paperman Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Hi, I'm wanting to install a decoder into my Dapol A4. Looking at the instructions, I know the tender body is removed to gain access to the blanking plug, but I'm not sure how the body comes off. What's the correct method to use? I don't want to damage anything! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just to answer an earlier point about slidebars- I've been running in my A4 on the test track today (hopefully the first of a pair) and noticed the slidebars angled sligtly upwards on one side- the other side being correctly horizontal. A slight push with a small screwdriver corrected this- it was slightly short of correctly seated (by about 0.1 of a millimetre). Certainly a smaller adjustment than I've needed to make to other locos of many different makes to get them to run smoothly...... BTW after about an hour it is quietening down, more so in reverse. All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Just purchased a Silver Fox online. Looking forward to giving it a run when it arrives and reporting back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 The more I look at the bottom picture in the post above by TomE the more I think it's not as much the casing shape as the way it sits on the chassis, as someone else pointed out earlier. The cab end is too high and the front too low, look at the cab rainstrip, it seems to be leaning forward (although it could be that the low slidebars forced it to be sat on the chassis this way). I think like the B1, this was rushed towards the end (after the body was more or less complete) in case of Bachmann announced competition, after all Bachmann are going through their Poole aquired range and replacing the dead wood, and maybe the pacifics were next (one the Duchess is). Well I have had a good old look at my "Wild Swan" this afternoon. On mine at least I just cannot see the "cab high and nose down" issue that is apparently obvious to others, it looks pretty good to me. Could this be an assembly issue on some or am I just missing the point? Attached is a pic of mine with my BachFarish "Merlin" behind. Both are on the track as can be seen,, not over any join or anything that might distort and a reasonable profile shot. To me the cab looks right on the Dapol model relative to the the rear truck and tender and nothing else too out of place either. It also illustrates to me just how much better the Dapol model is, and how well the excellent livery application Bachmann have applied to "Merlin" draws the eye away from it's other deficiencies. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 It also illustrates to me just how much better the Dapol model is, and how well the excellent livery application Bachmann have applied to "Merlin" draws the eye away from it's other deficiencies. Roy Thanks for posting that picture, Roy. I think these side-by-side comparison photos are always useful. You are right that the superb livery application by Farish really does lift the whole model; where it really suffers is of course below the running plate. In my eyes, at this angle and distance the body of the Farish model actually holds its own and I am surprised at how the separately fitted details on the Dapol's boiler are not all that evident. The naked "post" holding the Dapol's rear bogie to the chassis is also very visable in this view. Minor quibbles aside, this photo really makes clear just how superior the Dapol's chassis is to the older model and I am now reconsidering my decision not to spend all that money to upgrade. (Yeah, thanks Roy. Thanks A LOT. ) Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Hmmm... I'm wondering how hard it would be to bodge a longer cardan shaft to turn it into a W1. at least it's a plastic body... And that just leaves that odd trailing bogie... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 My A4 arrived today. Here are my thoughts: First impressions: The loco looks very attractive in it's case with a new Dapol all over blue sleeve over the clear plastic box. When this is removed the loco sits in it's plastic casing with grey foam packing pieces instead of the old yellow ones. The new packaging looks much more appealing than before and the loco within looks very impressive. What you get: Within the container is the loco itself, 2 sheets of information, 2 magnetic couplings, spare traction tyres, a bag of spares and detailing extras (including a spanner, spare cardan shaft, Dapol buckeys, screws, coupling, vac pipes etc). The loco is in a see through tray which is similar to the type Dapol have always used for steam locos. The loco has a packing piece on the chimney which just lifts off. Instructions: There is no advice to run the loco in (maybe this goes without saying now?) The loco needs to have it's motion oiled as per the diagrams, but does not need the gears oiled for another 30 hours. The instructions contain info about DC, DCC, controller types and the warning not to use an electronic track cleaner as discussed here before. Running the loco: After oiling as instructed the loco is placed on the track and a slight amount of power from a Gaugemaster controller is applied. The loco moves off steadily in both directions and nothing is out of place with the wheels or motion. The loco runs with no wobbles or stutters but does have a rattle to the sound of the mechanism. After running for approx 20 mins the temperature of the tender is checked. The sides are warm, but not hot. The complex valve gear runs well, though the crosshead moves in a slightly odd way over the slide bars. The slow speed is extremely slow and steady, but still noisy. A couple of my recent larger locos (Farish A1 and Dapol Brit) have a problem on my railway over a series of points and this loco stutters also, even though it has plenty of pickups. Everwhere else the pickups work perfectly. Loco livery and finish: The shade of green is maybe slightly light, but not by much. It is definitely lighter than the Farish A4 or A1 and a similar shade to my Ixion BR Manor. The finish is generally good. My only complaint about this would be that one of the handrails is cut off with an angle and the colour of the wire shows rather than the green of the handrail at the very tip. This is only noticable as it glints in the light but will be easily disguised by a dab of paint. The application of lining etc is excellent and there are no noticable glue marks. The nameplate is ok, but not the best quality. The whistle and safety valves are painted and I believe they are plastic rather than metal fittings, but this could be incorrect. Inside the cab, the detail and painting is excellent. Pulling ability: After about one hour of running-in I tested the pulling power of the loco; unbelievably powerful is all I can say at this point. The loco was pulling no less than a rake of 20 MK1s and Staniers around some tight curves straights and gentle curves and was showing no real signs of struggling. Only on my tightest curve did it slow slightly for a split second. I do have more coaches, but thought this would be long enough for anyone to get a good idea of its pulling power! Conclusion: The loco needs to be run in further and so a full conclusion cannot be reached as yet. I do not feel that the loco has the best possible finish, and the sound is quite unpleasant but overall it is a decent loco. The rattling sound is possibly partly caused by the need to have plenty of sideplay in the tender wheels. Possibly there is a fault with my loco and others are quieter than this or maybe it will quieten down with more running as my Brit has. Personally, I don't have any problems with any possible shape issues that have been raised, but this isn't a priority for me; to me the loco looks right. The power of this A4 is beyond dispute and is something I found very impressive. How does the mechanism compare to the Farish A1? The Farish loco does not have the power that this has, and I have had problems with pickup reliability and squeaking noises, but the Farish loco is a silent runner mechanism wise. In comparison to a Farish A4, the loco is a massive improvement in details, but maybe not so much in livery and finish. The Farish A4s can be made to run quietly and smoothly, but do not have the power of the Dapol loco. After further running the tender seems to be cooler to the touch. Although the instructions say the tender top is removed by simply unclipping, I cannot free it for the life of me! As a rating for now I would give it an overall 7/10, this may increase with more running in. Comparisons between a Farish A4 with improved bogie wheels and some detailing and the new Dapol A4 are shown here: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 After some extra running, the tender is only warm - never hot. The sound is slightly quieter since I put some Power Lube on the tender axles. One of the axles isn't as free as the others and clicks into one of two positions which is close to either axlebox. Update: The loco has now started to make screeching noises very much like the old pancake OO motors sometimes make when the motor bearing needs some oil. In the instructions we are told not to oil any part of the motor so this may have to go back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Try oiling the worm first, I had a screech from one of my Britannias that came from the loco- on my Britannia I used a long needle syringe to put a few drops there via the cab and that cured the screech.. If that doesn't quieten it then it sounds like a collapsed motor bearing which is a warranty replacement.. Shame that but makes an NQP for the next open day, perhaps..... All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I will try that thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 It is not the motor bearing as the sound is not present when the cardan shaft is removed. Does anyone know how to remove the loco body? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atso Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 If Dapol has used a similar design to the B1 you may find that the worm is not messing properly with the gear box. This should be a simple case of pushing the worm back into mesh, you'll see what I mean once you're inside! Worked for my B1... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 That's interesting and is definitely something to think about if there are any further issues. I did manage to get a tiny drop of oil onto the shaft behind where the cardan shaft goes in the loco. I used a bent wire to deposit the oil where the bearing would be and this seems to have cured the problem at the moment. I didn't have to remove the loco body for this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 That's interesting and is definitely something to think about if there are any further issues. I did manage to get a tiny drop of oil onto the shaft behind where the cardan shaft goes in the loco. I used a bent wire to deposit the oil where the bearing would be and this seems to have cured the problem at the moment. I didn't have to remove the loco body for this. Hi Elvinley By way of a comparison, my "Wild Swan" has had about four or five hours running so far and hasn't missed a beat. From the off it was not excessively noisy, admittedly it is not all but silent like the Farish tender-driven locos but it is certainly nowhere near as noisy as my Dapol B17 or Ixion Manor. This may suggest yours maybe could have some kind of issue with the meshing of gears as has been suggested? I would be interested to learn the experiences of others. Regards Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Mine is definitely quieter running backwards, but I've not yet oiled the worm bearings as I did with the Britannia. So far it has had the best part of an hour in each direction. It needs a bit more before I'm happy enough to proceed to the next stage which is renumbering, renaming and weathering it.... Oddly enough four of my B17s have been quite quiet, the other one not! Similarly most of the B1s (three for the layout and three rebuilt NQPs for onward sale as used) have been quiet, with just one noisy. One very quiet Britannia and one that was a screecher until the worm was oiled, five quiet 9Fs, a noisy Q1 and a smooth Hall and Manor complete the collection. They do have more places needing oiling to quieten them than Farish tender drives, though. All the very best Les . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Yes they do definitely vary a lot. My Brit is quiet now, but was loud to start with. My Hall is getting quieter and my Manors are pretty good too. Will just have to see how it pans out with the A4. I have 2 Q1s which are now very quiet as well after a lot of running. The older Dapol stuff was generally pretty quiet anyway. Did either of you manage to get the tender top off ok? I couldn't budge mine. Something not so quiet is one of my Farish A4s which I have just sound fitted: excuse the awful video quality. I put it down to excitement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQeJZ-oOG_k Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Tried the loco this morning and the screech is back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 Tried the loco this morning and the screech is back. Can I suggest that you contact DCC Supplies or BRLines under Dapol's 'no quibble' guarantee? - http://www.rmweb.co....month-warranty/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Hi Andy, That is an option. I have sent stuff to BR Lines before and there is usually a long wait to get stuff back. If I can remove the body and solve this with a drop of oil I would prefer to do that instead. The loco runs well and has plenty of power, it is just the noise issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Did either of you manage to get the tender top off ok? I couldn't budge mine. Something not so quiet is one of my Farish A4s which I have just sound fitted: excuse the awful video quality. I put it down to excitement. Hi Elvinley To be totally honest, as my layouts are non DCC and my A4 is running well I haven't had any need to even look to see how the tender body comes off. I hope you do get to the bottom of it without having to return it, I do tend to agree with Les, in my experience "screeching" generally means a lack of lubrication somewhere, and given your loco is so new hopefully nothing is excessively worn and if you can get to the worm gear you will be able to sort it. However if you cannot get it apart easily, rather than risk breaking something it may be better however frustrating it is to return it for replacement or repair. Cheers Roy P.S. Thanks for posting the clip of the sound fitted Farish A4 it sounds great and your layout looks excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thank you Roy. The sound started in an A3 I bought from Ebay. I'm not a fan of the Farish A3 so I swapped the cylinders, fitted an A4 body and modified the tender including the speaker, decoder and tender pickups and some real coal. The bogie wheels are from a recent Farish loco. It took the best part of yesterday to do and a lot of the hard work had already been done for me with the modified chassis. Sorry about the rubbish video quality, but you can at least get an idea of what's going on. I will take another look at the Dapol A4 later. I don't need to remove the tender body as this loco won't be DCC. I may try to get into the loco itself to oil the worm bearing. This obviously can't be reached by removing the keeper plate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperman Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Conclusion: Although the instructions say the tender top is removed by simply unclipping, I cannot free it for the life of me! Yes, I think the instructions are poor, giving no advice as to how to unclip the tender top safely. I asked about this further up the thread, with no reponse. I resorted to removing the tender from the loco completely to gain better access. Took forever to re-attach the tiny wires, and ended up breaking one. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I do wonder if anyone has managed to do this yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperman Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I do wonder if anyone has managed to do this yet? Yes, I did eventually get the tender top off, as I said by removing the tender from the loco, then pulling the top about until it came off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Crepello Posted April 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2012 The Railway Modeller review has highlighted the Cartazzi truck being angled; certainly Andy's photo of 60021 show this but 60017 looks ok. Anyone tackled this yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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