Dapol working signals review

[sigtech]

In case anyone is puzzled by the writing and additional  wire colours added to scan 2 pdf above,   I found when installing the bracket signal on my layout 'Sproston' that it was necessary to extend both sets of operating wires, likewise for red and black power wires.

Regards

 

SIGTECH

Steve.

Edited April 29, 2020 by sigtech
too many words...

[Sweep]

Any news on the likely release of LMS type junction signals?

 

[vulcanbomber]

I am just testing A new bracket signal with a the base unit on a test bed before fitting to layout.

I can see instructions how to fit the base unit to the signal, but no where does it tell you how to remove it!

Obviously I am worried in case it is not designed to come off again!!  Therefore permanently attached to the test bed

[sigtech]

If you read back through the thread you will see an item by "Checkrail" where he describes the problem inherent with removing the base from the signal, in a couple of words DON'T  TRY.- get it in absolutely the right position in relation to the signals base BEFORE you click it into place, I did'nt have any problem, - but then I didn't have to remove and reposition it...

[uax6]

Not got them interlocked with the points yet though Radar?

 

Andy G

[sigtech]

Hi Andy , some things are just a step too far when you are retired!! but yes I had noticed the 'faux par' with no.8 points set reverse (reading to the bay) and no2. down main to no1. platform home showing'off.'-  The mistake has been corrected in the photo library, the offending signal now showing off with 8 points normal. The s&t have been told to get there finger out!!

Regards,

Steve.

[The Johnster]

We may be at cross purposes here, Sig.  The single post signals are made integral with the base, and are quite delicate especially at the point at which the wiring attaches to the solenoid and the pusher shafts that actually work the signal arm.  There are 'no user serviceable parts inside' and it is not intended that you separate the signal from it's base.  Installation is achieved by drilling a 14mm hole in the baseboard, inserting the whole signal through from the top until the baseplate rests on the baseboard, then you do up the securing nut, but not too tight or you'll distort the solenoid casing, and the signal will fail.

 

With a bracket signal it is different.  The signal part has an integral threaded casing underneath in the same way and is fixed through a 14mm hole the same way with the nut, but the solenoids and operating mechanism is not contained inside the threaded casing.  There are push/pull rods in there, which engage with the push/pull rods in the operating unit box, which I refer to as the 'gubbins'.   The signal unit's threaded base tube clips into a recess in the top of the gubbins, and you align it be means of a yellow stripe on the side of the threaded base tube and the gubbins.  The electrical connections are not permanently wired in like the single post signals, but are made by brass connectors inside the threaded base tube and the recess hole in the gubbins.  The wiring for the lamps and the operating mechanism is plugged into sockets in the side of the gubbins, and the wires are pre-soldered to the plastic plugs; setting up electrically is therefore far simpler.  I believe this method is to be introduced to the single post signals.

 

Vulcanbomber has set his up on a test bench and is now concerned that he will not be able to install it on the layout without making a massive hole in the baseboard, probably involving having to relay track.  Courage, mon brave, you can simply pull the signal unit out from the gubbins, mais grand caution mon ami, as it must not be twisted or distorted.  A firm and sharp but not brutal straight pull should disengage it, but I agree it takes some nerve with a £65 piece of kit!  You then fix the signal unit to the baseboard and clip the gubbins in from underneath.  

 

This means that you must ensure that there is clearance beneath your baseboard and around it's framing for the gubbins and the feed connections to the little plug sockets, and I would advise anyone intending to buy the bracket signals to check on this before ordering to make sure that the signal and the gubbins box can actually be installed in the required position without compromising the integrity of the track or the baseboard.  The gubbins will only go in one direction, with the yellow lines aligned.  You may have some leeway in positioning the signal; further back from the junction it protects, perhaps, or up an embankment for sighting purposes, but many locations will not be able to be compromised in this way.  The gubbins box can hang freely from the threaded base tube and does not need further support, but be careful not to knock it about, as you might if you access your operating position by a duckunder or the layout can be dismantled for storage/transport; in these cases I would recommend building a protection box for the gubbins.  Any old polythene food container that's big enough, glued on & with a hole for the feed wires, will do, if it is reasonably solid.

 

 

[vulcanbomber]

With respect to the above.

1. The hole for the bracket signal needs to be 15mm which is not home signals which are 14mm . Didn't realise this until I had brought a drill but to fit the home signals so a bit of extra filing.

I'm going to leave well alone and only fit the base unit when the signal is in place on the layout.

[sigtech]

Hello Johnster, no crossed wires thank goodness, I agree with you - just tried to put it in a couple of sentances for breivity. The reference to 'checkrails' problem was to alert people to the possibility of an expensive disaster occurring!!

[acg5324]

I’ve just unboxed 3 new N gauge GWR LQ and 1 LMS UQ signal. They were purchased soon after release so probably now 7 or 8 years old before being used. None will work on 9V DC using a PP3 battery. One LQ and the UQ signal work fine on 12V DC. Of the other two LQ signals one is completely dead and the other has working lights only on 12V DC.

 

Is there anything to look out for in the mechanism or do I have to write these off?

[Suzie]

2 hours ago, acg5324 said:

I’ve just unboxed 3 new N gauge GWR LQ and 1 LMS UQ signal. They were purchased soon after release so probably now 7 or 8 years old before being used. None will work on 9V DC using a PP3 battery. One LQ and the UQ signal work fine on 12V DC. Of the other two LQ signals one is completely dead and the other has working lights only on 12V DC.

 

Is there anything to look out for in the mechanism or do I have to write these off?

1. PP3 battery might not be able to provide sufficient current unless it is a new alkaline type.
2. You have to get the polarity the correct way round to get the light to work, but polarity is not important to get the mechanism to work.

I would recommend that you monitor the voltage while the signal is operating. The mechanism should run OK on as little as 6V if there is sufficient current available (the internal electronics runs at 3.3V), but the lamp will require 8VDC or 16VAC to achieve full brightness (you might prefer less brightness!)

[acg5324]

8 hours ago, Suzie said:

1. PP3 battery might not be able to provide sufficient current unless it is a new alkaline type.
2. You have to get the polarity the correct way round to get the light to work, but polarity is not important to get the mechanism to work.

I would recommend that you monitor the voltage while the signal is operating. The mechanism should run OK on as little as 6V if there is sufficient current available (the internal electronics runs at 3.3V), but the lamp will require 8VDC or 16VAC to achieve full brightness (you might prefer less brightness!)

Thanks Suzie...

1. Brand new alkaline batteries.......the UQ signal moved this morning on battery power.

2. The LEDs work irrespective of which way round the wires are. 
 

[acg5324]

I dropped Dapol an email regarding the faulty signals. They have asked for me to send them back to them, freepost too. So initially some positive news.

[acg5324]

Friday the postman delivered an unexpected box......three new GWR LQ signals from Dapol.......... All three tested and work correctly. 
 

Well done Dapol.

[Bulleidboy100]

I have a Dapol Home signal at the exit of my fiddle yard. It operates perfectly on 6v DC and is switched via a DCC Cobalt iP point motor. When I switch the power on, the signal motor operates, but the arm does not move. After which it operates as it should with every movement of the point.

IMG_0949 by Barry Clayton, on Flickr

 

I also have a Dapol Platform Starter Signal mounted on the branchline platform. This operates from the same 6v power source as the fiddle yard exit signal and is switched via another Cobalt iP point motor. However, the lantern does not work, and when power is first applied, the signal actually operates, putting it out of sync with the point (easily rectified - but a nuisance).

IMG_0905 by Barry Clayton, on Flickr

 

I was interested to read Suzie's comment about the correct polarity for the lantern to work, Also the voltage for the light to work - I have both signals operating from the same 6v supply - one light works the other does not - should I up the power supply? The fiddle yard signal worked perfectly straight out of the box, the platform starter does not. It would be easy to swap the power polarity to this signal to see if the lantern then works. Another job on the "to do" list.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Bulleidboy100

[Bulleidboy100]

I have upped the power supply to 9v DC and reversed the polarity. Both signals operating, but lantern on fiddle yard signal now "out" and platform lantern "on".  I have changed the "overall" polarity, rather than the supply to each individual signal - just need to find the connection under the boards for the fiddle yard signal and reverse the polarity and I think all will be ok - may try changing PSU back to 6v.

May be polarity was the problem all along - platform signal still operates when power is first applied. Thamks for the help Suzie - I'll get ther in the end.

[Bulleidboy100]

Conclusion: Have reversed the polarity on the signal that had lantern light out - and now both lights are working. Also reverted to 6v DC 300mA power supply - this is operating both signals. All well - many thanks.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Bulleidboy100

[Budgie]

23 hours ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

 

IMG_0905 by Barry Clayton, on Flickr

 

What are those platform lights that work?

 

[Bulleidboy100]

Hi Budgie

 

The lamps are the Ratio SR Concrete Lamp Posts. 

 

The Southern Railway produced their concrete at Exmouth Junction Concrete Works from the 1920’s to the 1950s. They made concrete bridges, concrete platform fences, concrete sleepers, and concrete lamp posts.

You will require:

A pack of Ratio 454 SR Concrete Platform Lamps – this makes four double lamps. (Price £5 from Hattons – but check ebay – I bought for the same price as Hattons, but with free postage).

A 4.5mm drill bit – preferably one with a flat cutting edge, but with a sharp point in the middle.

A 0.05mm drill bit.

A pack (20?) Multi-colour T0402 pre-soldered micro SMD LED’s – Bulb size 1mm x 0.5mm – Choose warm white. These are usually priced at about £5-£7 a pack.

 

IMG_0734 by Barry Clayton, on Flickr

This is not a difficult job but does requires a degree of patience.

Start by drilling out the lamp shade, I used a Bosch drill/driver with variable speed. I had a piece of 12mm plywood in which I drilled a small (2-3mm) hole, in which I placed the lampshade – bottom up – and held it in place with a pair of pliers while I drilled. The shades do have a central “dimple” which does help in placing the “point” of the 4.5mm drill bit – with the drill turning slowly, you will see white shards of plastic curl up. The hole does not need to be deep – 2mm max. With this job done, you should have a shade which now looks like a proper lamp shade rather than a blob of white plastic. As the drill bit had a fine sharp point, it left a small “dimple” in the bottom of the hole you have just drilled. Using that as a guide, use the .05mm drill bit, drill up through the top of the lamp. I found this was a little “hit and miss” – sometimes the hole was perfectly central, another time the drill bit came out through the side – this does not matter too much as the wires from the LED are so fine a dab of paint will hide the hole. Another way of improving the centralisation of this small hole is to place a tube (metal tube – brass?) that is just long enough to cover the top of the shade, it needs to be a tight fit - and drill down from the top – if nothing else, it helps keep the plastic together when drilling.

Thread the wires (two) up through the lamp shade and secure with a dab of glue – I have used all types (Superglue, PVA, Liquid Poly)– it just needs to hold the bulb in place at the bottom of the 2mm hole you drilled.

The shades in real-life (see Corfe Castle Station) are opaque glass – so no need to paint, but you should paint the bulb-holder(?) – I painted mine SR Chrome Green (Precision Paints).

Now attach the lamp shade to the lamp post. I used a minute spot of Superglue (Wilco – eight tubes for a £2 – may even have been £1?). Try to position the shade so that the wires can be glued along the arm of the post. Carefully glue the wires along the arm as far as the central post. When this is dry, run a bead of glue down the post – if you look very carefully you will see the very slightest indentation running down the length of the post – use that side for the wires – try to keep the wires taught while the glue sets. If building a “twin” lamp post repeat the above procedure – trying not to have the wires crossing each other too much.

Hopefully, you will now have a finished lamp – a couple of coats of Railmatch Concrete paint will hide the wires running along the arms and down the post.

The bulbs operate from a 12v supply with resistor to each bulb. I run the power supply through an on/off voltage regulator (dimmer switch??) – about £2 from ebay.

The cost worked out at about £1.50 per lamp.

 

Another picture:

IMG_0636 by Barry Clayton, on Flickr

 

 

Sorry Mods - I should have posted this elsewhere - It is a Dapol Signal thread not platform lamps.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Bulleidboy100

[TheTurfBurner]

My 4mm Dapol GWR signals have developed a life of their own. Installed only a couple of weeks ago, they move “ON” and “OFF” without input from me. I suspect electrical interference, but have no clue where from or how to overcome.

It’s a simple DC layout with the signals running off a 12v DC transformer which is separate to the transformers operating points and track.

Any thoughts?

[melmerby]

I take it the current signals still work using a momentary push switch to change position?

[Chris M]

My recommendation is to buy broken ones. I got some non working at a reasonable price direct from Dapol and now they are worked by servo. This is a much quieter option. All the LEDs still work - I just feed them 2.7 volts direct. 
 

Oops  - I’ve just realised that by posting this my supply of broken signals might dry up!

[TheTurfBurner]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

I take it the current signals still work using a momentary push switch to change position?

It's the junction and bracket signals that are the problem, and I'm just using the Dapol supplied switch. 

[TheTurfBurner]

6 hours ago, melmerby said:

I take it the current signals still work using a momentary push switch to change position?

I think I'm a little further on. Electrofrog points with a main line through a station and a loop. If the main is isolated at both ends, the signals go crazy - but if only isolated at one end, they are fine. 

 

No idea yet of the cause as the signals and track are not connected in any way. But at least I have a "work around". 

[MoonMonkey]

I haven't found an answer to this already, possibly because its a loopy thing to do to an expensive item... but here goes... 

Has anyone had a go at modifying the part of a Dapol motorised signal which is under the surface of the board?  The signal itself which sits on the board is nice.  But I don't have enough clearance under the board to fit the sub-assembly which contains the mechanics and electronics.  I'm therefore wondering if its possible to modify it, such that this sub-assembly is on an angle or even rotated 90 degrees so it sits parallel to the board.  Or possibly shortening it by keeping the mechanical element upright but realigning the electonics.