Charlie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 ? Great seeing ex GC locos but I wish they would deliver the outstanding announced items ...... Why do people keep repeating this when it has been pointed out numerous times that Bachmann's catalogue covers eighteen months? That means that there is another 6 months for the last of the 2011/2012 catalogue to come out, barring major problems, and as seen by the Model rail pictures it would appear the 'C' Class now has an engineering sample and the Midland pullman is now down the paint shop leaving only the dukedog at an unknown stage in the tool room as stated in the collectors clb magazine. For myself, a fair spread. Glad to see a new tooled 101, hopefully not long before an NSE example comes out, and the J11 will be a welcome addition. One thing I did notice though, no mention of an LNER liveried D11/2. Missing option maybe or one for the future? Curious when one considers that all the others have a pre-nationalisation scheme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluex5 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Both the D11 and J11 are beautiful prototypes. I might yet buy them just for the hell of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfield_Park Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Definately a thumbs up for the 101. Will be interesting to see which bodyshell variants they go for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted March 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2012 quote "Why do people keep repeating this when it has been pointed out numerous times that Bachmann's catalogue covers eighteen months? " well the Stanier coaches are now due Oct/Nov - over eighteen months and the CovHops now have no release date at all.... and neither have yet to appear as an "engineering sample" (so what happened to the 3F tender if they had an "engineering sample"? Why is the underfarme so wrong?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrobuscp Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think the Bachmann 4mm program is an excellent mix. There are a few items that do not particularly interest me but, unless you're into "modern image", a wide variety of interests have been covered. Almost all of the loco kits I've built or bought to build, will have been produced rtr when the announced 2012 releases arrive. On that basis the Adams Radial tank is to be expected shortly and the Claughton a little later!!. All in all, I'm sure I'll be buying a few of the new releases and I'm pleased that Bachmann seem to be listening to their customers. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Anybody else noticed that the LMS Twins have disappeared from the Modern Image Locos Product List on Bachmann's website? Just a mistake?? They are in the Steam section not modern image. Their partner on this, Rails of Sheffield, have not indicated it has been cancelled and as at December 2011 they were comparing their version with the Hattons/Dapol in a very bullish manner. The models were quite advanced and appeared in pre-production on a number of occasions last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I addition to above . In these crap times we are living in, how many people how many can afford to buy a kit plus wheels motors etc etc?. You will not get anything for £85.00 that Bachmann will sell the L&Y thats for sure. Chances are it wont turn out nowhere as good either Talking the moral high ground about people not wanting to make kits is not in a lot of cases true. They simply cannot afford the outlay on any high level kit which hopefully may work when built or may not or just sit in a drawer forgotten or ebayed at a loss when they give up or need the money for something else far more important to that person at that time. RTR is still a fairly cheap way into our hobby and without this hobby would be the niche for the wealthy/well off only. Not only that we are getting on the whole superb looking and running products , for which I for one are extremely grateful. Well done to all the manafactuers !! A simple way of selling kits is to reduce the profit margins . I have no idea what that margin maybe , but we are in hard times for virtually everybody. Mick, the overall volume of kit sales are usually too low to permit much reduction without requiring a very large increase in sales volume to make up for it. If your £85 marker price for a kit was reduced to £60, it would then be probably be selling at a loss, but how many more would you buy? It is notable that this discussion only happens in the 4mm market, where the pricing is driven by the competition between Hornby and Bachmann, as well as the major online and mail order retailers. In the 7mm market, kits generally provide the least expensive way to produce a model, despite having a much higher unit price than 4mm kits. Reading some of the comments in some of the new Bachmann threads, it would appear that some people are intending to buy quite a few of the new models planned, probably spending far more money in a year than I would on kits and the associated items. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Whilst a decent Class 101 will I am sure be well received I would have prefered to see a Class 116 or Class 120 DMU ahead of the Class 101. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 well the Stanier coaches are now due Oct/Nov - over eighteen months and the CovHops now have no release date at all.... and neither have yet to appear as an "engineering sample" Barry, it's hardly an exact timetable, is it. Bachmann are juggling many balls in the air at any one time, and the nature of the various potential reasons for delays have been covered here many times. (so what happened to the 3F tender if they had an "engineering sample"? Why is the underfarme so wrong?) Is it really 'so wrong', or is it just compromised and a tad one-dimensional? Somebody presumably made a judgment on it, it might not have been your judgment (or mine for that matter), but it's still a cracking model for the money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37079 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Firstly, I'll say Bachmann are to be congratulated on a really ambitious programme, particularly with some inspired choices of steam locos. However, the choice of new steam-era wagon/NPCS toolings is, I feel, a little disappointing as not only does it not really add anything to what is already available, it really looks like they have gone after Parkside, especially if the LNER fish van turns out to be the 12ft wb version. I doubt this is deliberate per se, but it should still be worrying if it were to cause Parkside to think again about releasing more stuff in 00. Particularly galling are: - the selection of the LMS short brake vans for which very good Parkside kits are available, when there is a gap for an up-to-date Stanier van to replace the (admittedly very good for it's time) ex-Airfix tooling (and could a Stanier 'reverse' van have used the same chassis?). - assuming the LNER fish van is the 12ft wb version, the second BR diagram which has never been available RTR or kit would have offered more livery variations, and more genuine options, than what is already available. The SR vans have been in the Parkside range a bit longer and are probably fairer game, here's hoping they do different versions to the kits. I hope this doesn't sound too negative - I am generally a big fan of Bachmann - but I have in the back of my mind the 'lost' Chivers Stove R that was stopped when the Hornby mag version was announced, and look how that played out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 ..., it really looks like they have gone after Parkside, especially if the LNER fish van turns out to be the 12ft wb version. I doubt this is deliberate per se, but it should still be worrying if it were to cause Parkside to think again about releasing more stuff in 00. A common concern but I doubt the Kirkcaldy boys are unduly worried. This is very much the name of their game now, and they'll surely have had their money back on the tooling. 4mm wagon kits are a steady earner given the way that folk ferret them away, and the more astute kit manufacturers wont abandon this market, they will still be identifying prototypes that are off the big boys' radars - Cambrian are an excellent example of this IMO. - the selection of the LMS short brake vans for which very good Parkside kits are available, when there is a gap for an up-to-date Stanier van to replace the (admittedly very good for it's time) ex-Airfix tooling (and could a Stanier 'reverse' van have used the same chassis?). It is interesting that they've not gone for the late Stanier, I'm quite sure there'll be a reason though (even if it's something as banale as the possibility of Hornby doing a 'back catalogue' job). - assuming the LNER fish van is the 12ft wb version, the second BR diagram which has never been available RTR or kit would have offered more livery variations, and more genuine options, than what is already available. Possibly a bit of confusion here - the plywood 'Blue Spot' (sic) is a 15ft wheelbase vehicle, the earlier dia 134 is the 12ft (which Parkside also do). That said, I'm not sure which it is they're planning, I'd initially thought they'd do an even earlier one to fit the existing 10ft chassis but I'm not sure if those ones were 12T rated The SR vans have been in the Parkside range a bit longer and are probably fairer game, here's hoping they do different versions to the kits. Well there are a lot to go at. I hope this doesn't sound too negative - I am generally a big fan of Bachmann - but I have in the back of my mind the 'lost' Chivers Stove R that was stopped when the Hornby mag version was announced, and look how that played out... [choosing my words verrrry carefully here] if any Bachmann wagon ever turns out like the Stove R, I might be looking for another hobby... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Mick, the overall volume of kit sales are usually too low to permit much reduction without requiring a very large increase in sales volume to make up for it. If your £85 marker price for a kit was reduced to £60, it would then be probably be selling at a loss, but how many more would you buy? It is notable that this discussion only happens in the 4mm market, where the pricing is driven by the competition between Hornby and Bachmann, as well as the major online and mail order retailers. In the 7mm market, kits generally provide the least expensive way to produce a model, despite having a much higher unit price than 4mm kits. Reading some of the comments in some of the new Bachmann threads, it would appear that some people are intending to buy quite a few of the new models planned, probably spending far more money in a year than I would on kits and the associated items. Jol Jol I agree re your point re pricing, very hard times for kit makers. Sadly being realistic RTR is taking over simply because of the current quality , price and types available. e.g how may kits of A2, A3 and A4's are now bought . They are simply not viable to most people, to consider buying in comparison to the RTR versions. I have/had kit versions and they were not even close to the quality of the RTR versions. In the short term I cannot seeing it changing unless RTR suffers from huge price hikes at which point it would probably die from lack of support. Regarding 7mm, this is a rich/well off mans game, how many can afford between £300 and £500 or more for one Loco I know I couldnt or evn think of spending that much for a Loco . It hasnt been popular RTR scale since the 1950's when 4mm took over and I cant see that changing in the short or even long term. How many people living in modern house have space for a 4mm layout let alone 7mm. There is simply not enough demand to affect prices or any big boy competition either. cheers Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 On the train set page: 20-2012 Class 7F 2-8-0 88 SDJR Blue (150th Commemorative) £156.00 I see incidentally that the 7F and the Jinty - or should I say Bagnall? - will be appearing in S&D blue. Are there any more details on these yet? ... something to look forward to as Bachmann rolls out more information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 40 Something said; "I may be in the minority but I still build parkside kits even when rtr versions are available" Good on you for it Joe. I still have a couple of PMVs to build and the onset of what will undeniably be a delightful model isn't going to stop me building them! Dave. Ask anyone up my club Dave, Im a wagon kit fiend!!! I know Bachmann et al will make better models than my efforts will, but I've built them. But it is great that Bachmann are pushing ahead with the new products covering a wide range of prototypes, I know I could use a 4F or 2 on Annan Road, I have those 2 I rescued from your stable to titilate. Will prob still buy one (or 2) though!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggy1953 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Nothing of particular inetrest to me, but the 37/4 will be nice and fancy seeing the J11. But overall i think Bachmann have done well. You can't have it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37079 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Possibly a bit of confusion here - the plywood 'Blue Spot' (sic) is a 15ft wheelbase vehicle, the earlier dia 134 is the 12ft (which Parkside also do). That said, I'm not sure which it is they're planning, I'd initially thought they'd do an even earlier one to fit the existing 10ft chassis but I'm not sure if those ones were 12T rated. Apologies, my original post wasn't very clear - I had assumed that Bachmann were intending a diagram 134 van as opposed to the first late-LNER/early-BR version (the one done by Dublo/Wrenn/Dapol as well as Parkside), I'd mentioned the BR van simply as a more useful (subjective I know!) example of a transition-era fish van bearing in mind what is currently available. Although I've now looked into it in more detail and the dia 134 van is rated at 10t in both original and rebuilt (insulated) form. The distinctive early style of LNER fish vans were also 10t rated - the only 12t LNER fish van I can find is the one that looks a lot like the contemporary ventilated vans on a 10ft wb, but is also (intriguingly) wooden-framed so I think would need a new or modified underframe tooling - if this is the case, then it does open up the possibility of a number of other LNER general merchandise van and open diagrams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2012 What chances are there of centre cars for the 101's at a later date? Also what betting that a NSE 101 will be the Collectors Club model next year... How long before there's a limited edition in yellow? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted March 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2012 Whilst I'm not sure I'd use the word 'balanced' to describe the announcement, I think it seems a sensible selection of new and improved items. Looks like Bachmann really are waiting for me to finish my Bulleid kits before revamping their own range. Mind you at least we're spared discussions about their choice of BR(S) coach green! I'm pleased for other folk though and a tad relieved that the cash will now be available for some of the Kernow specials. I see this is another thread being hijacked by the kit vs rtr argument. Can we not just accept that folk have different preferences, skills and demands on their time/cash? We're thankfully not all clones. Live and let live. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Although I've now looked into it in more detail and the dia 134 van is rated at 10t in both original and rebuilt (insulated) form. The distinctive early style of LNER fish vans were also 10t rated - the only 12t LNER fish van I can find is the one that looks a lot like the contemporary ventilated vans on a 10ft wb, but is also (intriguingly) wooden-framed so I think would need a new or modified underframe tooling - if this is the case, then it does open up the possibility of a number of other LNER general merchandise van and open diagrams. I've just checked on their website, it gives these details: 38-575 12 Ton Fish Van LNER Oxide 38-576 12 Ton Fish Van BR Bauxite (Early) 38-577 12 Ton Fish Van BR Bauxite (Late) which selection of liveries fairly definitely rules out either the Blue Spot types, or a rebuilt dia 134. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2012 As for the Colas 66 - I wonder if it will be an actual proper Colas 66 as per the pictures (66841 shown) and this could be a number error I have the transfers for 66846-850, so I know which one I want them to do! It wouldn't be the first time that the number has been changed on release - 350101 for a recent example. At least I can now safely proceed with a Mk2 66720, although I know that one of the LE brigade has been looking into the possibility of doing it.................... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted March 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2012 Why is it that now Bachmann have published their plans for a pretty large and diverse selection of models to be available over the coming months (18 of them!) that over half the posts on this thread are people whining about what they havn't offered etc? Because there are those (selfish?) people who think the Universe only revolves around them and that the Manufacturers are their own personal service providers to provide what they want and nothing else. The Railway Modelling fraternity is a very broad church which is something for which I am very thankful and they would do best to remember that. You cannot please all the people all the time. As for the eighteen month thing, at least you know it will be eighteen months (or less) for most of the items and that they will be worth the wait, something which Hornby have not so much dropped the ball on in recent years than thrown it down a very deep pit as the red box manufacturer's performance in the delivery dates and accuracy of finished product has in too many cases been disappointingly abysmal of late. It is no coincidencde that (with a little regret and sadness admittedly) the vast majority of my purchases recently and more so in the coming eighteen have been/will be in blue boxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 33212 Posted March 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2012 Humpf, was hoping for a BEP or a HAP.... no new EMU.... maybe Hornby could come up with something to complement the VEP, maybe a CIG, that'll learn them. Would also have liked a banger blue 47 with blanked headcode and headlight ETH variant....will go for Heljan now, cant wait any longer, Mk2 TSO new batch welcome will get four or five, and will go for Hornby aircons, cant wait for new versions either, so they'll only be getting about £100 from me in the next year or so :-( Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 33212 Posted March 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2012 Because there are those (selfish?) people who think the Universe only revolves around them and that the Manufacturers are their own personal service providers to provide what they want and nothing else. The Railway Modelling fraternity is a very broad church which is something for which I am very thankful and they would do best to remember that. You cannot please all the people all the time. As for the eighteen month thing, at least you know it will be eighteen months (or less) for most of the items and that they will be worth the wait, something which Hornby have not so much dropped the ball on in recent years than thrown it down a very deep pit as the red box manufacturer's performance in the delivery dates and accuracy of finished product has in too many cases been disappointingly abysmal of late. It is no coincidencde that (with a little regret and sadness admittedly) the vast majority of my purchases recently and more so in the coming eighteen have been/will be in blue boxes. True, but people are really only concerned about their own layouts, and are entitled to be a little miffed if they dont get what they want. I am pleased that many people will get some decent stuff but for me there is little - had there been a 4 SUB or 4 EPB or even better a 2 HAP, I'd have bought several over the course of the year...but cant so a cheap year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted March 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2012 Can't see Hornby doing a CIG somehow, there are plenty of unsold and returned VEP's floating about still and the VEP needs some attention first which to correct all the niggling faults could really benefit from being binned and starting again from scratch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvrnut Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Quite a varied selection from Bachmann, and no doubt many are pleased. But as a Southern modeller I am a little dissappointed. I was hoping with all fingers crossed that they might have continued the " Bluebell Railway theme ", and anounced an Adams Radial tank. Perhaps Kernow will take this one up. Cheers all, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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