Bachmann announce Fowler 4F

[Alan Higgi]

 

I won't mention the fact that the converted locos have steel wheels and the modern Bachmann wheels are a slippery chrome plated tread which needs some wearing in. 

 

 

I'm glad you did't mention that! This is my finding too.  34theletterbetweenB&D pointed me in that direction. A few guys have fitted Ultrascale wheels to stuff and reporrted a 20% increase in load hauling. I find a lump of lead is cheaper but Ultrascale wheels look wonderful.

 

Nice pic as is http://www.robertdar...ailways50yr.htm scroll down to 44424 on Saturday, 17^th August.1957.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Alan Higgi

[Montague]

I think it is a beautiful loco. I agree it is a bit loud though and slip quite easily, especially hauling a rake through the tight (about 21 inches radii) curves on my layout.

[SDJR7F88]

I think it is a beautiful loco. I agree it is a bit loud though and slip quite easily, especially hauling a rake through the tight (about 21 inches radii) curves on my layout.

Bachmann Midland 4F 3.jpgBachmann Midland 4F 2.jpg

Very nicely weathered! Did you do it yourself? Plus is it sprayed or powdered?

[Montague]

Thanks!

 

Yes, it is airbrushed with the 'Schackleton' Humbrol colours Matt black, Leather and Gunmetal, and then MIG Old rust and Black soot powders (the latter only in the tender).

[Dunsignalling]

The Railway Modeller claims 28 and

Midland or were they LMS Fowler 4Fs? - RMweb

 

here claims 34

In my experience all Bachmann steam outline locos are a bit weak out of the box but their capacity will increase by at least 50% after a few hours running has knocked the shine off the wheels.

 

My Collett 0-6-0 and N Class 2-6-0s struggled with more than 4 coaches initially but will now do 7 without trouble. Strongest so far is my "highest mileage" 9F which can start 45+ (mixed r-t-r and kitbuilts, average weight 35 grams) without slipping with two thirds of them on a 1 in 50 gradient and the rest trailing round a 3' curve at the bottom; when new, it could barely manage that load on the level and slipped on curves. 

 

John

[NHY 581]

Montague your 4F looks great. This really is nicely done. Mine is still pristine at the mo'.

I too have noticed mine is a bit loud now but nothing to worry about.

 

Rob

Edited November 13, 2013 by nhy581

[Montague]

Thanks Rob!

 

Unfortunately, after having installed an ESU Sound decoder and having witnessed a puff of black smoke which would have made Seuthe proud my 4F pictured above doesn't run anymore. I'm not an electrics guru, but for some reason the loco won't run even if I revert to the former Lenz decoder or put in the blanking plug and try it on DC.

 

Howe's will send me a new decoder but I don't know if I dare put in the same loco. Therefore, I am considering buying either a new 4F (in LMS livery) or the 3F. As I understand it, the 'generic' 4F sound from Howe's is equally suitable for the 3F, and both have 21 pin decoders. To my question:

 

For those of you who own both the 3F and 4F - is there any differences between the locos regarding detailing or mechanicals? Is there any reason I would be disappointed in the 3F when comparing it to the 4F?

Edited November 13, 2013 by Montague

[NHY 581]

With regard to the level of detail, I would say no real difference between the two. I have both and they are both fine models.

 

Rob

[Montague]

With regard to the level of detail, I would say no real difference between the two. I have both and they are both fine models.

 

Rob

And regarding mechanical/running qualities?

[john dew]

And regarding mechanical/running qualities?

[/quote

 

They are both excellent models. I think the 4F is a more reliable performer..........I keep meaning to put tender pick ups on the 3F

[Bob O]

In my experience all Bachmann steam outline locos are a bit weak out of the box but their capacity will increase by at least 50% after a few hours running has knocked the shine off the wheels.

 

My Collett 0-6-0 and N Class 2-6-0s struggled with more than 4 coaches initially but will now do 7 without trouble. Strongest so far is my "highest mileage" 9F which can start 45+ (mixed r-t-r and kitbuilts, average weight 35 grams) without slipping with two thirds of them on a 1 in 50 gradient and the rest trailing round a 3' curve at the bottom; when new, it could barely manage that load on the level and slipped on curves. 

 

John

Interesting!

[davefrk]

Of course it all depends on how free running 'your' wagons are. I don't think it's a good indicator for people to quote haulage with their own wagons as all it needs is one or two to have a stiff wheelset and the test is out the window.

 

I have a train of Bachmann and kit built minerals sitting on the layout and make up the numbers to 45 for test purposes. All new locos are tested to haul this lot and most will with ease, even a Bachmann 2MT being converted to EM and only the front halves of the rods fitted i.e. a 2-4-2 and it could move the train.

 

If my Bachmann 3F is good for 45 then I don't see a problem for the 4F which is slightly heavier. I'll let you all know when I've converted mine.

Another thing to check, as already mentioned are the tender pick-ups, they should be as light as possible against the axles. 

I won't mention the fact that the converted locos have steel wheels and the modern Bachmann wheels are a slippery chrome plated tread which needs some wearing in. 

 

 

 

 

Dave Franks

 

Okay, the Bachmenn 4F was converted to EM last week and tried on the 45 wagon test train. It did haul it with some slipping which reduced as the test period went on and was almost walking away with the train at the end. One thing that did show up was a lurch every wheel revolution which I took to be a wheel slipped on the axle with the effort. Today though the real reason was found, the chassis worked fine with the body off but not when fitted, the etched double thickness coupling rods were fouling the rear of the footplate steps. These steps have a very slightly tapered reinforcing rib which when the rods got to the top of the travel was causing a tightness. This also answered why the loco didn't like the slip on the crossover, the tightest curve on the layout. The slip road is nominally 4 foot radii and my usual 0.5mm (x2) sideplay on the centre axle of an 0-6-0 didn't seem to be enough but with the rods jammed between the steps the sideplay was zero or even pushed to the wrong side. The loco now works beautifully on the test track at home so tomorrow we'll have another go with the test train. The tender has also had Ultrascale wheels fitted and the pick-ups twisted round and shaped to bear lightly against the wheel backs in the normal fashion. If all proves successful the loco can then be detailed, the correct Midland 3500 gal tender coupled up and some light weathering applied - when I have the time to do all these things.

 

Oh and I almost forgot the pick-ups on both loco and tender are still to have the gold wire tips added, ask me how and why.

 

Dave Franks.

Edited December 17, 2013 by davefrk

[Michael Delamar]

I keep thinking about buying one, but my eye is continuously drawn to the horizontal join in front of the firebox. Does this unsettle others? Maybe a bit of grot will blend it out.

 

yes me too, havent bought one yet but will want a few in the future.

[Horsetan]

....in comparison with my Brassmasters 4F, ....

Still the ultimate 4F for me.

[davefrk]

yes me too, havent bought one yet but will want a few in the future.

 

I agree Michael but it's still a helluva lot better than a dirty great gearbox showing below the boiler as on the 3F. Bachmann could have used the same chassis block on the 4F but decided to redesign the chassis to drive the rear axle and hide the gearbox. I know which I prefer. The problem bit referred to is actually the rear of the motor mount and to fill the gaps would mean the chassis couldn't be removed from the body.... I intend to lower the body slightly to bring the motor mount and the boiler into better alignment or alternatively file the underside of the motor mount which would help disguise the 'join line'. The chassis would need completely stripped down for this though to avoid the fillings going where they shouldn't.

 

Dave Franks.

[davefrk]

Okay, the Bachmenn 4F was converted to EM last week and tried on the 45 wagon test train. It did haul it with some slipping which reduced as the test period went on and was almost walking away with the train at the end. One thing that did show up was a lurch every wheel revolution which I took to be a wheel slipped on the axle with the effort. Today though the real reason was found, the chassis worked fine with the body off but not when fitted, the etched double thickness coupling rods were fouling the rear of the footplate steps. These steps have a very slightly tapered reinforcing rib which when the rods got to the top of the travel was causing a tightness. This also answered why the loco didn't like the slip on the crossover, the tightest curve on the layout. The slip road is nominally 4 foot radii and my usual 0.5mm (x2) sideplay on the centre axle of an 0-6-0 didn't seem to be enough but with the rods jammed between the steps the sideplay was zero or even pushed to the wrong side. The loco now works beautifully on the test track at home so tomorrow we'll have another go with the test train. The tender has also had Ultrascale wheels fitted and the pick-ups twisted round and shaped to bear lightly against the wheel backs in the normal fashion. If all proves successful the loco can then be detailed, the correct Midland 3500 gal tender coupled up and some light weathering applied - when I have the time to do all these things.

 

Oh and I almost forgot the pick-ups on both loco and tender are still to have the gold wire tips added, ask me how and why.

 

Dave Franks.

 

Okay, the 4f was run in a bit more then put to work on the 45 wagon test train. Fortunately a line was temporaliy laid through the bare fiddleyard so we had a complete circuit to run. The 4F lifted the train with a bit of a slip but after a few circuits it could walk away with the whole job. The pointwork was also no problem even pushing the test train at walking pace through the slip it was so surefooted.

A good loco for Wharfeside and so I've just bought another one...

 

Dave Franks

[Jim49]

 

 

Oh and I almost forgot the pick-ups on both loco and tender are still to have the gold wire tips added, ask me how and why.

 

Dave Franks.

 

OK then, how and why?

 

Jim

[New Haven Neil]

Just found this slide while searching for something....43924, as modelled by Bachmann,  running rounds its train at Oxenhope in 1975. Instamatic quality I'm afraid....

WEB 43924 Oxenhope 1972.jpg

 

hey coach...look!

  Great minds...1985 though I think?

 

 

..as a very young Mrs NHN is on the footplate, and I was at college in 75 and hadn't met her.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2013 by New Haven Neil

[Michael Delamar]

I agree Michael but it's still a helluva lot better than a dirty great gearbox showing below the boiler as on the 3F. Bachmann could have used the same chassis block on the 4F but decided to redesign the chassis to drive the rear axle and hide the gearbox. I know which I prefer. The problem bit referred to is actually the rear of the motor mount and to fill the gaps would mean the chassis couldn't be removed from the body.... I intend to lower the body slightly to bring the motor mount and the boiler into better alignment or alternatively file the underside of the motor mount which would help disguise the 'join line'. The chassis would need completely stripped down for this though to avoid the fillings going where they shouldn't.

 

Dave Franks.

 

I would want to strip mine down to convert to EM gauge anyway so could do that at the time, has anyone here converted one to EM yet?

[Rail-Online]

The splashers on the 4F are over-size.  They are nowhere near as bad as the Airfix ones but the comparison with scale ones is quite scary.

 

Here's scale ones aligned with the reat of the Bachmann ones:

 

Tony

Edited December 21, 2013 by Rail-Online

[davefrk]

I would want to strip mine down to convert to EM gauge anyway so could do that at the time, has anyone here converted one to EM yet?

 

Hi Michael, I've only been banging on about it over the last 20 posts.....

It was quite easy really, Gibson 3F/4F conversion set includes the new brass bearings needed for the 2.5mm axles. The coupling rods aren't very nice so I'm having some new ones etched to suit the 4F, I should have the test etches next week and if okay will go into production. I've been thinking about rods for a while as I don't think the RTR rods are up to the job when you've spent decent money on new wheelsets.

 

All the best,

Dave Franks

[Michael Delamar]

sorry Dave I skipped a load of posts, Id agree with replacement rods, one thing that lets down a lot of RTR steam in my opinion.

 

it was a job to do that for my Bachmann class 03.

 

Mike

[brossard]

Bachmann"s coupling rod system leaves a lot to be desired IMO.  I just installed Markits crankpins into Jinty RTR wheels by snipping, filing and reaming to get the hole right.  I secured the pin with cyano.  Comet rods look a whole lot better.  Brassmaster's say that an Easi Chas will be available in the New Year (would have been available sooner had B not gone for rear wheel drive on this vs center drive on the 3F).

 

John

[davefrk]

Well, the 4F coupling rods arrived yesterday, must have been some holiday or other held them up.....
They are designed to fit the Bachmann 4F and 3F chassis when rewheeling with scale wheels.
Etched in nickel silver to aid soldering, (I hate soldering steel rods!!!) with correct knuckle joint and a nickel silver rivet. They have a crankpin bore slightly smaller than the standard 1.5mm of Gibson, Maygib, Markits (with bush) and Ultrascale crankpins so there's no excuse for trying to bush out the Bachmann rods. Gentle opening out for a 'running' fit using jewellers broaches is all that is required.
My own 4F was converted before Christmas but with impatience ruling I fitted an old set of scale Jinty rods, it worked fine but I didn't like the rods being jointed on the middle crankpin, too much slop.
The new three thickness rods were soldered up, 'corks' added, checked with the chassis, filed to shape and fitted, a very slight opening out of the crankpin holes on the first and second axles and it was running sweetly.... The crankpins are Gibson but the nuts are a bit big to my mind so I may turn the flange down a bit. This could be done with a few of them on a bit of a crankpin screw in a minidrill but I'll use the lathe, I know, what a smart arse.
Remember though to remove the tapered rib behind the running plate step if converting to EM or P4 as there is very little clearance.

 

A number of Bachmann locos have a stretched wheelbase so normal scale rods don't fit, however these rods are correct 8'0''x 8'6'' so could be used on kit chassis frames or other locos and of-course could also be altered to fit other wheelbases by the cut and shut method.

The rods should be available in February with other types to follow.
And, not forgetting more bufferstops.

Dave Franks.
 

 

Edited March 9, 2014 by davefrk

[PenrithBeacon]

A number of Bachmann locos have a stretched wheelbase so normal scale rods don't fit ...

Would you like to be more specific?

 

Regards