will all still be contented members of this forum. If nasty things happen, then we will each make our own judgement about the time when enough is enough. I left a highly-respected prototype forum because the membership had just voted overwhelmingly to retain Yahoo Groups format, despite the list-owner's earnest attempt to offer something more modern. In terms of the familiar, then Andy Y being "our" owner was reassuring, but the exponential growth - aka success - means that has ceased to be a real option, and Andy has acted. His brave move needs our support at this stage, that's all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 "She'll run off with the milkman you know, mine did" My wife DID run off with the milkman.....I do miss him... (Not really...it's just getting a tad heavy now this thread) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 What is being missed here is that the future has yet to be written. Now is the moment to discuss the possible pitfalls and search for ways round them if they arise. By the time, for example, " the forum starts getting too commercial" it will be too late. The Warners will have taken a policy decision and "stopping posting " will have no effect. That is the lesson of past experience with other forums that have been taken over by commercial interests. The time to lay down direction and limits is now, before problems have arisen and before RMweb has been included in the Group's next set of profit objectives. I see nothing "negative" in this. It is purely contingency planning for events which may never arise (like house insurance). Give you one example. A forum in another area of interest (well more than that really) was bought up. The new owners wanted to increase the membership to raise the number of hits on adverts on the pages. All sorts of people came in. Mods were "encouraged" not to remove them, and what had been a widely respected forum mainly for professionals in the field turned into worthless froth of wannabes with little value. The highly respected (as here) forum founder who stayed in post (as here) could do nothing about it. Yet this was entirely predictable and a couple of lines in the original agreement would have protected both the forum, its founder, its members and the commercial value of the forum. In the end I believe everyone lost out. Forgive my abruptness but I've yet to see ANY nay-sayer propose anything, they merely poo poo whats been done - they should get on well with my ex, she could frequently find something bad to say about things but never had any original thoughts of her own (being a bit harsh here, she wasn't really that bad) So here's a challenge - suggest an alternative future ... one which keeps the forum going, exactly as it is, and pays Andy a fair wage for a fair days pay. (And no using Warners, that's already been done) btw - Andy, from my readings, is still the admin here, so he CAN do something about it, yet another example of doom and gloom which has already been addressed if only nay-sayers would READ what has been posted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 we presumably will have no more raffles arising out of our contributions towards the site upkeep as of old, or will we? No, but it won't necessarily be the end of an opportunity to win some goodies! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 ...we presumably will have no more raffles... Steady on, what did I do wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Huw Griffiths Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2012 When those of us who have voiced perfectly legitimate concerns in a simple, pleasant manner are being jumped on and made fun of for daring to speak out - is it any wonder that many have chosen to keep quiet? Strangely enough, if I didn't consider RMWeb a valuable resource to my modelling interests, and something that I would miss if it was to not be around, then I wouldn't actually care what happened to it. Perhaps the fact I'm speaking out should be considered just as useful overall as all the "woo yay" posts that are filling up the thread. I honestly don't mind people airing their thoughts but yours (and clicking on the Like button everytime anyone posts something you think you agree with) have just been depressingly negative when you developed it beyond 'Oh dear' and let others give some real thought. Whilst looking at the thoughts of others it's annoying to have a scratched record/skipping CD in one ear. Isn't the idea of the "Like" button supposed to be a substitute for unnecessary "I agree" posts? I thought I was simply following the rules by not posting pointless things which the mods would probably remove anyway - please do clarify if I've misunderstood the reason for "Like". I've refrained from posting unnecessarily in this thread now as it's clear that the majority of people think that this change is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that's fine if that's how they see the situation. I still have the concerns, and as I've said before in this thread only time will tell whether I'm right or wrong - and as I said above, I hope I am wrong, because I do enjoy this place and appreciate all the work that you and others have put into making it what it is ... But surely isn't that the reason most of us are here, to see other's work and hopefully learn from it to improve our own? I don't think anyone's being "jumped on and made fun of for daring to speak out" here - far from it. What I'm seeing can be summed up as: "You've made your point - loads of times - and here's how you're starting to look. Please, please, please, would you, please, take the hint, please?" I can understand Andy getting tired of seeing the same opinions repeated in post after post - apart from this being very tiresome to read, it also makes it more difficult to spot if any "new" points are being raised. I think Andy's "scratched record" analogy is very appropriate - a lot of what I've read so far in this thread could reasonably be summed up in about half a dozen bullet points. I suspect that Andy - and anyone else actively involved with this thread (and this site) - is fully aware of every one of these points, so I'm not sure that they really need to be repeated many more times. Much of the remainder of this thread appears (to my "untrained" eye, at least) to be a mix of repeats and people either weighing in (on one side or other) or pleading for others to calm down. I've always been in favour of freedom of speech and expression (within sensible limits, of course) - and I haven't noticed either Andy or Warner's trying to stifle this. If anyone's got something new and relevant to say, I'm sure Andy would be interested. If not, I don't think he (or anyone else) really wants the sort of "wall-to-wall repeats" diet usually associated with bank holiday TV schedules. As for the "like" clicks, I'm not convinced that anyone here wants 2 diametrically opposed camps to emerge - in which everyone unthinkingly weighs in to support everything "their lot" say and do, while ganging up to take a "pop" at "the other lot" every time they raise their heads above the parapet. This nonsense isn't really welcome on a playground - and has never looked good in the House of Commons (whichever lot are in power at the time). Why should it go on here - in a leisure related forum, populated by thousands of "grown-ups"? I might be wrong here - but I suspect that Andy is trying to ensure that this sort of situation is never allowed to develop - especially as a result of a perfectly reasonable deal, aimed at securing the future of this platform - this forum - this site. OK, there might be a few issues - a few challenges - which emerge over time - but I'm sure that we're all united in wanting these to be able to dealt with constructively if and when the time comes. Please allow Andy - and Warner's, for that matter - the chance to do this. I also care about RMWeb, and I also have some reservations about the future of the forum, maybe I just don't like change. But I'll wait and see what happens before making any judgements, good or bad. After all, its only just been announced. ... Anyway, Andy would have been frankly bloody stupid to turn the offer down! I couldn't agree more. I don't wish to keep on for much longer - I also don't wish to sound like a scratched record - but I was struck by a couple of comments I heard about 20 years ago: "Some people spend all their lives in the darkroom of doubt, developing their negatives." "When was the last time you did something for the first time?" Over the years, I've been justifiably accused of being cautious and risk averse. There have been very compelling reasons for my approach to life - and it's served me well. However, it's also possible to go too far. The Warner's deal is the only real chance Andy has had to secure this site's future and (more importantly) his own. I trust that everyone will afford him the chance to make this deal work - and finally pull the plug on the "Punch and Judy politics". Please. Regards, Huw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 If anyone's got something new and relevant to say, I'm sure Andy would be interested. If not, I don't think he (or anyone else) really wants the sort of "wall-to-wall repeats" Thanks Huw; absolutely bang on the money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted March 7, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2012 Can we not just leave this discussion alone now and go back to doing some Railway Modelling??!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Forgive my abruptness but I've yet to see ANY nay-sayer propose anything, they merely poo poo whats been done - they should get on well with my ex, she could frequently find something bad to say about things but never had any original thoughts of her own (being a bit harsh here, she wasn't really that bad) So here's a challenge - suggest an alternative future ... one which keeps the forum going, exactly as it is, and pays Andy a fair wage for a fair days pay. (And no using Warners, that's already been done) btw - Andy, from my readings, is still the admin here, so he CAN do something about it, yet another example of doom and gloom which has already been addressed if only nay-sayers would READ what has been posted. Nowhere have I said I'm opposed to what has happened, or that I'm opposed to Warners. I am saying that under any commercial organisation the forum faces future risks and those risks need to be talked about so they may be avoided or overcome - which they can be. If you had "READ" (your capitals) my post, you will find an example where the forum founder discovered he couldn't do anything about it because he was now an employee and nothing in the contract prevented the new owners from exploiting the forum. I'm only pleading for a discussion - and that means letting the "naysayers" have their pennyworth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 majority of people think that this change is the greatest thing since sliced bread I am not sure that they do, I certainly don't. What it means to me is: 1. The future of the site is secure (if anything is these days). 2.The founder of the site has found paid employment after being out of work. (and my very best). 3. We can still enjoy the site, and as anything does it will continue to evolve. (for the better). This aint a blowing smoke up Andy's kilt job (oooh err Missus) but I know just how hard he has been working behind the scenes and some of the thought processes he has been going through. Again I can only offer my utmost support to him for all he does on our behalf and for the hobby, at least now he is paid for it! And doing what you enjoy and getting paid for it doesn't have to put you off. I have been getting away with it for years! ps 20 pages and no mention of Hitler or Nazis at all! :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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