Kenton Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Kenton, I can't see where you get the highbrow bit from for the scratchbuilding - but I do agree that not all of us are inventors. After seeing the broadening of the definition in this thread and in some of the entries, I now temper that definition somewhat. But whereas I see the potential to enter in a layout challenge and even a diorama challenge as being as wide and diverse as modelling itself, I do not see scratchbuilding as such, particularly on what the term immediately conjures up for me. However, I guess that both a diorama and layout challenge do to quite some extent also embody some scratch building unless they are simply open a box and plonk. In that spirit I guess the definition is really wide enough to cover just about everyone. But from my perspective I am having difficulty in getting as enthused as I was on previous challenges. But still wish all who enter, some enjoyment from the process, and as always these competitions seem to reinvigourate RMWeb and are unreservedly a good thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I am using this as the push required to get a model made. I want to have my carriage on my layout when I get that far. I hope to have some fun and learn a few things on the way. I f I were to win it would be wonderful, but I hope in the end it just compares favourably with the other models being made. Good luck to all those who have started. To the rest, come on join in you do not know what you are capable of until you try. No one on here would belittle anyones attempt only encourage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex98 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 If you have an innovation do you have to actually make it? Or can it just be plans? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Singpoint Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 To the rest, come on join in you do not know what you are capable of until you try. Time to dig out some drawings of Metropolitan Railway Electric Stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 If you have an innovation do you have to actually make it? Or can it just be plans? To stand the best chance of getting points you'd have to prove it works and the best way of doing that is buy making it (and even demonstrating it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 If this is what I think it is, make sure you don't have just the one etch done please, Jerry I couldn't agree more! M It could be, and if that were the case I am thinking to only do the motorised part of the chassis right now. If it isn't then the model would be (partly) French. My current problem is that the valve gear I have drawn and assembled doesn't appear to move correctly, and it is not clear to me what I have done wrong. The good news is that it looks like there is space for the motion without it sticking out. Time to move to my own thread I think... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 After seeing the broadening of the definition in this thread and in some of the entries, I now temper that definition somewhat. But whereas I see the potential to enter in a layout challenge and even a diorama challenge as being as wide and diverse as modelling itself, I do not see scratchbuilding as such, particularly on what the term immediately conjures up for me. While I have no idea what I would enter for innovation there are a few things that I could have a go at for my layout in the scratch build catagory (I'm taking a break from the layout so building something else) the cost and space needed for a layout or diorama (which to justify the cost I would like to be able to use in a future layout) prohibits me from undertaking such an entry, as such i would welcome in the future a category similar to the scratch build run alongside the traditional layout/diorama format Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SXHALL Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Well I will be throwing together something for the scratchbuild category this year. Only problem I have is as it is not constrained any near as much as previous challenges I am spoilt as to what, how and how big!!!! Seeing as I have a penchant for creating structures it will undoubtedly be a building of some sorts. I did have an idea for the innovation category of being able to wire a complete layout with only two wires that control everything!?!?! Doubt it would work though Will have to take stock and come up with a shortlist, may even create more than one entry...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted March 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2012 Will have to take stock and come up with a shortlist, may even create more than one entry...... I hereby claim the 2012 Innovation Challenge as "The concept of having more than one entry in the 2012 Scratchbuild Challenge" - it seems to be quite a popular innovation, crossing all boundries of scale, era, model and prototype basis. I thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Smith Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Perhaps I could enter my 2mmFS GWR Metro Tank - I started with the gearbox and chassis in January. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Copleston Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Today is the 7th birthday of RMweb and the day the 2012 Challenge, or should I say Challenges, are launched. The first Challenge is looking forward whilst the second Challenge takes us back to the roots of the hobby. The second Challenge is the Scratchbuild category where entrants are encouraged to enter any item of rolling stock or building which is not purely a modification or alteration of any previously commercially available item. Any entries may include commercially produced components. Au contraire Monsieur Andy, surely scratchbuilding isn’t looking backwards but forwards to the future (believe me) as we reconnect with the roots of our hobby of making things? If there is to be a scratchbuilding ‘challenge’, then it must put us S scalers in with a real chance for once! So let the best model-maker win! Oh, and many happy returns RMweb - seven candles and cakes may now be enjoyed. Congrats to all contributors and members, I guess! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 What is the definition of 'a trading business'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 What is the definition of 'a trading business'? To put it into context rather than just answer the question: Any entries should not be representative of a trading business. You could, using you as an example, enter a personal entry as Bill Bedford but not in a fashion which promotes your business or be developed, within the context of the challenge, as a means of promoting a product which you then go on to make commercially available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2012 I hereby claim the 2012 Innovation Challenge as "The concept of having more than one entry in the 2012 Scratchbuild Challenge" - it seems to be quite a popular innovation, crossing all boundries of scale, era, model and prototype basis. I thank you. Yeah - but there was a bloke called Stubby47 who entered about 19 items in the 2011 Challenge, and did rather well with them all, so innovative it ain't! Disqualified! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted March 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yeah - but there was a bloke called Stubby47 who entered about 19 items in the 2011 Challenge, and did rather well with them all, so innovative it ain't! Disqualified! Flippin' band-wagon jumpers ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted March 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2012 To put it into context rather than just answer the question: You could, using you as an example, enter a personal entry as Bill Bedford but not in a fashion which promotes your business or be developed, within the context of the challenge, as a means of promoting a product which you then go on to make commercially available. So, anyone who is not a trader (eg me) could conceive of a product, develop that product idea through the Challenge, then take that to the actual stage of producing goods for retail to others, But, someone who is already trading (eg Bill) could not do the same thing ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 What is the definition of 'a trading business'? A trading business is one where the value of sales exceeds the sum of the goods and services that need to be purchased to enable the sales to be made. (ie profit) Anything else is just a commercial hobby. So I guess in the context of the challenge, you could sell as many as you like (covering costs) but just don't make a profit doing so. Which in my mind seems to make it a no win game, as anything worth a patent or worth inventing - is worth selling aka Bill Gates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 So, anyone who is not a trader (eg me) could conceive of a product, develop that product idea through the Challenge, then take that to the actual stage of producing goods for retail to others, But, someone who is already trading (eg Bill) could not do the same thing ? Not necessarily; if I may illustrate through three scenarios 1. You're not a trader but you come up with a great idea and after the challenge it goes on to make you a mint; no problem. 2. You are a trader, you use the challenge as a means to raise the profile of the product. Problem. 3. You are a trader, you make a private entry and after the challenge go on to sell the product and make a mint. No problem. Which in my mind seems to make it a no win game, as anything worth a patent or worth inventing - is worth selling aka Bill Gates. See above (before jumping to conclusions). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 after the challenge See above (before jumping to conclusions). Ah, the critical condition must be met after the challenge that makes a difference. Along with the badge Winner of the RMWeb 2012 Challenge which must be equivalent to the "Queens Award To Industry" : Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katier Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Any entries may include commercially produced components. Prejumably a modified chassis etch and whitemetal buffers and 'springs' is fine within this? Body and much of the undercarriage of the truck being 100% scratchbuilt. Using the etch to ensure alignment of the wheels. and the castings as I don't have a hope of scratchbuilding those Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Prejumably a modified chassis etch and whitemetal buffers and 'springs' is fine within this? Absolutely fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Does the model/item to be scratchbuilt be of UK origin ? Because I'm from 'Down Under', it makes it difficult to go out and photograph/measure up structures/rollingstock/infrastructure.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 It can be anything you like Jack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Firstly, why am I still awake at 3.30am? Secondly, and most importantly, is it permissible to get your designs produced by a professional etching company (as a one off) for this competition. As an all-fingers-and-thumbs type of chap whose toolbox has a good selection of hammers but not much else, this will help someone like me produce accurate 'bits' to put together. I don't want to be seen as cheating though, or lose respect of the many, erm... Or lose sight of the aim of this challenge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Can't see any problem with that at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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