RMweb Premium Kris Posted March 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thanks Ben, it is indeed helpful. The most common consist was a 3-car set formed BSK-CK-BSK. Expresses would quite often be formed of 2 or 3 of these sets (sometimes with catering vehicles). The usefulness of this is that you can easily represent a portion of a longer train that has been detached at a junction. As others have noted, BSKs are probably the most useful vehicles so anyone looking to form prototypical rakes would do well to pre-order enough of these to meet their needs as I predict they will sell out first. Two coach sets were also quite common. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The obvious follow-on addition to the range for 2013 would be a Brake Composite, then the famous Atlantic Coast Express could be modelled. (Yes, getting a bit ahead of things!). All of the brake composites had the shallower window vents, but hopefully they will do them. It seems to me Farish could perhaps model the earier shallow vent types just by changing the window inserts, assuming they do them the same as their Mk1s. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Two coach sets were also quite common. Certainly, I never meant to imply that 3-car sets were the only type used. I think I have heard to Maunsell 2-car sets being reffered to as P-sets (perhaps someone more knowledgable could confirm or refute this?) Not sure about the Bulleid equivelent. All of the brake composites had the shallower window vents, but hopefully they will do them. It seems to me Farish could perhaps model the earier shallow vent types just by changing the window inserts, assuming they do them the same as their Mk1s. The Mk1s are excellent models and Farish's policy of steadily releasing extra types of vehicle seems a good one. I hope they do indeed apply the same logic to the Bulleids. I agree that a brake composite would be an excellent vehicle (also very handy for branch line trains on smaller layouts). Perhaps a Bogie B to go with them? Failing that I can see demand for Dapol's SR CCT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted March 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2012 Perhaps a Bogie B to go with them? Failing that I can see demand for Dapol's SR CCT. Ultima do an excellant kit for the bogie B. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Just notice that the March issue of Model Rail has a useful article on SR coach formations. Although there is a slight over-emphasis on the famous ACE, other trains and formations get a look-in. The article is written with 4mm in mind and lists Hornby and Bachmann Maunsell, Bulleid and Mk1 stock. However a lot of the information is also useful for Farish's range. Now we just have to see if Dapol come up with the Maunsells. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52006-model-rail-167-march/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 The Farish website also has the LMS 50ft full brakes listed, though I can't see them mentioned in the announcement. Of course they have, I built one from a kit not long ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabber Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Of course they have, I built one from a kit not long ago At least you finished it. I'm only half way through one - I need to think whether I can make it a noticably different version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rprodgers Posted March 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2012 The obvious follow-on addition to the range for 2013 would be a Brake Composite, then the famous Atlantic Coast Express could be modelled. (Yes, getting a bit ahead of things!). A centre toilet Brake comp would be an obvious choice for Farish, with a variety of different numbers, allowing several of these to be purchased to recreate the ACE. This was an obvious choice in 00 when Bachmann released their Bulleid coaches all those years ago and still no BCK's of any description were forthcoming. People therefore looked elsewhere to the likes of Southern Pride, Comet etc. and Bachmann missed out on the sales. I fear the same thing may happen in N despite the imminent appearance of a Bulleid pacific from both Bachmann & Dapol (Bachmann could sell at least 3 Bulleid coaches for every Dapol Bulleid Light Pacific sold) However if Bachmann do not seize the opportunity then maybe Dapol should look at this as a least costly coach option....for them it would be the basis of a complete train to accompany their Bulleid Pacific and utilising moulds for a single coach. Modellers could purchase several BCK's to make up one train and it would be a accurate train even with as few as 1 coach as the train used to sometimes roll into Padstow! R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 However if Bachmann do not seize the opportunity then maybe Dapol should look at this as a least costly coach option....for them it would be the basis of a complete train to accompany their Bulleid Pacific and utilising moulds for a single coach. I cannot see Dapol filling in the blank to be honest. Unless they already planned Bulleid coaches for their 2012 range then I suspect they will steer clear of them completely. Otherwise they might have done Stannier catering vehicles (another obvious gap in Farish's range). The best we can hope for probably is that Dapol do some Maunsell coaches which are probably a much safer bet from their point of view. I agree that a BCK would be highly desirable. However as others have pointed out, the BCKs were built to a different diagram than the batch Farish are producing. More likely that we will see the BCK in a year or so just as they have expanded their Mk1 range. To be fair, the range that Farish are producing allow a lot of possible formations to be modelled (even if a couple of famous ones are excluded). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rprodgers Posted March 21, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2012 K I take your point that the Bulleid BCK is unlikely to appear. It just seems strange that such an obvious ommision has been repeated again by Bachmann (Farish) all those years ago after the same thing happened in 00. Unlike a Stanier dining car, which you mentioned, for which there may only be one such coach per train a short plausible BR (SR) can consist almost wholly of BCKs sometimes with some seconds as strengtheners. I only mentioned Dapol as I can see that for almost every Bulleid Light Pacific purchasers will want Bulleid coaches to accompany it . The outcome will be that for every Bulleid loco Dapol sell it will generate sales of 4-5 or more Farish Bulleid coaches rather than the sales appearing on their own balance sheet. A BCK would neatly provide a solution* R Footnote See the book Atlantic Coast Express' by Stephen Austen) which was split into "different" trains along the way often being a sole BCK + light pacific at Padstow the final destination A typical down consist for the ACE from Waterloo BSK- Ilfracombe CK- Ilfracombe BSK- Ilfracombe BCK - Torrington RS - restauarant second KB - kitchen buffet * BCK - Padstow *BCK - Bude *BCK - Plymouth *BCK - Exmouth *BCK- Sidmouth *BCK - Exeter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The etch tools I have can spit out any long Bulleid to order except the tavern cars so I'll certainly be adjusting the size slightly and letting Mr Hacksaw and Mr RTR Bulleid coach become good friends. Thank goodness BR(S) had as little as possible to do with all this lining nonsense other companies liked 8) Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Hello all, I am not sure if this is helpful but here are the full catalogue listings: 374-430 Bulleid 63' Second Brake Corridor Open - Green 374-431 Bulleid 63' Second Brake Corridor Open - Crimson & Cream 374-440 Bulleid 63' Second Corridor - Green 374-441 Bulleid 63' Second Corridor - C&C 374-450 Bulleid 63' Second Open - Green 374-451 Bulleid 63' Second Open - C&C 374-460 Bulleid 63' Composite corridor - Green 374-461 Bulleid 63' Composite corridor - C&C Hopefully this will help the more knowledgeable - I haven't the foggiest how Bulleid coaches were operated or in which consists! cheers Ben A. In which case we would be able to create 4-sets 80-94 (BTK(SO)-TK-CK-BTK(SO)), 3-sets 830-37 (BTK(SO)-CK-BTK(SO)), and 5-sets 838-49 (BTK(SO)-TK-CK-TK-BTK(SO)) - sets 830-37 were strengthened with 2x TK (to make them identical to 838-49) in the summer months. All the models proposed were also available as 'loose' vehicles so one could make 'scratch' formations too. 80-94 were allocated to Kent Coast services (London-Dover, Ramsgate, etc) until 1962 when they went to Tonbridge Wells West services, except 80 and 86 which were strengthened to 9 (BTK-CK-TK-TK-CK-TK-TK-CK-BTK) and 8 cars (BTK-TK-TK-CK-CK-TK-TK-BTK) respectively and transferred to 'WoE' services. 830-49 were on the Western Section for Waterloo to 'West of England' services. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas G Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 It seems that the eight Bulleid coaches announced are on their way from China. What a shame Farish haven't taken the chance following the discussion here and elsewhere to produce two versions of the BTK(SO) in the first batch, as whatever set you want to do, it is likely you will need two of these coaches. I am not sure what to do, wanting a three car set - grab two of the BTK(SOs) plus a CK, and renumber one of the brakes, or wait for a second batch of the brakes with a different number. Douglas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 If you wait for the second batch, the first will probably have sold out. My suggestion is buy now but leave the numbering alone. Then you can run a complete rake as long as you don't look too carefully at the numbering. When the second batch comes out, buy one from there and sell the first one on eBay to someone who will have started collecting with the second batch and will be facing the same dilema. Simples! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas G Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 If you wait for the second batch, the first will probably have sold out. My suggestion is buy now but leave the numbering alone. Then you can run a complete rake as long as you don't look too carefully at the numbering. When the second batch comes out, buy one from there and sell the first one on eBay to someone who will have started collecting with the second batch and will be facing the same dilema. Simples! Yep, I agree, I'm going to buy now - will get an order onto eHattons ASAP. However, I think I will just get the one brake, as Bachmann/Farish are good at doing new versions with different numbers as supplies are exhausted, and the brakes are sure to be snapped up quickly. I don't think my wait will be too long... When Dapol did the GWR Collett coaches, they did two numbers of each model, so a prototypical formation was easier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted November 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2013 Must admit I never worry about numbers - they are really difficult to see. On the other hand, Peco track, Rapido couplings, overscale gaps, lack of corridor connections etc all stand out a mile. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 It seems that the eight Bulleid coaches announced are on their way from China. What a shame Farish haven't taken the chance following the discussion here and elsewhere to produce two versions of the BTK(SO) in the first batch, as whatever set you want to do, it is likely you will need two of these coaches. I am not sure what to do, wanting a three car set - grab two of the BTK(SOs) plus a CK, and renumber one of the brakes, or wait for a second batch of the brakes with a different number. Douglas My past concern has been that they have sized the batches to cater for the user requirement for two BTK(SO) coaches for one each of the others (particularly the CK), for making up of sets. I can deal with a bit of renumbering and set number application, I just need to make sure I can get 2 brake vehicles for each set I make up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 the BTK(SOs) Do you mean BTKs = Brake Third Coridor or SO = Second Open??? It's one or the other not both unless I'm missing something in your type codes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Do you mean BTKs = Brake Third Coridor or SO = Second Open??? It's one or the other not both unless I'm missing something in your type codes? BTK(SO) = Brake Third Koridor (semi-open), more recently it would be shown in lower case BTKso. The termonology was lasy used on 3rd rail stock e.g. DTCsoL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas G Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hi PLD, I was using the coding BTK(SO) used by Talisman56 in post #42, which I took as meaning Brake Third Corridor (Semi-Open). However, searching the net and in books it looks like this may not be an official designation. As you say, SO normally means second open. Looking at the books on Bulleid coaches by David Gould and SW Stevens-Stratten, these coaches are described as "Semi-open Third Brake" in the former and "Semi-open Brake Third" in the latter. The plans show they combined a corridor section that ran along the side of the luggage compartment, guards compartment, two third class passenger compartments and a central toilet, followed by open seating with a central gangway in the rest of the coach. Is there any other way you could differentiate these coaches from ordinary corridor brake thirds in the coding? Douglas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hi PLD, I was using the coding BTK(SO) used by Talisman56 in post #42, which I took as meaning Brake Third Corridor (Semi-Open). However, searching the net and in books around it looks like this is not an official designation. As you say, SO normally means second open. Looking at the books on Bulleid coaches by David Gould and SW Stevens-Stratten, these coaches are described as "Semi-open Third Brake" in the former and "Semi-open Brake Third" in the latter. The plans show they combined a corridor section that ran along the side of the luggage compartment, guards compartment, two third class passenger compartments and a central toilet, followed by open seating with a central gangway in the rest of the coach. Is there any other way you could differentiate these coaches from ordinary corridor brake thirds in the coding? Douglas I am using the BTK(SO) designation (meaning exactly what Douglas surmised) because I wanted to distingush them from all-open BTO and all-compartment BTK vehicles, and have been using this designation for several years. I use the (SO) in brackets to distinguish it from the 'Second Open' abbreviation, I can then type all the coach abbreviations with 'Caps Lock' on. I have seen this in use elsewhere (if I think very hard I can probably remember where) and didn't think that it might not be an official designation. Call me lazy for not wanting to spell out 'Semi-open Brake Third' all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas G Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I was a bit confused when I first saw Bachmann calling these coaches "Bullied 63' Second Brake Corridor Open", as I wondered how they could be open and corridor coaches at the same time. "Semi-open Brake Corridor Third" or "Semi-open Brake Corridor Second" make a lot more sense to me, now I have had a look at the plans in the reference books. Douglas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 A repeat stirring of the pot....... Why are Bulleid coaches (nearly) always described as 63 ft. ?, whereas, the mainline passenger BR Mk.1s, are described as 64 ft. ?. They are, exactly, the same length, prototypically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 A repeat stirring of the pot....... Why are Bulleid coaches (nearly) always described as 63 ft. ?, whereas, the mainline passenger BR Mk.1s, are described as 64 ft. ?. They are, exactly, the same length, prototypically. Perhaps (and in no way based on actual as you would have it information ) Bulleid was rounding down and BR were rounding up? Or round towards nearest odd number and normal round to nearest whole number for BR? Or it could just be another incarnation of "Bulleid Specialness" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 It's a bit odd especially given that they were 64'6 on a 63'5 underframe. They do need to specify something to distinguish from the earlier 59' on 58' underframe stock but 63ft is a most odd choice. Still so long as the CAD isn't 63ft 8) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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