valeofyork Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Can anyone tell me when the next batch of A4s are likely to arrive in the shops? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Received 'Silver King' yesterday. I moved the loco about three inches to check it was taking power, before lubricating the motion with Dapoil. Ran at a moderate speed, light engine, for an hour, on a recent Gaugemaster controller. When I returned to it, it had slowed somewhat and the tender was very warm indeed. Do I keep running it with or without some oil on the worm, oil anything else (tender axles?) or stop? I was going to chip it as our first DCC loco when my SPROG arrives - but I am not sure if it is ready for that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Received 'Silver King' yesterday. I moved the loco about three inches to check it was taking power, before lubricating the motion with Dapoil. Ran at a moderate speed, light engine, for an hour, on a recent Gaugemaster controller. When I returned to it, it had slowed somewhat and the tender was very warm indeed. Do I keep running it with or without some oil on the worm, oil anything else (tender axles?) or stop? I was going to chip it as our first DCC loco when my SPROG arrives - but I am not sure if it is ready for that... You don't specify Feedback or non-feedback controller? If feedback, that is the most likely cause of the warming, if not, lightly oil the worm and run for half hour or so. If it still gets warm, there may be a motor issue worth getting your supplier to check it over... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Non feedback controller, so will try oiling the worm... ISTR one of my 'Britannias' had a silky smooth motor but a 'tight' drivetrain, come to think of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Received 'Silver King' yesterday. I moved the loco about three inches to check it was taking power, before lubricating the motion with Dapoil. Ran at a moderate speed, light engine, for an hour, on a recent Gaugemaster controller. When I returned to it, it had slowed somewhat and the tender was very warm indeed. Do I keep running it with or without some oil on the worm, oil anything else (tender axles?) or stop? I was going to chip it as our first DCC loco when my SPROG arrives - but I am not sure if it is ready for that... Send it back - sounds like classic symptom of the surging/overcurrent motor. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 This generic fault mode affects several of my Dapol locos. I have the problem that we have no permanent layout at the moment, neither time to play trains at length, but I have to buy things when they are available or else miss out on them! As such I have several locos which have let me down after very, very low mileages, but already out of warranty. I seem to be one of those people who are jinxed with Dapol purchases, but as I alluded to in my explanation of the fault, I have always been careful and methodical in oiling and following running-in instructions. This one was the last in stock at the retailer concerned, of this particular loco. I presume though that DCC Supplies will deal with it if it is returned. I will need to hang onto it for the moment so my son can at least unwrap it for his birthday first... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 This generic fault mode affects several of my Dapol locos. I have the problem that we have no permanent layout at the moment, neither time to play trains at length, but I have to buy things when they are available or else miss out on them! As such I have several locos which have let me down after very, very low mileages, but already out of warranty. I seem to be one of those people who are jinxed with Dapol purchases, but as I alluded to in my explanation of the fault, I have always been careful and methodical in oiling and following running-in instructions. This one was the last in stock at the retailer concerned, of this particular loco. I presume though that DCC Supplies will deal with it if it is returned. I will need to hang onto it for the moment so my son can at least unwrap it for his birthday first... Worth getting it fixed promptly - the overheating and overcurrent of the motor (causing the slowing and heating you describe) will really shorten the motor's lifespan. Seems to be to do with clogging up of the commutator or possibly something to do with the commutator assembly such that you get a partial short across it, meaning the current consumption doubles or worse (so the power dissipated as heat goes up by 4) and the motor slows as a significant part of the current doesn't now make its way around the coils. If the commutators were more accessible on these motors I think it'd be a problem that'd be fixable more easily, but DCC supplies should fix as you say - just make sure you don't miss the end of the warranty date or you'll have to pay for repair. And I hope your son isn't disappointed that it'll have to go back!! Best, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Thank you, Alan. That certainly aids my understanding. Unfortunately this is not the first time this has happened to my lad. His Christmas present was a Farish 66 which had split gears on arrival! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I can scarcely believe it. The loco was given to my son today, I put it on the track and after 10 mins of running, the screw in the big end worked itself out and the valve gear collapsed. Very frustrating indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 If you mean the central crank pin on the valve gear, you should be able to reattach this with the hex tool in the box - they are designed to come off so the rear drivers can have their traction tyres replaced in the future if so needed. Maybe this one was never fully tight in the first place... Cheers,Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Unfortunately, Al, the crosshead had dislodged itself before my son could bring the train to a stand. Given the overheating issue as well, the well-known northern retailer has kindly arranged a replacement, which we await with interest. My lad was really rather upset, and insisted on bidding the engine goodbye in the post office! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlink Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet but both locos have got the wrong type of tender fitted! Both locos should be fitted with a Streamline corridor type not the ex A3 type as shown in Andy's pictures, Silver Fox ran with a streamlined corridor its entire life and although Wild Swan ran with a non-corridor for quite a long time as modelled here by Dapol it too should be fitted with a streamline corridor type. The difference is ex A3 has a flat back where the corridor connection is plus beading on front edge and along sides where the top curve starts also across the rear on top as can be seen in the pictures. Streamline type has totally smooth sides and curves out to corridor connection from rear edge. Yet again a major error from one of the big manufactures, most of Bachmann tenders are completely wrong and although Hornby do make all three A4 tenders very well even they fit wrong tenders to locos (latest Dominion Of New Zealand has non-corridor which it never ran with through its entire lifetime) Dapol look to have made a really nice model but why spoil it for a little more research. Ian H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet but both locos have got the wrong type of tender fitted! Both locos should be fitted with a Streamline corridor type not the ex A3 type as shown in Andy's pictures, Silver Fox ran with a streamlined corridor its entire life and although Wild Swan ran with a non-corridor for quite a long time as modelled here by Dapol it too should be fitted with a streamline corridor type. The difference is ex A3 has a flat back where the corridor connection is plus beading on front edge and along sides where the top curve starts also across the rear on top as can be seen in the pictures. Streamline type has totally smooth sides and curves out to corridor connection from rear edge. Yet again a major error from one of the big manufactures, most of Bachmann tenders are completely wrong and although Hornby do make all three A4 tenders very well even they fit wrong tenders to locos (latest Dominion Of New Zealand has non-corridor which it never ran with through its entire lifetime) Dapol look to have made a really nice model but why spoil it for a little more research. Ian H I could be wrong, but I think they've all got the 1928 beaded corridor tenders. Cost saving I suppose, but still a vast improvement over the Farish one imho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 It has been said before, but I'll say it again. It was NOT research but cost! Tooling ran to three tenders between the A3 and the A4- only one corridoor type. Only one high-sided type and the GNR type. Given the quoted number of grand to tool each of the other two types as well, would anyone be prepared to pay an extra twenty-to-thirty quid a loco for the correct corridoor tender? Remember that all versions of the A4 produced so far only amount to a production of about the size at Hattons Limited Edition OO Beyer Garratt. All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 [edit] Given the quoted number of grand to tool each of the other two types as well, would anyone be prepared to pay an extra twenty-to-thirty quid a loco for the correct corridoor tender? [edit] In a word: No. In more than one one word: I don't think the model is spoilt one bit by the tender. My nit-pick with this model is the odd post that attaches the rear bogie to the chassis. Given the vast improvement over the old Farish A4 in all other respects, this is just a quibble. I have a Dapol A3 (Rails had a few on sale for less than £80 back in January) and it is my favorite and best running model steamer I have - and I have quite a few. But given 1.) the mixed reports about A4 QC, 2.) the many new models now available but a pocketbook that can't afford them all, and 3.) the fact despite its deficiencies, I'm rather fond of my Bachmann/Farish Mallard of 2004/05 vintage - I haven't yet gotten a Dapol A4. But someday. Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I am rapidly joining the 'disgruntled with Dapol' group. Our replacement A4 has just arrived (new stock from Dapol as ours was the retailer's last) and it's rubbish as well. Can't pinpoint what is cock-eyed but both engine and tender have a distinct 'limp' to them. That aside, after five minutes of running in, it started to stop, or suddenly run slowly, sometimes making a clicking noise. It makes a hell of a din as well. The driveshaft appears to be properly engaged, though, and I cannot detect it slipping or flailing around (as has happened with a previous 'Brit') All I have done is carefully remove the packaging, place a drop of Dapoil on every part indicated on the diagram, and put it on my test track, which a Farish 'Black Five' had hitherto been merrily lapping this morning. The only Dapol steam loco I have not had problems with is a 'Britannia' bought off the returns pile on the Dapol stand at an exhibition. I am forming the opinion that you do not open the box expecting the loco to work but rather that someone is going to have to immediately have it to bits to fettle it before it will do the business - ironically, buying one that someone has already returned might achieve that! Having had to deal with the first one self-destructing on his birthday, I now have to explain to my little boy why two weeks later, after a morning spent waiting in for the parcel to arrive today, we have another 'Sliver King' which fails to do what it says on the tin. Never mind him, I could cry! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Running in update... I have continued to run the loco and over the past hour or so it has quietened down dramatically. The issues with slowing and clicking have disappeared. A previous poster in this thread made reference to the tender wheelsets being noisy. Much of the noise was rattly in nature; looking underneath with the intention of oiling the bearings, it became apparent to me that the axles rub very slightly on the 'keeper plate' above them - to the point that the 'Dapol' branding on the underside of the tender was coming off onto the second tender axle. A little oil (applied with a pin) on each axle seems to have made the world of difference to the running. The tender still 'hunts', and the loco has a wobble noticeable at both ends (the cab and the front pony truck both oscillate) but no worse now than certain other locos from both major manufacturers. Assuming the model does not run as hot has its predecessor (so far so good) I might yet grudgingly accept it - but it still doesn't seem right to have had so much bother... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Sounds typical of these. I had to do significant work to get them to run reliably and quietly (see back in the thread). Not convinced by the pickup design... Click is probably something catching on the valve gear. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I don't have an A4 but do have an A3 that has a similar chassis and with regard to the "click," my A3 had the same. After considerable running in and appropriate oiling the click went away. I suggest you just let your boy's A4 just run in for a good long while. Given that it hasn't already fallen apart like the first one, I think this loco will eventually loosen up and will turn into a good runner. But I agree it is a lot of bother. I don't have many Dapol steam locos but all of the ones I do have have been extremely "stiff" and poor running right out of the box. But they have all settled down with use and are as good if not better than my Farish steamers now, apart from being noisier. Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 A final word from me, I anticipate! Having got the loco running passably on DC, after further oiling and mileage accumulation, I managed to get a Bachmann 6-pin into it (only just went in!) - my conclusion matches the good Doctor's - pick-up is certainly not as good as it might be... All in all another loco which looks nice but which I will not likely be in a great hurry to select from the stock box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I bought two of the wartime black A4s at TINGS and both are now at DCC Supplies for valve gear that has fallen apart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 Just seen a Dapol advert with a post war Mallard in Garter Blue sadly never carried until BR days so livery is wrong (for your info) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 my conclusion matches the good Doctor's - pick-up is certainly not as good as it might be... Add weight to the tender (there should still be a triangular wedge of space behind the decoder, and a small amount above the motor in the coal space). Also consider adding pickups to the rear bogie - I've done this to all my A3s and A4s and it's really improved them significantly. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hayes Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Dr Al I would like to see photos of your upgraded farish loco as in your profile picture. it looks cracking. Cheers Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Hi Rob, Don't have any other than the avatar online right now, but my W1 is very similar in the detailing I've done: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/16064-w1quick2jpg/ Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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