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Jamiel

Ellerby - 4mm, buildings, rolling stock, scratch & kit building.

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Painting the frames is something I dread too but take your time with a 00 brush and a handful of cocktail sticks for mistakes and it's not that bad. Think yourself lucky mate; I've discovered that white paint was pretty rare in the early 60's and as such, almost all my buildings need the window frames painting (and many are made from 10 thou Microstrip) in, from what I have gleaned at Railex  from chatting to the St Merryn chaps, brown, beige or green paint. I think I'll put it off for a while longer yet :D

Edited by Sandside

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Thanks Sandside.

 

I woke up early and got on with the painting yesterday, it wasn't as bad as I had expected. I wish I had sen your post about cocktail sticks to mop up, but thankfully I had very little spill over the edges. What there was did scrape off with the end of a scalpel.

 

Windows10.jpg

 

Less successful was my first use of acrylic paint on the door. I have gone out and bought some faded red Humbrol enamel to go over this later.

Windows11.jpg

 

After a dusting with grey on the large windows, they are seen in place on the building. I also dusted the building from the front, and the windows from the back. I thought I had overdone it slightly, but am happy with the dirty look now. A bit more glasing was done on the remaining windows as well.

Windows12.jpg

 

I have also stated work on the two end windows, and will continue with the end later, if I get the chance.

 

Windows13.jpg

 

Thanks for all the feedback, likes and ticks. I hope to keep more coming on the goods warehouse and layout soon.

Jamie

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Guest jonte

Hi Jamie

 

Really enjoying the thread and watching your progress. 

 

I'm also a fan of Warwickshire Railways site,especially New Street, and your masterful work certainly does those grimy background buildings justice (that's a compliment btw  :smile_mini2:)

 

I know what you mean about the doors. I'm not a big fan of acrylics myself - although it's probably just me as there are plenty of great examples here, either partially or wholly, achieved with acrylics - preferring to stick with what I'm used to i.e. enamels.

 

Without interfering, or trying to teach my granny.......... , I achieved a well worn look- if that's what you're after - by undercoating in a mid to dark grey enamel, then overcoating in a colour of choice (again enamel) thinned with copious amounts of thinners: more thinners than paint is what you're after. It tends to pool and doesn't cover very well, but that's the trick. When dry, apply a second of the same mix - even a third if you wish - they're your doors after all!!! What you're left with is a worn paint/flaking paint look that looks like it hasn't seen a fresh coat of paint in donkey's years. It'll appear thicker in places and totally devoid of paint in others without leaving a line between the two. I think it looks okay, but one man's meat is another's poison, as they say, so I'll leave it your discretion.

 

I've taken the liberty of attaching a couple of photos from the buildings in my blog to give you an idea. Hope you don't me hijacking your brilliant thread and carry on the good work.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jonte

 

post-4524-0-25942500-1369938293_thumb.jpgpost-4524-0-71757000-1369938320_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Jonte.

 

You certainly are not hijacking the thread, your buildings are fantastic, and an inspiration to all modellers, and that is what being part of a forum is all about.

 

Thank you for the door painting technique too. I would like my building to be a little less worn than your example, but not much, so I will give your method a try.

 

Looking at your blog, the weathering on the roofs is brilliant, I have quickly read it, but will take some time and go though it in some detail. I do like how you have got an overall colour scheme, or perhaps wash to bring you buildings together.

I am always happy to receive advice from fellow modellers. This is the first windowed/glazed and tiled roof building I have made, so there is some trial and error in there, a few happy accidents, and a few train wrecks, so I am keen to learn from others.

Jamie

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Guest jonte

Thanks for endorsing my blog, Jamie.

 

Jonte

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Guest jonte

Most kind, Jamie, thank you.

 

The rooves and other bits were built up in exactly the same way: thin washes built up over a grey undercoat. You can do some final dressing using dry brushing or more dirty thin washes or weathering powders - or all of them in some cases. Maskol also helps to achieve a flaking paint effect and can be seen around the bottom edges of the doors. I think the secret here is not to overdo it and shall put it into practice next time!

 

You'd never tell btw that these were your first attempts at this sort of thing. They really are top drawer and not easy to achieve; despite the guidance of others. Well done.

 

Mine are just card kit bashes so most of the hard work has already been done, however, I fully intend to give your techniques a bash some time soon as I think they're absolutely stunning, so I shall follow closely your instructions. Not sure whether I'll achieve the same excellent results, but as you say, and I wholly agree, it's mostly a case of trial and error and in my case: plenty of happy accidents.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jonte

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your scratch building skills are fantastic.i love how the station building turned out, very realistic.

 

terry

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I've just discovered this thread. Wonderful buildings, especially the water tower. Keep up the good work.

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Guest jonte

92220, Castle and JCL:

 

Thanks guys for your very kind endorsements. (Thanks also JCL for leaving a generous comment on my blog!). I'm not worthy: all I've done is smudge the sides of a very good, but very cheap, card kit with weathering powder and got very lucky when messing about with some old tins of paint.

 

I think the real test of our abilities is when it comes to scratchbuilding with card and embossed brick work like Jamiel. One day I'll summon the courage!!!!

 

But thanks anyway.

 

Jonte

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Hi Jonte.

It is worth giving a try to scratch building, it is actually much easier than you might think. The most difficult thing is getting the right glues for different materials.

I was surprised to discover that Mek will glue small pieces of plastic to brass etches, Evostick will glue just about anything to anything else but you have to watch for stringy bits, and Evostick solvent free adhesive is great for gluing plastic to wood, but does leave a layer like rubber which can be a nuisance, but can also be rubbed off with your finger.

 

A plus is that they are strong, once you have bent the bits to shape they stay like that, and you can repaint if things go wrong.

 

I do think that although you started with a card kit for your station buildings, you have made them much more, and you sense of colour, texture, detail and finish are quite superb, they have a real sense of age, and solidity, and a feeling that gravity and the elements effects have been very well represented.

Jamie

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Thanks for your support and advice, Jamie. And further compliments!!!!!!

 

I have to admit that the right adhesives for the job do prove a barrier to my progress along scratchbuilding lines. I'd hate to find that all that time and effort was wasted after a building began to warp or - worse still- dissolve after a couple of weeks or so due to a mismatch of materials and solvents. And yes, if it's gonna happen, it'll happen to me!

 

So that's a great help, Jamie. Thank you.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jonte.

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Just a little progress on the goods building this last week.

 

A photo to show the off-cuts of wood and plastic to secure the windows in place, but not quite soon enough to stop the glazing falling off one of the big ground floor windows that were scratch built.

 

I have also sectioned off one room so that I can have one lit window, and possibly an interior. That is why the back has the section cut out, as this will be accessible below the street level, one advantage of a valley station.

Goods29.jpg

 

The detail on the end walls for the roof gables.

 

Goods28.jpg

 

The right end was not vertical on my model, so some bits of wood and plastic padding added before the brick work to even it out. There might be a hint of the Slaters brick sheet 'slew', but I suspect that my model is not accurate enough to worry about. That said buildings of that age were often less than square in the corners, from my experience.

 

Goods30.jpg

 

The right hand gable in progress. The bricks only come that far down, as at that end the ground level is that high.

 

Goods31.jpg

 

As a complete change of media, from making this building I ended up with the source material for a couple of CD covers I am working on for a bootleg group I have been involved with for a number of years. The band are OK about it, in case you are concerned. Still in progress but here are a couple of front covers.

omt034Fr2.jpg

omt034Fr3.jpg

If anyone is interested, I have a page of CD artworks, including some desktop backgrounds at: http://www.jamielochhead.co.uk/browse1.htm

I'll post more soon, and maybe even work on some railway desktop backgrounds (I did do an A4 one for my uncle last week).

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
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nice bit of graphics there - reminds me of uni, somehow... :)

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I have now attached the goods warehouse to the section of retaining wall and added a section of the ground base (ply wood, planed to give it some contour). Here sitting in situ.

 

Before things can be set more solidly in position, I need to redo this section of track. Of the three points and double slip in the first image, two points (at least) and the slip need to be made from C & L kits, to remove the unrealistic straightening and also as I want to remove the facing crossing to allow access from all platforms to the up main line. Unfortunately that is something I can't afford for a little while, so the work on the buildings will continue, but as sections that will have to be screwed down one I have had the opportunity to redo that section of track. Not a problem as I have a signal box to make after the good building.

 

Goods32.jpg

 

A couple of closer shots of the the buttress I have made and the join to the good building.

Goods33.jpg

Goods34.jpg

 

A view along the platform, which shows the angled bricks at the edge on the buttress. I like this view, even though much is not painted, or the platform added, it does seem to give the whole assembly a sense of weight.

 

Goods35.jpg

 

In progress, but around the other side of the wall and buttress showing the shapes of the brickwork, and also a patch under the wall seen to the left.

 

Goods36.jpg

 

I did start a thread for feedback on the signal box at: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72780-sunderland-station-signal-box/

 

I have also got some Slaters 4mm and 7mm paving slabs, which I will mix, together odd patches of tarmac where building work has been done. It will be interesting to see how far I can go with different sections of paving to be realistic, not too regular, but also not be too over-detailed.

 

Here is a great shot, but probably something to use for reference, but too much detail and variation to actually reproduce, but still interesting (Birmingham New Street from the Warwickshire Railways website).
lnwrbns_str1840.jpg

 

As always advice, experience, and comments are always welcome, and thanks for the compliments, but I am really finding my way and help and advice is appreciated.

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
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These building look great!!!

 

Would you mind to elaborate on how you paint the bricks, i hope to scratchbuild soon, but am worried about the finish

Edited by 66702GBRf

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Hi 66702GBRf

 

I went into it a little in post 9 , and post 33, but here is some more detail about the method I used, I have lifted a little of what follows from those posts, but have elaborated a little more.

 

Firstly, if you are going to try scratch building I can recommend  Geoff Taylor's 'Building Model Building in 4mm and 7mm' enough.(GTetches - website or Google search, or most rail book sellers). There is a follow up book, but the first book has a great section on starting building and goes through making a set of terraced houses, and how to paint them. See post 54.

 

I use the method of painting he details in that book, with a little variation, and also I use thin ply for shell of the model, rather than thick plasticard. Maybe a little over the top, but it does make for very strong buildings.

 

All paints Humbrol enamels. Apart from where mentioned all the painting is done with brushes, long wide for the coats (6-10mm flat brush), and short flat brushes for the dry brushing (4mm). Brush strokes are always in the direction of gravity where possible, or across the top of the tunnels.

 

The brickwork is red Slaters plastic card brick, painted with an inital coat of Brick Red (Matt 70 enamel) and left 24 hours to dry, this give a basic red brick coat to work with.

 

For the mortar a day later Stone (Matt 121) painted on and wiped off about a minute later with a kitchen towel. Don't thin this layer, I find it works better if you often stir the paint to keep it thick. Leaving it a minute allows it to run into the recess of the brick card, but you must not let it set. The goods building is at this stage on some areas, I did this so that there was a basic coat in before I set in the windows and glazing in particular. Don't worry that this has lightened the bricks, the following will darken them.

 

Again leave for a day (you can't rush this, I tried and it all just turns messy and you have to start again).

 

I then dry brushed the Brick Red Matt 70 mixed with Chocolate Matt 98 about 50/50, but varying the mix a bit on scrap card. Not too much variation, but if you put the two dollops of paint on there, and then run them together before each bit of painting the model it will give some natural variation.

 

With dry brushing, you put a little paint on a flat brush, then paint that on to a bit of card, until it is almost dry and just giving a slight bit of paint on the card, only then take the brush to the model. You can refresh the brush from the strokes you have painted on the card, and only occasionally from the paint dollops, so that it stays thin and dryish.

 

If it is too wet and too much paint on the brush it will fill the mortar courses, and you will have to repeat the previous bit. Don't worry you will get the hang of this quickly.

At this stage you can also get a very thin brush, and pick out some individual bricks in the Chocolate 98, or an orange, or leather, or a mix of these, They will get worked back by the following layers.

 

This is where I often add a layer not in Geoff's book, I often found this gave the mortar too much contrast, so I lightly airbrushed it all with a coat of the Brick Red Matt 70 to even out the brick colour. I am not sure if I will do this on the glazed building though, probably just a little, as it will add to the dusting on the windows just a bit.

 

(following quoted section from post 33)

 

"Now various colours were dry brushed on, Oxford Blue Matt 104 (or a very dark matt blue) gives some nice brick edge detail. Blue works much better than black, black is just too much for an overall dry brush. Matt 62 Leather does the opposite to the blue, if it gets too dark, or to make some patches.

 

For streak detail Black and blue were dry brushed in downward streaks, particularly in the tunnel. I made downward patches of Humbrol Plastic filler to create heavy lime deposits, painted white, then toned down a little with black, chocolate and brick red.

 

Gun Metal 53 (not matt that one) was also dry brushed on to some bits of brick, and on details to give that oily look.

 

You can also thin down the Matt Stone 121 to a very runny mix, and dab a spot at the edge of the brick work and allow capillary action to take it into the mortar course, which gives some nice variation.

 

Sometimes being bold with streaks is good, and you can always go back if it goes wrong. Try and follow the lines of the gravity of the walls, or sometimes the water flow if that is different.

 

The darkening of the soot at the tunnel entrance was just an airbrush of matt black, I thought it too strong at first, but then brought the other tunnel to that level, and was happy with it. Sometimes accidents work out better than what was planned.

 

I do sound like an advert for Geoff Taylor's books, but basically my modelling of buildings etc. is all based on that, and a few variations (using thin wood ply rather than plasticard for some of the base structure, the airbrush pass), it is worth getting the above book, and the follow up, each is only the cost of half a dozen Humbrol small pots, and will inspire you so much. I also got a book 'The Art of Weathering'."

If you are making brickwork for a different part of the country, you may need a different set of colours though, London bricks are usually yellow, perhaps ask on the Camden Shed thread. Stonework is different again.

One thing I would say is don't use colours that are too different in the same are, I am dusting with the airbrush a mix of brick red Matt 70 and Chocolate Matt 98 to keep everything within a general colour scheme. This is easier with the period I have chosen, a modern image model would have more garish and disparate colour together, but the grit, smoke and dust would still add a general coat to slightly bring it together.

One good thing about painting with enamels on plastic brick card is that can keep working on to it, and go back to step one if it goes wrong.

It does take several days of painting to get this look though, so you do have to be patient.

I now have to rework this method by 90 degrees and into greys and probably some greens to do the platforms. Time to read the Lincoln Central thread for the amazing platform painting.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
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Hi 66702GBRf

 

I went into it a little in post 9 , and post 33, but here is some more detail about the method I used, I have lifted a little of what follows from those posts, but have elaborated a little more.

 

Firstly, if you are going to try scratch building I can recommend Geoff Taylor's 'Building Model Building in 4mm and 7mm' enough.(GTetches - website or Google search, or most rail book sellers). There is a follow up book, but the first book has a great section on starting building and goes through making a set of terraced houses, and how to paint them. See post 54.

 

I use the method of painting he details in that book, with a little variation, and also I use thin ply for shell of the model, rather than thick plasticard. Maybe a little over the top, but it does make for very strong buildings.

 

All paints Humbrol enamels. Apart from where mentioned all the painting is done with brushes, long wide for the coats (6-10mm flat brush), and short flat brushes for the dry brushing (4mm). Brush strokes are always in the direction of gravity where possible, or across the top of the tunnels.

 

The brickwork is red Slaters plastic card brick, painted with an inital coat of Brick Red (Matt 70 enamel) and left 24 hours to dry, this give a basic red brick coat to work with.

 

For the mortar a day later Stone (Matt 121) painted on and wiped off about a minute later with a kitchen towel. Don't thin this layer, I find it works better if you often stir the paint to keep it thick. Leaving it a minute allows it to run into the recess of the brick card, but you must not let it set. The goods building is at this stage on some areas, I did this so that there was a basic coat in before I set in the windows and glazing in particular. Don't worry that this has lightened the bricks, the following will darken them.

 

Again leave for a day (you can't rush this, I tried and it all just turns messy and you have to start again).

 

I then dry brushed the Brick Red Matt 70 mixed with Chocolate Matt 98 about 50/50, but varying the mix a bit on scrap card. Not too much variation, but if you put the two dollops of paint on there, and then run them together before each bit of painting the model it will give some natural variation.

 

With dry brushing, you put a little paint on a flat brush, then paint that on to a bit of card, until it is almost dry and just giving a slight bit of paint on the card, only then take the brush to the model. You can refresh the brush from the strokes you have painted on the card, and only occasionally from the paint dollops, so that it stays thin and dryish.

 

If it is too wet and too much paint on the brush it will fill the mortar courses, and you will have to repeat the previous bit. Don't worry you will get the hang of this quickly.

At this stage you can also get a very thin brush, and pick out some individual bricks in the Chocolate 98, or an orange, or leather, or a mix of these, They will get worked back by the following layers.

 

This is where I often add a layer not in Geoff's book, I often found this gave the mortar too much contrast, so I lightly airbrushed it all with a coat of the Brick Red Matt 70 to even out the brick colour. I am not sure if I will do this on the glazed building though, probably just a little, as it will add to the dusting on the windows just a bit.

 

(following quoted section from post 33)

 

"Now various colours were dry brushed on, Oxford Blue Matt 104 (or a very dark matt blue) gives some nice brick edge detail. Blue works much better than black, black is just too much for an overall dry brush. Matt 62 Leather does the opposite to the blue, if it gets too dark, or to make some patches.

 

For streak detail Black and blue were dry brushed in downward streaks, particularly in the tunnel. I made downward patches of Humbrol Plastic filler to create heavy lime deposits, painted white, then toned down a little with black, chocolate and brick red.

 

Gun Metal 53 (not matt that one) was also dry brushed on to some bits of brick, and on details to give that oily look.

 

You can also thin down the Matt Stone 121 to a very runny mix, and dab a spot at the edge of the brick work and allow capillary action to take it into the mortar course, which gives some nice variation.

 

Sometimes being bold with streaks is good, and you can always go back if it goes wrong. Try and follow the lines of the gravity of the walls, or sometimes the water flow if that is different.

 

The darkening of the soot at the tunnel entrance was just an airbrush of matt black, I thought it too strong at first, but then brought the other tunnel to that level, and was happy with it. Sometimes accidents work out better than what was planned.

 

I do sound like an advert for Geoff Taylor's books, but basically my modelling of buildings etc. is all based on that, and a few variations (using thin wood ply rather than plasticard for some of the base structure, the airbrush pass), it is worth getting the above book, and the follow up, each is only the cost of half a dozen Humbrol small pots, and will inspire you so much. I also got a book 'The Art of Weathering'."

 

If you are making brickwork for a different part of the country, you may need a different set of colours though, London bricks are usually yellow, perhaps ask on the Camden Shed thread. Stonework is different again.

 

One thing I would say is don't use colours that are too different in the same are, I am dusting with the airbrush a mix of brick red Matt 70 and Chocolate Matt 98 to keep everything within a general colour scheme. This is easier with the period I have chosen, a modern image model would have more garish and disparate colour together, but the grit, smoke and dust would still add a general coat to slightly bring it together.

One good thing about painting with enamels on plastic brick card is that can keep working on to it, and go back to step one if it goes wrong.

It does take several days of painting to get this look though, so you do have to be patient.

 

I now have to rework this method by 90 degrees and into greys and probably some greens to do the platforms. Time to read the Lincoln Central thread for the amazing platform painting.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Jamie

That helps heaps!!! Thanks a lot!!! I will do a quick google search and try and get my hands on that book.

 

Thanks again

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Good luck with the scratch building, it is actually easier than it looks, and you can always go back and re-do things if it doesn't work, and as you have the raw materials, unlike a kit if you mess a part, you can always go back and make another.

Here is a quick list of the things I would recommend you have, or build up as you go.
Scalpel
Stanley Knife
(spare blades for both the above, so you can quickly put fresh ones on)
Steel ruler
Set square.
Cutting mat (soft plastic one from an art or modelling shop)
Dremmell, or similar small power multi-tool
Basic tools, drill, pliers, wire cutter, etc.
Fine files, and also a couple of big ones.
A few paint brushes, and some white spirit to wash them with.

Various glues.
Mek-Pak for plastic to plastic, and an old paint brush to add it with - don't worry if it sets at the end of a session, if you hold it in the Mek, it will soften again at the start of the next session.
Evo-stick - sticks anything, but is stringy.
Evo-stick adhesive free - if you need to stick wood to plastic.
Super glue - not as good as it claims, but does work on small items.
Wood glue.

An airbrush with compressor is nice of you can afford it, but you can get away without it.
Paints and thinners.

I also recommend making good plans, or getting some from the web, books, etc. so you know where you are going. That said, my buildings have had some big reworking half way through, the side of the water tower, and the slope on the roof of the good building, but still best to have a good idea where you are going at the start.

 

You do also need a bit of time and patience.

 

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel

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Hi Jamie, just followed your link on ET to your layout thread.  Very impressive indeed!  

 

Some great buildings and I'll probably be back soon to tap your brains on retaining walls.  They look very good indeed and the cabling inside your tunnels is a great touch.

 

Thanks for posting updates on your layout build.  Certainly another one for my watch list!....

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I hope that I am not putting up too many similar updates, but just a bit of progress with back and chimneys.

 

The main part of the chimney is from offcuts of the 9mm ply I used for the layout baseboard. Glued to the two bits rising from the back, so it is anchored into the main body of the building, and hopefully won't knock off easily (or at all). Padded around the lower half with off cuts of the thin ply, and starting to be covered by brick card. I did file back into the 9mm ply to get the top half to sit back evenly on all sides.

 

Goods37.jpg

 

It might not look like it, but I did tidy my work bench this morning. I couldn't get the building on there unless it was balanced on one thing or another.

 

Goods38.jpg

 

A look at the back which has been detailed a bit now, and also the lower part of the chimneys covered with bricks (plus my cat sitting outside looking for a fight no doubt). You can also see where I caught the bricks with the Dremmell when shaping a recess to fit the path base to the back, hopefully will be covered by the path, failing that, I could add some detail or a plant.

 

Goods39.jpg

 

So, a little more work on the chimney stacks, and also around the base at the far end, some detail on the front, and I think I will be ready to start painting more of the brickwork. I am tempted to start the edge of the platform before some of that painting though. Drain pipes will be added after the painting, otherwise the brush strokes around them will look a bit false.

 

Starting to think about the signal box to go opposite this building, and the bridges just next to it.

I would like to get the track built to go on this section, but it is a cost I can't cover right now. I also saw a Bachmann Midland Pullman in the flesh for the first time this week, and since they are starting to disappear from the shops, I might have to bump that ahead of things. I have two jobs penciled in, but both are on hold, hopefully if they go ahead I can treat my self to the Pullman and the track.

Jamie

Edited by Jamiel
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Looking nice there Jamie. I'm waiting for a couple of jobs to come in too!

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Guest jonte

Hi Jamie.

 

Magnifico! Really looking the part.

 

I love that b&w shot of New Street too.

 

As for the track improvements: you're a real glutton for punishment  :D  Respectfully, common sense would dictate that as this is your first 'proper' attempt at layout building, just learn to live with it and move on otherwise it'll never be finished. Believe you me. But as one without common sense, I can empathise! Buildings that good warrant track of equal measure and I would also be tempted to lift and replace with better looking track. Still, I think you're perilously close to treading that well worn path of tampering with a little bit here and a little more there, changing this for that, then before you know it, it's: s*d it! Let's scrap it all  and start again with C&L, Exactoscale, handbuilt stuff using Templot or whatever, followed by: well if I'm building the stuff, why don't I consider a finer standard and make it more realistic? How about OO-SF - apparently, I can use RTR and don't need to alter the wheels - or 'OO' to DOGA Fine standards? But then, if I'm going to have to purchase new wheel sets for the DOGA stuff, why not go the whole hog and widen the gauge and opt for 'EM' of even 'P4' (Mmmm...nice!). But then there's compensation and all that mularkey to consider - and so it goes. Great for the experienced amongst us, but, well........................... See wot i mean? If you're anything like me, you'll just wrap yourself up in knots.

 

Take my advice as a fellow novice, Jamie, and stick with it. Use your excellent weathering skills to improve the look of the Peco stuff and move on. As long as your stock runs over it without complaining, you've done a good job. After all, you're creating an overall picture, and the odd shortfalls here and there will soon be forgiven once your pending Pullman is doing the rounds, and admirably completes the picture.

 

There's every possibility, of course, that you'd make a good job of handbuilt track first time out and who knows, you might get everything working smoothly first time. However, as you intend to attempt complicated track sections as an introduction to track building, exacerbated by being radiused to boot, well. " If I was a betting man," as they say............

 

I'll keep tuning in, whatever you decide, Jamie, but if only for my sake please finish it. I think it looks great the way it is.

 

Good luck,

 

Jonte

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Let's scrap it all  and start again with C&L, Exactoscale, handbuilt stuff using Templot or whatever, followed by: well if I'm building the stuff, why don't I consider a finer standard and make it more realistic? How about 00-SF - apparently, I can use RTR and don't need to alter the wheels

 

No need to scrap it all and start again. Track built to 00-SF can be mixed with Peco on the same layout and requires no changes to your rolling stock.

 

DOGA Fine (as C&L gauges) does mean scrap it all and start again. In which case you may just as well go to EM or P4.

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Well said Jonte!

When I first started my layout 2 years ago, I'd never heard of EM, P4 let alone C&L SMP etc... I had a decent 3 track layout which was running fine, and now, thanks to RMWeb, and to be fair just about every other layout idea to be found, I've pulled up what I'd done in the hope of making something better. 

I think I've now decided on compromise. To satisfy my children, for whom I started this thing in the first place, (but then my modelling eye took over) I'm going to revert to a roundy roundy layout with a through station, but model it up to the best standard I can. I just now need a spare 5 weeks to get the track laid again and wired back up so they can run some trains!

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I thought that C&L kits/track could be built to OO, EM, P4, just depending on how far you set your track gauge to?

 

I am sure I measured the depth on a C&L kit, and found that it came to the same height as Peco Code 75, less sleeper, but more or less the same track height, and better chairs that lift the track a little clear of the sleepers. I will re-check, but can always add something below the track to raise it to the level of the Peco if needed.

 

I know what you mean about 'making do' Jonte, but the three points just in front of the goods building are a pain. The current Peco track does have a too sharp curve into one end to fit the straight points in, and this does cause the occasional derailment, it also needs to be re-laid as the facing point causes several negatives.

 

Most importantly, it stops trains exiting the bay platform to the main line, which would make operation a lot more flexible, and satisfying. Secondly if would force the down main line signals too close to the tunnel, swapping swapping the facing point to a trailing one doubles the distance between tunnel and signals. Thirdly if I made kit track it would allow for a continuous curve that should (provided it ends up OK) allow the stock to run more freely, without the kinks forced by the straight points.

 

Curved Peco points have much too tighter curve to use those.

 

There will be a difference in the profile of the track which might be seen where they join, but that I can live with.

 

It would only be the three, maybe a couple next to those it it goes well, that would be replaced with kit points. The remainder of the layout will remain Peco Code 75, and I have found that with spacing out the sleepers on the flexible sections, and also the Das + normal ballast method, with plenty of weathering of the track, makes quite an improvement to the look of Peco track. There are a couple more points to add at the back of the goods loop as well at some point.

 

Much of this came to light when I started to work out the signalling for the layout, which is an interesting point in the learning process. I thought that I had pretty much worked out how the stock would move, but when signalling it showed up a couple of problems, so if designing another layout, I would design the track, then work out the signalling before laying the track.

 

It is definitely a long term project, but one thing I am trying to do, is get two metre sections relatively finished, then move on to the next. The water tower/coaler doesn't fit this, but the rest that I have worked on is all for the section between the North end double tunnel mouth, and the bridge with the station building on it. The next section will be the station building and loco sheds, and onwards towards the South end of the station.

 

I do appreciate all the comments and advice. Some may offer different opinions, and some things might not be what I wish to do, but it is all very informative, and even if I don't act on some things, those probably wiser than me, might take heed. Sometimes it just takes a while for things to sink in, I was advised to put the supply track in the middle of the coaler, but I kept it at the side until I looked how it would fit the track and operation, and only then had to cut off the side and detail it (one the first page of this thread).

 

So thanks again to everyone, and please feel free to add any thoughts.

 

Jamie

 

PS. Just having a break from filling in my sixth application to become a lecturer in Visual Effects, or Film/Television Production, so hopefully something will change on that front, plus two freelance jobs waiting for the go ahead, still keeping an eye on the available Midland Pullmans.

Edited by Jamiel
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