Dapol working signals review

[Gwiwer]

Having stripped down a defective signal I doubt it is possible to shorten the casing for any reason.  Rotating it by cutting through immediately beneath the baseplate would require a reliable means to transmit the two-way motion generated by the motor through the 90-degree turn in the signal control wire.  A pretty significant technical challenge but it might be possible.  

[Free At Last]

I would like to see Dapol have a go at something like this...

Edited September 16, 2022 by Free At Last

[MoonMonkey]

Thanks, Gwiwer.  I suspected that might be the view of others.  I shall sit on it (proverbially, not on the actual signal) for a while before I go and buy any form of signal.  Someone might have a genious way of doing it easily.  I think it'll probably be a ratio kit for a static model though.  

[MoonMonkey]

About modifying the Dapol motorised signal mechanism to go under a baseboard where there isn't enough clearance. 

Clearly anything like this is going to invalidate the warranty.  Obviously this is relatively high risk as some of the wiring is very fine and the components may be fragile.   This entry here is just how I did it out of interest, presented by way of 'lessons learned' and for entertainment.  This is not presented as an instruction or how-to.  If you decide to have a go at this, it is at your own risk.  Don't blame me if it goes wrong, you crazy fool!

 

I took a deep breath and had a go at modifying a Dapol motorised signal to fit onto my baseboard, given that there is insufficient clearance under my board to accommodate the assembly containing the workings.  I wondered if it was possible to rotate the housing somehow.  

Here's what I found.  Mainly that it is tricky work, and there is a fair chance that the thing will be knackered completely.  

 

I managed to split the casing easily enough using a couple of small screwdrivers (xmas cracker ones, the size for speccy people who wear giggs) to prize the 2 halves apart.  The screw sheers easily enough.  This left me with half the cylinder-shaped housing attached to the signal base, and half that comes away.  Presented inside were the electronics on a rectangular circuit board, and a motor assembly.  Some of the wiring is very fine gauge. 

Both the circuit board and the motor came out of the respective halves of the housing, one half of which remained attached to the signal base.  The half of the casing which was attached to the signal base was then cut (i.e. shortened) using zuron cutters or something.  

I have to admit, I had a go on a damaged one first... my main lesson learned was DO NOT cut the circuit board in two, and neither will it work if the circuit board is removed completely by cutting those wires.  It appeared that the wiring to the bulb (the wires that disappear up into the signal post) will not, on their own, allow the bulb to illuminate (even if the yellow wires were connected).  The circuit board therefore needed to be left intact.  This could, however, then be rotated to be fixed to the underside of the baseboard.  

 

Having learned that, I moved onto the 'good' signal that I hoped to modify...

 

The red and black wires were wired as usual to the power supply as per instructions, and the bulb still worked, because really the only thing I'd done was to split the casing and have the assemblies inside loose albeit rotated 90% to their normal orientation.  Some very fine wires came away from their points on the circuit board, but even I managed to solder these back on by applying a little heat from the tip of the iron onto the solder that was already on the board (once I'd gently rubbed off the insulation to expose some bare wire).    Fortunately, I'd take a photo of the items before I started messing around with them, so I know where the wires needed to be relocated.  

The motor assembly could also be oriented parallel to the underside of the baseboard.  At this point it got tricky.  I have to say, I lost the will to carry on with the task, so the motor assembly (in the casing half that was not attached to the base) and the yellow wiring are just bundled up and taped to the underside of the board alongside the circuit board (obviously the ends of the yellow wires are now taped up with electricians’ tape to prevent any unplanned connection being made for the motor).  The signal therefore requires the 'hand of god' to change it, but the bulb works.  However, for what I want that's fine as the signal is unlikely to change anyway at that point on my layout.  

 

In case it's of use to anyone else... having reoriented the assemblies and got the light working...  How could I get the signal arm working?  My thoughts for if I pick this up again in the future are:

 

I think it could be possible with more time and material options than I had.  The motor assembly will need to lie in the half of the casing that separated from the signal base, so don’t break that half of the casing. The motor works on a worm wheel, so I needed to identify the point up the half of the casing where the worm wheel pushes the 'pusher' (ie the pusher that would normally engage with the base of the signal wire) beyond the point when it becomes detached. I found this point easily, and simply cut a shard of picture framing card (any material of a few mm thick would do) and superglued it to the inside of the casing.  Thus, the worm wheel still pushes the 'pusher' up but it doesn't disconnect.  That assembly could then be attached (maybe using superglue) to the underside of the baseboard. 

The tricky bit will be changing the direction of movement from the now horizontal motor assembly and pusher, to the vertical base of the signal wire.  

The base of the signal pusher wire (the wire that goes up through the base to the signal arm, perhaps calling it the pusher rod may be better?)  is a small bit of plastic with a small spring attached.  

The end of the pusher on the motor assembly is a flat face.

I worked out that, in theory, a small length of electrical wire insulation (I used Peco wire, the kind for point motor wiring) with the metal wire taken out (i.e. strip a good length to start with, maybe 10 cm, but then shorten to fit your gap) will flex - but only in a limited way - if it’s only a few cm long.  So, the horizontal movement from the motor pusher should translate into a vertical movement onto the base of the signal wire, presumably due to the slight rigidity of the hollow tube of insulation.  This would mean (if I could get it to work) that there was no need for a crank pivoting around a bracket to change the direction of movement.  

I found that the stripped insulation will fit into the spring at the base of the signal wire at the base of the signal pusher rod, and a small amount of superglue on the end of the insulation would keep it attached, although I then ever so slightly crimped the spring onto the insulation tube.  That end worked fine.  

I then came unstuck (literally) because I couldn't get the other end of the insulation tube to stick to the end of the pusher on the motor, it just wouldn't stick.  I tried a small strip of plastic which was glued to the pusher on the motor assembly, and then glued the plastic to the insultation, but the bond wasn't strong enough.  

So... if  in future I choose to give this a go again, the difficult bit will be gluing/fixing the insulation tube to the end of the motor pusher.  If I can crack that, then I've probably got a viable method of rotating the Dapol signal mechanisms under the baseboard.  

 

To be honest, I found it to be a lot of faff, and perhaps adding some extra baton under the board to create the necessary clearance might be a better bet, depending on board set-up in future. 

I did take some photos but I'm not sure they'll be much use.  

 

It was an interesting challenge.  Next, I shall lock myself away and paint a large area of wall Black.  And then some more black.  Then, I shall apply an eye mask and listen to white noise.  

 

[Rshakes3]

Thanks team, I now have 4 of these GW Bracket signals worked by the DCC concept's cobalt switches and I`m very happy with them.  I also had a bit of fun with the 'drive' unit and the placement under the base board with 2 of them but I was able to get them positioned correctly with a bit of work. Now earlier on in this thread (Or was it in another one?) there was a fellow modeler who asked the question about disconnecting the  base/drive unit once it was connected - was there any response to this? I`d be interested to know because 1 day I may want to build a new layout and re use these signals and it would be useful to know if this is possible. Please let me know

[Jenny Emily]

I have done an install of the junction signals. I was really impressed with them and found them really easy to install. I prefer these to the previous single arm signal mechanisms. 
 

in answer to a previous poster, I attached and detached the base unit a few times during filming and the signal is just fine for it. 
 

 

 

[Richard E]

1 hour ago, Jenny Emily said:

I have done an install of the junction signals. I was really impressed with them and found them really easy to install. I prefer these to the previous single arm signal mechanisms. 
 

in answer to a previous poster, I attached and detached the base unit a few times during filming and the signal is just fine for it.

 

Great video, thanks. Was removing the servo housing difficult at all, it feels as if it clicks home rather securely.

 

I've got hold of an incomplete version at half price (just a missing switch and lead) which I intend to bash into a signal I want but it might need the servos fitted and removed to complete the modifications.

[The Stationmaster]

Well done Jenny for getting good descriptions in relation to real world signals - something which so often seems to go astray where modellers are concerned.

[shedman]

Looking good. It's a shame they're GWR, won't suit my layout.

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, shedman said:

Looking good. It's a shame they're GWR, won't suit my layout.

Converts to our cause are always welcome and are warmly received 

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Converts to our cause are always welcome and are warmly received 

Converts to the signal to make it look more like an U/Q LMS/LNER/BR type would be nice!

Somehow I don't anticipate RTR GNR Somersaults in the foreseeable future.

[melmerby]

Good review Jenny, I was impressed enough to order a couple.

Should be here next week.

[2750Papyrus]

On 16/12/2021 at 12:34, Michael Hodgson said:

Converts to the signal to make it look more like an U/Q LMS/LNER/BR type would be nice!

Somehow I don't anticipate RTR GNR Somersaults in the foreseeable future.

Shame!

[melmerby]

I received my signals (3 in total) before Christmas and have been having a play re: DCC operation.

 

Dapol tell you to use a Dapol 4A-001-002 / Train Tech SC4  (typically around £40 for two arms) or a DigiKeijs DR4018 somewhat chaeaper but IIRC needs to be set up carefully for the right operation. It must be volt free i.e. no voltage to the siganl from the switching device.

 

I though I could devise something much simpler to work off an Arduino.

 

The voltage used for the operation of the arms is 5v but drops to around 2.5v if using a permanent changeover switch as supplied, the current is less than 30mA through the contact.

My first thought was 5v relays driven from the Arduino and have ordered some suitable ones.

However I though it should be simpler than that, so using a couple of LTV817 optocouplers (Basic 4 terminal devices), I tried them and they work perfectly

Driven from an Arduino at about 20mA forward current, they switch on hard enough to operate the signals perfectly.

 

I have ordered some LTV847, these are the quad version and will require one per dual arm signal. They are £2.10 each including postage.

Using an Arduino Nano clone and 4 of those should control 4 dual arm signals and incuding the Nano and a bew other components should come in at £20 or so.

Much more economic.

 

EDIT

I have started a new topic in the DCC section to catalogue my progress.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by melmerby

[Rshakes3]

Hi all, thank you so much Jenny for confirming that with care the 'drive unit' can be removed if and when required. I`ve had these for a few months now and I`m still very happy with them - very good models 

[melmerby]

12 hours ago, Rshakes3 said:

Hi all, thank you so much Jenny for confirming that with care the 'drive unit' can be removed if and when required. I`ve had these for a few months now and I`m still very happy with them - very good models 

Whilst working on my DCC set up I have plugged/unplugged several times with no ill effect.

They are far from locked on permanently when joined.

 

 

[Going2theDogs]

Hi All,

Attached a short video showing the Dapol SR starter signal in operation.

I have been impressed with these as they are easy to install & add some ‘real life’ realism albeit a little noisy….

Enjoy!

 

 

[Free At Last]

On 03/09/2021 at 22:50, Free At Last said:

I would like to see Dapol have a go at something like this...

 

Dapol have just announced some new LMS bracket signals.
I was hoping for a balanced bracket with the same sized dolls to use for platform starters. I did ask them to consider it when they first introduced the bracket signals.

[Peanut89]

Hi, apologies if this has been asked before. Has anyone bought Dapol signals and modified them?

Like could one of the main arms be turned into a sub?

Cheers

[melmerby]

43 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

 

Dapol have just announced some new LMS bracket signals.
I was hoping for a balanced bracket with the same sized dolls to use for platform starters. I did ask them to consider it when they first introduced the bracket signals.

Interestingly the LMS braket signals have a finer operating linkage than the GWR ones.

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, Free At Last said:

 

Dapol have just announced some new LMS bracket signals.
I was hoping for a balanced bracket with the same sized dolls to use for platform starters. I did ask them to consider it when they first introduced the bracket signals.

 

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Interestingly the LMS braket signals have a finer operating linkage than the GWR ones.

It is a completely different mechanism. The grinding servo is gone. Both arms have wires which plug into the box which is itself separate to the arm and threaded tube. 
 

You still need a 13mm hole but the box will push-fit underneath the board. 
 

These look good, work positively and quickly and are very much quieter than previous Dapol semaphores 
 

SR version are a year or so behind. 

[melmerby]

10 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 

It is a completely different mechanism. The grinding servo is gone. Both arms have wires which plug into the box which is itself separate to the arm and threaded tube. 
 

You still need a 13mm hole but the box will push-fit underneath the board. 
 

These look good, work positively and quickly and are very much quieter than previous Dapol semaphores 
 

SR version are a year or so behind. 

?

Sounds just like the GWR ones I have and the GWR ones Jenny reviewed in December.

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

A 2 doll example of the new LMS bracket was on show at the Kernow 20th Anniversary event this past weekend.  An  absolutely superb piece of work with a very interesting (prototypical) feature although we weren't able to see it working 

[Flying Pig]

10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

A 2 doll example of the new LMS bracket was on show at the Kernow 20th Anniversary event this past weekend.  An  absolutely superb piece of work with a very interesting (prototypical) feature although we weren't able to see it working 

 

Hmm - if they've managed a working lampman that could have much broader implications...

[Grovenor]

I suspect just the torsion bar linkage, visible on the photos.