Bachmann announce Fowler 4F

[Rail-Online]

Would you like to be more specific?

 

Regards

The Lanky 2-4-2T for starters!

 

Tony

[davefrk]

Would you like to be more specific?

 

Regards

 

Hi David, The Jubilee, the Patriot, IIRC the 9F. I don't know about the GW, SR, or LNE models But basically the locos where the wheels are close together. Bachmann have moved the wheelbase out a bit to get the brakes in. With the 4F and 3F there is plenty room for the brakes so the wheelbase is correct. One doesn't notice the 1 or 2mm discrepancy until you start measuring up for better looking rods.

Hope that helps.

 

Dave Franks

[davefrk]

The Lanky 2-4-2T for starters!

 

Tony

 

I know someone who is looking at doing new scale chassis frames for the Lanky tank, no not me.

[PenrithBeacon]

The Lanky 2-4-2T for starters!

 

Tony

Oh Dear! It looks as though Bachmann has made a pigs-ear out of the last three LMS Group engines, certainly as far as the finescale community are concerned. Just out of interest, what are the coupled axle centres on the model?

 

Regards

 

PS thanks to davefrk for his reply too.

[Bernard Lamb]

Oh Dear! It looks as though Bachmann has made a pigs-ear out of the last three LMS Group engines, certainly as far as the finescale community are concerned.

Well no.

RTR models have wheels with oversize flanges.

Two solutions.

Make the wheels undersize or lengthen the wheel base.

Other than working to P4 standards there has to be a compromise.

The Castle does and the Brighton Atlantic will, also be the subject of a compromise.

Even Guy Williams has been known to lengthen the wheelbase.

Take a look at his GN Atlantic.

His work is "finescale " enough for me.

Bernard

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... IIRC the 9F...

'Nudged' from scale for the correct 5'5" spacing; to 22mm centres so scaling 5'6". Just wins enough breathing space that OO flanges aren't at risk of grinding against each other with the tyres at a scale diameter, and no significant impact on overall appearance. This is an intelligent compromise for a RTR item.

[coachmann]

From memory the coupled wheelbase on the L&Y 2-4-2T is 8' 7". It works out at this on the model.

[davefrk]

An update on the EM converted Bachmann 4F. After initial running in and then being fitted with the new coupling rods and some more running in the loco was coupled to the test train on 'Wharfeside', The 4F walked away with the train without a slip and it ran round for over half an hour. It was when I used the 4F to test the new pointwork in the fiddleyard that the five minutes of rough shunting with the test train shifted one of the wheels on the driven axle and it all jammed up stopping the job. The Gibson wheelsets are on a 2.5mm axle but weren't exactly a tight fit on the axle so I had to resort to the Loctite 603. I'll refit the wheel over the weekend and hopefully have it working for the next club meet.

The 4F was bedding in nicely and the test train which has been added to with Conflats making it 50 wagons is still the train for testing on the layout with most locos being able to haul it, the RSH Pug could almost do it with a push to start!!!

The 4F haulage has improved greatly with use, either that or the wagons have become more free running with all the roundy roundy action there're getting now.

 

The new fiddleyard points as of Wednesday with the test train split in two in the sidings, part built 8F being run in.

 

All the best,
Dave Franks.

Edited January 17, 2014 by davefrk

[davefrk]

A further update on the Bachmann 4F converted to EM gauge. After having a wheel slip on the axle yet again I decided to make a new axle to exactly 2.5mm diameter, the original was 2.45mm and wasn't too tight in the wheels. The leading and middle axles seemed to be okay and interestingly measured in at 2.48mm, not much of a difference but one could feel they were a slightly tighter fit in the wheels, the Loctite 603 was holding but the rear (driven) axle was the one that just wouldn't grip. The wheels were assembled on the new axle without 603 and the loco is now running sweetly and on test last night was hauling the test train round for half an hour even pushing the 50 wagon test train in and out of the storage sidings. So just to annoy everyone the test train was added to until the 4F just slipped on starting but lifted the train away and continued again for 30 minutes with no problems and no motor heating. We're now up to 63 four wheel wagons of kit built and RTR so I think that's enough, the fiddleyard sidings are only good for 40 wagons max. 

 

Just to answer a couple of comments, these wagons have had some attention to the bearings. The RTR ones have had the pinpoint bearing holes cleaned out with the Ultrascale axle bearing tuner and a tiny drop of Carrs 'white grease' added, the kitbuilt ones are all running with brass bearings again with grease. All wheels are Gibson set to 16.65mm back to back. They are very free running hence a loco being able shift so many.

 

The point about adding a gold wire tip to the pick-ups is to improve the contact between the steel wheel and the phosphor bronze strip. The gold wire was £75 per metre but as you use less than 10mm that's only 75p per loco. Here's how to do it, flatten the dimple on the end of the pick-up strip, slightly abrade the area and tin lightly with solder, hold the gold wire across the strip at the end, add a touch of flux and touch with the iron, snip off the excess wire you're holding and move onto the next one, that's about 1mm of wire per pick-up.

 

Hope that all helps,

Dave Franks

Edited January 30, 2014 by davefrk

[davefrk]

Just to annoy people even further.

Today the converted Bachmann 4F took a train of 70 four wheel wagons around the layout without much of a slip so I think the axle problem is now cured. Oh, and it reversed the same train 3 times round the layout just to prove it was possible..... Driver Chas was at first tentative but then blase` as the speed was increased.

 

Dave Franks.

[Michael Delamar]

very interesting Dave, thank you.

[davefrk]

 We're now up to 63 four wheel wagons of kit built and RTR so I think that's enough, the fiddleyard sidings are only good for 40 wagons max. 

 

Just to answer a couple of comments, these wagons have had some attention to the bearings. The RTR ones have had the pinpoint bearing holes cleaned out with the Ultrascale axle bearing tuner and a tiny drop of Carrs 'white grease' added, the kitbuilt ones are all running with brass bearings again with grease. All wheels are Gibson set to 16.65mm back to back. They are very free running hence a loco being able shift so many.

 

Dave Franks

 

Well, we've found the limit for the EM converted Bachmann 4F, the train has been added to as wagons have had the axle bearings 'tuned' and fitted with 3 link couplings. The wagons are mostly fitted with 3 link or screw couplings with a smattering of Jacksons but no RTR couplings.

The 4F which by now is well run in, lifted the train, just, and continued round the curve until the drag slowed the whole job and left the 4F spinning it's wheels.

A gentle push on the guards van and it continued through the fiddleyard to the curve on the other end of the layout and slithered to a halt again, to be honest the rear of the train was still on one curve whilst the front was on the other.....

I think we beat it with a 100 wagon train. Way-Hey.   Okay, playtime over, back to building points.

Dave Franks.

[meil]

Well, the 4F coupling rods arrived yesterday, must have been some holiday or other held them up.....

They are designed to fit the Bachmann 4F and 3F chassis when rewheeling with scale wheels.

Etched in nickel silver to aid soldering, (I hate soldering steel rods!!!) with correct knuckle joint and a nickel silver rivet. They have a crankpin bore slightly smaller than the standard 1.5mm of Gibson, Maygib, Markits (with bush) and Ultrascale crankpins so there's no excuse for trying to bush out the Bachmann rods. Gentle opening out for a 'running' fit using jewellers broaches is all that is required.

My own 4F was converted before Christmas but with impatience ruling I fitted an old set of scale Jinty rods, it worked fine but I didn't like the rods being jointed on the middle crankpin, too much slop.

The new three thickness rods were soldered up, 'corks' added, checked with the chassis, filed to shape and fitted, a very slight opening out of the crankpin holes on the first and second axles and it was running sweetly.... The crankpins are Gibson but the nuts are a bit big to my mind so I may turn the flange down a bit. This could be done with a few of them on a bit of a crankpin screw in a minidrill but I'll use the lathe, I know, what a smart arse.

Remember though to remove the tapered rib behind the running plate step if converting to EM or P4 as there is very little clearance.

 

 

A number of Bachmann locos have a stretched wheelbase so normal scale rods don't fit, however these rods are correct 8'0''x 8'6'' so could be used on kit chassis frames or other locos and of-course could also be altered to fit other wheelbases by the cut and shut method.

 

The rods should be available in February with other types to follow.

And, not forgetting more bufferstops.

 

Dave Franks.

 

Are you going to be making these rods available?

[Michael Delamar]

Ive got mine now, I got 2 from Bachmann at Ally Pally prior to the scrum and they are really nice models. both with fowler tenders.

just need to research the differences now with regards chimneys etc,  one will be 43988 but unsure what number the second one is going to be.

[davefrk]

Are you going to be making these rods available?

 

Hi Mel, the 4F rods are ready to go on the website just the instructions to complete and we're there.

Rods for the Bachmann Jubilee and Patriot are at the etchers this week. The trial ones are just beautiful if I say so myself.

 

 

These Jubilee rods are 'stretched' by 1mm to fit the Bachmann model and won't fit a scale model without  a cut and shut job, easily done due to the design of the fret.

Price for all rods to be between £5 -£6 , that includes the nickel silver rivets for the knuckle joint and instructions on assembly and fitting.

The next rods are also at the etchers, rods for 8'+8'6'' outside cylinder locos, similar look to the Jubilee but plain or fluted to the standard LMS wheelbase for 2-6-2, 2-6-4 tanks, Crabs, Stanier Mogul, etc.etc. Other types to follow in due course.

 

Meanwhile the EM gauge Bachmann 4F continues to amaze, now running much more smoothly and quietly, I don't think I'll need to fit a Mashima motor afterall. I'm almost afraid to disassemble it to add the 2mm cosmetic frames to the chassis. The Gibson, late Midland/LMS 3500 gal tender with cab is nearly ready to hang on the back. If only I had the time.

 

All the best.

Dave Franks.

[SEVERN VALLEY]

My new BM 4F is a lovely model and runs very well. BUT - there is a problem. It derails on curved points.in situations where my other 20+ locos do not. My lovely local model shop has changed my loco or me but the problem is still persists with the replacement. Has any body else had the same experience and found a solution.

 

Regards, John.

[brossard]

A little more detail John please.  Is/are the point(s) Hornby, Peco, hand made or someone else's?  My first thought on hearing things like this is back to back.  RTR locos tend to be a tad narrow in my experience (I usually aim for 14.5mm), but I've never had an issue with this.  I've never had to resort to adjusting drivers.  I'm guessing the derailment occurs at the crossing.  Opening out the flangeways with a small flat file has helped me in the past.  A picture of the offending point with an indication of where the derailment occurs would help too.

 

John

Edited September 11, 2014 by brossard

[SEVERN VALLEY]

Brossard, thank you for your helpful reply and I apologise for my late reply.. My layout is about 15 years old and all track and pointwork is Peco.

 

In desperation I ran two express trains on my up and down continuos runs each comprising a pacific loco and 6 coaches, a total of 136 wheels ! They perfomed perfectly as always.

 

I then ran the 4F in turn behind each train and guess what - it derailed on points on both cuircuits.

 

I then returned to my very good model shop and exchanged the 4F for a J11 - it has performed faultlessly. This would appear to be a production problem with this batch of 4F locos.

 

I am sure your comments are correct and again thanks.

 

Best regards, John.

[brossard]

Glad you got a loco that works to your satisfaction John.  Pity about the 4F.

 

John

[hornbyandbf3fan]

I've had the same problem with my 4f as well, but it only happens so often on the same point. 

[brossard]

Will, as above I recommend you measure the wheels (drivers and tender) back to backs.  For this, it's best to use a digital caliper, a useful tool to have if you don't have one.  I would expect them to be around 14.4mm.  Measure two or three times to get a good average.  Mine measures  between 14.4 - 14.5mm, but it hasn't run beyond an initial play on a straight test track.   It's surprising, as little as 0.1mm can make a difference.

 

John 

[robday12]

Hi guys, I just got hold of one of these yesterday in the Ian Allan Bookshop in Manchester, (£73.00, item No. 31-881) with the "Johnson/Deely" tender. I have been trying to find out, which numbered locos had these tenders and when the last of  this tender type were withdrawn.

Can anybody point me to a source of info for this?

 

Cheers,

Rob.

[Colin]

Just noticed that one of the 2015 releases is numbered 44044.

I always thought that the LMS 4Fs started at 44027 - does this mean the new model should have some significant detail differences?

[robday12]

Just noticed that one of the 2015 releases is numbered 44044.

I always thought that the LMS 4Fs started at 44027 - does this mean the new model should have some significant detail differences?

The LMS 4Fs number sequence did begin at 4027, but the first few batches were right hand drive like their Midland built counterparts. According to Bob Essery in "Midland Record" #2 the left hand drive loco number sequence began at 4207, so I would guess there would not be too many differences. One difference was the lack of beading on the splashers of the LMS build.

 

Cheers

Rob

Edited March 8, 2015 by robday12

[Colin]

Rob,

 

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. If you ever find out when the Deeley tender versions last ran, please let me know. I have the Bachmann 43875 which I understand lasted until 1958, but I wonder if there were lots of tender swaps as more locos were withdrawn - my guess is that the Deeley tenders disappeared fairly rapidly.