Jump to content

Jamiel

Ellerby - 4mm, buildings, rolling stock, scratch & kit building.

Recommended Posts

Just a quick photo to show this week's progress. Filing and sanding with Wet & Dry was done to the roof ends, and lines added, plus the BR style air vent. The interior has mostly been made. I soldered a couple of cross braces in cut from the brass sprue to strengthen the middle of the coach body. I built the side steps as described, but I couldn't fold them fully in, so cut them apart a bit, and then soldered them solidly in place.

Saloon11.jpg

Still to do the interior doors, maybe a little detail in the kitchen, but a lot as the window is frosted. A few bits of plastic to detail the outside and the door hinges and then I can start undercoating.

I thought it looked very nice all as brass, the plasticard additions make it feel messy to me, but of course when painted an glazed it will all come together.

My soldering has improved no end during this first brass build, I feel almost ready to take on the Black 5.

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A quick update. My main computer looks like it has blown its graphics card (I hope), so typing on a laptop, and processing the photos on that. I'm not a laptop fan, having worked on desktops and similar workstations for 30 years, I need my big monitor, tablet and proper keyboard. I also over exposed the photos of the saloon just before undercoating, which is a bit annoying as I love the look of brass models before painting.
 

Away, for all that, I have just done a little more detailing with plastic strip and card, and then undercoated the model.

 

Saloon12.jpg

Saloon13.jpg

Saloon14.jpg

With a lot of other things to sort out, modelling time has been hard to find, and my mind is elsewhere, hopefully soon things will settle down.

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The LMS Inspection saloon has its first coat of paint, Phoenix BR Maroon Dull, I feel it is very blue, good for parcels stock before weathering, but not enough pure red for my tastes. I can either mix it with a signal red, or look for a brighter BR Maroon, Phoenix or Humbrol.

Any suggestions? I only use enamels.

Saloon15.jpg

Saloon18.jpg

I can say that detailing the gear around the wheels is much easier working with brass as white metal, compared to plastic. Bend a hanger to shape and a dab of solder and it is in place and solid. I am even getting the hang of doing brake shoes and cross rods, not perfect but OK hidden under there. The fact they are all there, if not at exactly the right height makes for a nice feel to the underframe.

I also cut off the bars at the bottom of the bogie which in the thin white metal were floppy and easily bent, and already bent, and replaced them with bits of metal sprue/off-cuts from the brass sheets.

Saloon16.jpg

Saloon17.jpg

So just painting, finding a few washers to pad the bogies from the frame, then interior detailing and the odd bits of finishing. Obviously this is no where near the standards of modellers like Coachman, Tony Wright, or the many experienced modellers on the forum, but for a first brass kit, I am pretty pleased how it has gone. My ability to solder has changed massively over the last few weeks, and as Tony Wright said, making a kit like this is your own model, yes one from a kit, but one that you get the chance to make in your way, add the little details that make it an individual build, and at the end you can say 'I built that'. If anyone is wondering about trying a brass kit, I would say it is much, much easier than I expected. A couple of years of doing detailing kits did give me a good grounding, but still just diving in and making this has been great.

Still a bit to do on the station building, and starting to read through the instructions for the Comet Caprotti Black 5, I think that is going to be fun to build.

That said I am back on set on a film, so time might be limited a bit over the next couple of weeks.

Edited by Jamiel
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The LMS Inspection saloon has its first coat of paint, Phoenix BR Maroon Dull, I feel it is very blue, good for parcels stock before weathering, but not enough pure red for my tastes. I can either mix it with a signal red, or look for a brighter BR Maroon, Phoenix or Humbrol.

 

Any suggestions? I only use enamels.

 

 

I think you should be very proud of what you have achieved - particularly for a first brass build.  As regards the "blue" hue that is due to using a grey primer.  Reds are notoriously poor to 'cover' so even the Midland used a red oxide undercoat under the Crimson Lake and this practice continued under the LMS - and maybe B.R.  I always use a red oxide car spray primer under reds and bauxite top coats but grey for blacks and greens.  I realize that it's a bit late to change the primer for this project but a second top coat and a coat of satin varnish may brighten it up.  FWIW I reckon the Railmatch maroon is even more 'purpley' than Phoenix.  I still have one remaining (unopened) 2oz. tin of the 'old Precision' Crimson Lake which, IMHO, was a much better product but is probably not 'safe' these days!

Cheers,

Ray.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ray for the advice.

I am always planned to use two coats of the BR Maroon, perhaps I will try mixing just a little signal red to compensate for the grey primer. It will be weathered a little, and since the inspection saloon will mostly run as a single coach behind a loco, any mismatch of colour should be less of a problem than if it were part of a rake of coaches.

I need to get some more primer, so I will get a grey and a red oxide cans for the next time.

Jamie

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another coat of red, Phoenix BR Maroon Dull with a little Signal Red added in seems to have got a colour I am happy with. The white balance on the camera was something between shade and incandescent, so the photo is not a true colour, plus some compensation in Photoshop.

Saloon19.jpg

So while bits are drying, I couldn't resist starting my next project, the Comet Caprotti Black 5 (Ivatt design). Tony Wright's video on building brass locos being watched in 10 minute bursts ahead of any soldering and reading the instructions much more carefully. Also closely looking at Facalplane's blog on building one,  some excellent photos to follow,  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1565/entry-15350-comet-ivatt-caprotti-class-5-motorgearbox-and-front-bogie/

So here it is laid out on the tidied (not for long I suspect) workbench.

Black5_01.jpg

Black5_02.jpg

A Poppy's loco building jig as recommended by many on the forum, it is really helpful.

Black5_03.jpg

I was just going to have a look how some bits fitted together last night, but as everyone else had gone to bed I had time free to myself, so after two hours of modelling I had the core of teh chassis together, and the Poppy's jig kept it all in line.

Black5_04.jpg

I did get the front very slightly skew as it is away from the wheel bearings that hold it all in place, but I matched it against the centre line on the jig, and heated the cross braces and eased it true.

This is so enjoyable. As always a list of those who deserve thanks for inspiration and advice, Tony Wright, Focalplane, BarryO, Mike Edge, Alan, and Nick from LeedsMRS and all who contribute to the Wright Writes, thread especially Grob1234, Mullie.

Also a huge thank you to my partner Sarah, as this was my Christmas present last year 'You want a what? You buy it and I'll transfer the money if that is easier. I'll never remember what that is or where to get it.'

Right off to take on wheels and brakes gear.

Jamie

PS. The thread has reached 66,000 views (not all my looking back at it) and 89 followers, thank you to everyone popping by to have a look.

Edited by Jamiel
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly I must add a couple of thanks I omitted from those who have inspired me to take my modelling to a higher level.

92220, who is building a wonderful layout based on Camden shed, here is a link to the rolling stock thread with some wonderful kits builds, detailing and conversions.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65335-motive-power-for-camden-shed/page-15

and Jason T, who has built the lovely 'Bacup' and 'The Mill' layouts.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/90024-the-mill/page-39

Seeing both their kit building and layout work has been a great inspiration.

Back to the Comet Black 5. I have deviated from Tony Wright's order of build as I have to make a decision which way round I am going to put the gearbox and motor. The space in the white metal cast firebox would give more space for a horizontally mounted motor, but I am not sure that the gear box would not foul the front of the firebox if I tried that. If the motor is mounted vertically I suspect it would be a very tight fit.

So I have made a start of the body so that I can fit it all together and see which works best

Black5_05.jpg

I have been using my standard Maplin solder for the build up to now, but when I came to solder the cab sections I found that the model had become big enough to be an effective heat sink, so I have changed to 145 degree solder for adding large sections.

Although I read the instructions for the chassis carefully, I didn't realise that the ones in the chassis pack were for a long wheel base standard Black 5, so when I checked thse against the instructions in the box I realised what I had suspected that the top of the chassis pieces needed taking back to the curved section to fit the low running plate and splashers. It was quite easy to do, so no loss of quality due to that.

Really enjoying the build.

Jamie

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your kind words, Jamie.

Looking forward to seeing this take shape. When I built both LRP (44741) and HRP (44687) Caprotti Black Fives, I was still relying on adapting Hornby models. 44687, though complicated in some ways, was a breeze compared to 44741, but I would think a well designed kit (this one!) would be a much better way to go than my method.

 

The Comet kit looks excellent as per usual, and if it is as good as the old Rebuilt Scot I am doing at the moment, it will no doubt be very satisfying. I don't know whether provision is made for a different boiler pitch depending on whether it had roller bearings or not (and consequently whether it had bent or straight steam pipes. You'll definitely need to pick the prototype to get the variations right, if that's what you want. Beware the different reversing rod on 44738. If you haven't already got it, this book:

 

post-10140-0-01727200-1506575642_thumb.jpg

 

is absolutely brilliant.

 

The only doubt I had from looking at completed Comet Caprottis was that the top feed always looked too prominent. Don't know whether that is just my eyes, but it maybe worth investigating a replacement. I might even have one.

 

Iain

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some excellent modelling work, inspiring, but I fear too far advanced for me.

 

Hi Tigerburnie.

 

Ten years ago I got back into the hobby through building a Superquick kit (for a TV show I was working on). I joined the Leeds MRS club, and saw Alan, Nick, Barry and Mike Edge and others bring in the the wonderful brass kits they were making, I never imagined that I could ever reach that level of modelling.

 

Through their encouragement, and also the encouragement and vast base of knowledge to be found on this forum my modelling has takes leaps forward.

 

I would say start with little things, and just see where it takes you. There might be failures along the way, but you can learn a lot from them as much as the ones that work.

 

Jamie

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some excellent modelling work, inspiring, but I fear too far advanced for me.

It's never to advanced for you-have a go!

When I look back at all the Airfix kits I totally screwed up, it was merely a foundation for what I do today-nothing could be easier than soldering up a whitemetal wagon, and subsequently moving on to etched brass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I am finding building the Comet kits, rather than detailing, or kit bashing something is that all the parts are designed to go together, and so in some ways it is easier than some of the conversions I have done.

Learning to work with brass, white metal and solder is a new experience, you can't just hold a small piece in place and solder as you would with a plastic kit, but then you can solder small details that would be too fine for plastic, and soldering make small details far stronger then other mediums  have encountered.

Sorry no pictures tonight, I will try and post some soon.

Jamie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

post-19381-0-57461500-1506658993_thumb.jpg

 

From badly glued Airfix Shermans to P4-no reason at all not to div in!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great thread Jamie am thoroughly enjoying this....and learning!!

 

Mike

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck with your Caprotti 5 kit. I have one almost complete (in P4). I mounted the Mashima motor almost vertically in the firebox, driving the centre axle via an extended High Level gearbox. It fits nicely and is completely invisible in the assembled model, but one does have to position the motor carefully to make sure the top end doesn't bear against the inside of the firebox casting.

I agree with the comment above about the Comet top feed casting and replaced mine with one out of my spare casting collection. It might be from a Brassmasters Stanier 5, but I can't be sure about that.

I hope you don't mind me posting a couple of photos illustrating these points.

 

post-5663-0-98312600-1506684999_thumb.jpg

 

Showing the main component assemblies, including the motor/gearbox position.

 

post-5663-0-56554300-1506684985_thumb.jpg

 

The assembled loco with the replacement top feed casting.

 

Dave.

Edited by Dave Holt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Dave.

The more photos the better, they are all really helpful for reference. Lovely modelling too.

I am at a point where I can try the motor each way, each has its advantages and disadvantages. I will see how it feels when it goes together. Vertical does not require any cutting away at the underside of the firebox, so that is probably preferable if I can get it to fit.

I have used the Comet gearbox as I got all the parts for the build from Wizard.

I am also chipping my loco so will have to think about where to put the chip, and also retain access to it.

I have yet to look at the parts to detail the boiler, but will bear your and 92220's comments in mind.

No modelling today, I am filming outdoors tonight in deepest Yorkshire, which will be fun! At least the rain has stopped but I suspect it will feel cold and damp. Wellies and big coat.

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback.

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck with your Caprotti 5 kit. I have one almost complete (in P4). I mounted the Mashima motor almost vertically in the firebox, driving the centre axle via an extended High Level gearbox. It fits nicely and is completely invisible in the assembled model, but one does have to position the motor carefully to make sure the top end doesn't bear against the inside of the firebox casting.

I agree with the comment above about the Comet top feed casting and replaced mine with one out of my spare casting collection. It might be from a Brassmasters Stanier 5, but I can't be sure about that.

I hope you don't mind me posting a couple of photos illustrating these points.

 

attachicon.gifCap_Blk5_013.JPG

 

Showing the main component assemblies, including the motor/gearbox position.

 

attachicon.gifCap_Blk5_010.jpg

 

The assembled loco with the replacement top feed casting.

 

Dave.

Hello Dave

A very nice model of the Caprotti 5.  I was interested to read that the motor is driving the centre axle on a P4 locomotive.  Can you post a description of the chassis suspension arrangement, please?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have found my effort and you should recogniuse the layout? Photo from owner of said layout (many thanks). I found that the double chimney didn't quite sit neatly either; might have been me of course. I also cocked up the handrails. The cab looks a bit drunk, however I enjoyed building it and it worked/s.

Supposedly 44756. It should be covered in filth.

post-2326-0-34914400-1506689114_thumb.jpg

Phil

 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....The cab looks a bit drunk....

 

There is a prototype for that. 45212 on the K&WVR had a cab which tilted backwards for many years, carried over from its BR service.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the comments and posts showing other models. I certainly think that building an etched brass and white metal kit is less daunting than it first appears when you get a pile of parts out from a box. Maybe an 0-6-0 engine might be a more sensible start, but I think building something you really want, provided you aren't straight into 10 coupled wheels with a lot of hand made connecting rods, is worthwhile.

Thanks for the tips, I have ordered a better top feed from Ebay, Brassmasters don't sell them separately. I have ordered a few detailing parts from them though, and they do brake hangers and brake gear etches, so I have got a couple of those for the missing one for the Black 5 and also to upgrade my Crosti 9F's brakes.

Thanks for the recommendation for the LMS Profiles Book for the Caprotti Black 5's Iain, I have a copy, but it is really helpful in working out  what bits were on which loco and when. I also have the 'Power of the Black 5's' by Gavin Morrison, which has two pages of photos of 44756, a double chimnied, gorilla armed Caprotti Black 5 based at Holbeck in Leeds, which I have decided will be the loco I am building, in its last set of modifications.

Progress has been a bit slow due to working nights on a film shoot, but here are some photos.

Thanks for the advice about persevering with a vertical motor mount to Dave Holt, yes it does (just) fit, with a little filling on the end of the motor.

Black5_08.jpg

Some filing/cutting was needed to get the gearbox to slot right in, and I also did some cosmetic cutting to remove the big chunk of gearbox side that hung down between the back wheels.

 

Black5_09.jpg

Sitting on top. a bit more filing to tidy it all up.

Black5_10.jpg

 Working alongside the chassis I gave some attention to the body to make sure that it all fits together.

Black5_07.jpg

I found that getting the firebox to have a slope made a slight gap at the back which I didn't think would easily fill solder, so I cut a couple of bits of brass sprue and soldered them to the back of the firebox, and then filed them back.

Black5_06.jpg

I have been working on the firebox and boiler today, and it is starting to look like a steam engine.

Black5_11.jpg

Before fitting the boiler, I drilled out a hole in the front of the firebox, as the boiler might make a good space to put the DCC chip. I did consider maybe a stay alive capacitor in there, but reading about them I suspect they might not be of a lot of use on my electrofrog layout. That said with the tight motor fit, there is no flywheel, so it is an option.

I am also considering fitting the smokebox door using a wine bottle cork, so that it can be removed to access this area. Quite possibly ideas that will be dropped, but the hole is there should I want to feed wiring through.

Building the loco has been much more addictive than I expected, so there has been no progress on the inspection saloon, or the final painting on the station building.

On a completely different topic, my partner discovered that Amazon Prime has free train videos, she was less than impressed, but I watched a nice film of the Midland Region on the 50'sand 60's, worth having a search, they are free if you are a Prime member.

I also have been offered a very interesting modelling project, which is in early discussion, a director I worked with last year likes my model making and has asked me if I would like to build a model spaceship for an upcoming film. It might not be cost effective for me to do it, but an interesting offer which I will explore. There may also be model railways involved in the film, but US, not UK, I may post more about that as the project develops.

Jamie
 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few more bits done on the Caprotti Black 5.

I get the feeling that the model was originally designed to make the batch with the straighter steam pipes, so I used a fine saw to cut a couple of extension pieces out of the spare straight pipes to extend the curved pipes and get more of a 'gorilla arm' look to them.

Black5_12.jpg

Pipe work has been progressing. I added a few extra details using brass wire and also strands of muti-strand electrical wire for the lubricator feeds. I extended the bases for the steam pipes on the boiler, using a bit off offcut white metal.  will need to do more of this to fill and even out where I have moved these up a little to match the batch I am building.

I used the Comet top feed in the end, the one I got from Ebay wasn't the right type, and Brassmasters don't sell theirs separately.

Black5_13.jpg

Black5_14.jpg

 

Black5_15.jpg

I tried drilling out the lubricators to feed the wire in to make it neat, but I broke my drill bit in the white metal, so I gave up and soldered it to the edge as best I could.

If you want to see how well an experienced modeller can do this, have a look at 92220's Motive Power for Camden Shed thread.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65335-motive-power-for-camden-shed/page-16&do=findComment&comment=2892264

 

Black5_16.jpg

It looks messier than it is, I had a light 1 foot away to get the exposure so it shows up every bit of solder - honestly.

Probably lots more to sat, but it is late.

More at the weekend I hope.

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are too kind, Jamie. Not sure my work bears comparison to be honest, and I’m not all that experienced. The first set of Comet frames I built that worked was just under a year ago, and the first completed kit in February. Admittedly, I’d had a go a couple of years ago. You are doing a fine job here and if there are things you’re not happy with, I’m certainly not good enough to advise you! I might be able to share all the ways I’ve found not to do something.

 

Have you got it running freely under power yet? The only thing I’d maybe suggest is that it’s worth building the body around a set of frames that are already free-running, because the frames provide the base for the body to sit on. I found with one of the rtr body-Comet frames combinations that when I screwed the two together, because the fit wasn’t perfect, the body distorted the frames very slightly and turned a smooth runner into a non-runner. So from then on I made it a priority to make the body fit the frames early on.

 

The Caprotti 5s are one of my favourite locos - I guess anyone looking at my thread could see what the rest are too. I look forward to seeing further progress.

 

Many thanks,

 

Iain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Iain.

You are quite right about getting the chassis and with the body attached running, but I haven't yet, which I know I really should do.

I pushed the chassis with the drive wheels attached, but before adding the gearbox and motor, which was when I lost one of the brake hangers. As I only have the option of running off track or getting a DCC chip fitted, I will have to wait. I might solder a battery on and try just the chassis like that.

I did work on the steam pipes a bit more before returning to the chassis. Here is an extension to the base/join tom the boiler being soldered on from a piece of sprue/off cut white metal. It was then filed and sanded into shape.

Black5_17.jpg

Some shot of the body as it currently is on the chassis.

Black5_19.jpg

Here you can see the shape of the extended steam pipes and the join to the boiler. The chimney has been added, and I soldered a piece of metal sprue to the back of the smoke-box door to act as a clip to hold it in place, probably works better than a cork would have done.

Black5_20.jpg

Sorry for the quality of this photo, left to right are the brake hangers, left - the etched Comet one, middle - my filed down one from the same etch sprue, and right - one fudged from the Brasmasters etch, which is not for this type of brake hanger, and was the less successful of the options I think. I think they will be fine when I revisit my Hornby Crosti 9F to improve the brakes.

Black5_21.jpg

Finally some much better lit photo in direct sunlight, with a Hornby tender sat behind to get an idea of how it is looking.

Black5_22.jpg

Black5_23.jpg

Black5_24.jpg

One question, how easy have people found adding glazing to brass locos after painting and fitting the back plate to the boiler? I have left the roof, back plate, crew all off for the moment as I suspect this might be hard to do?

Jamie

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.