A4 Dapol A4 streaks in.

[DapolDave]

Hi chaps,

 

For all the 'yes it looks ok', and the 'no it doesnt' comments can i suggest actually seeing one in the flesh before negative comments?

After all its been visible in the flesh at shows and in the press since its unveiling last October, and no one has commented adversly in that time.

 

I'm biased of course, but i'd suggest looking before castigating.

cheers

Dave

[queensquare]

I saw a couple at the weekend and have to say I thought they looked very good - now get on with those West Countries Dave!

 

Jerry

[PLD]

I'm not particularly an LNER expert, but having seen/handled one, the only bit that jars for me and really does look wrong is the gap between the cylinder and the wrapper part of the valence (outlined in yellow). on the real thing the wrapper continues around the bottom of the cylinder in a smooth curve.

I appreciate this may be an 'engineering copromise' to enable the body to be removed from the chassis and (possibly?) use of the cylinder moulding intended for the A3, but doing this is I think what makes the cylinders appear so low slung...

 

I suspect a bit of filling and filing here might make a big difference to the appearance.

[Zunnan]

Having been to look at one in the flesh, rather than judging from online pictures, what is that far out is how high the front end of the model is mounted to the chassis. This also has the effect of siting the slide bar too low and makes the entire motion look a little odd when its running thanks to the out of position connecting rod and the way it interacts with the return crank. I'm not paying upwards of £100 for a class of locomotive I'll never need just to take a photo, but look at the buffers in relation to the front coupling and then look at almost every other N Gauge model, compare with with Dapols own B1 for an unbiased example. When offered up to a square, the firebox casing clearly slopes downward from the cab and then begins to taper from the dome where the prototype casing is near parallel as far as the dome from where the front taper begins, this shows up the mismatched mounting, and also shows that the chimney is low in relation to the roofline. I'm no A4 expert, but isn't the chimney of an A4 supposed to be at the limit of its loading gauge (the same height as the casing apex at the rear of the firebox?), it isn't on the model. With the Dapol A4 tilted up at the front end by 1.9mm the firebox casing becomes parallel with the rail, and the chimney is very close to being where it should be, but the cab then reclines and the running plate then seems to be rather high over the cylinders with not enough casing between running plate and chimney when compared with a scale drawing.

 

Yes, its a beautiful model, but it has flaws that rear up when you look closer and when you run it. And because the dome 'hump' is reduced by the way the body is mounted, to me it looks wrong at normal viewing distance where half of the finer detail can't be seen. It looks like its running in dragster mode with its arse in the air and nose to the ground, thats the best way to describe what I'm seeing. Even so, it blows the old Poole model away.

[Rob Hayes]

people are right it does look a bit funny when scrutinised intensely however do does any model no matter how good it is. (most the time anyhow) but it is in n gauge, and for me id give it 20 out of 10, but even in this day and age in n gauge compromises sometimes have to be made.

 

im sure it would be possible to make an a4 to a much more perfect standard in n gauge however the price would rise significantly,

 

thats were the "modeller" aspect comes into it, as an aviation modeller too i see that more and more over the years the "modeling" aspect is diminishing with the amount of rtr stuff (and no complaints at all there!

 

but it would be good to see more focus on kit building of locos in the hobby, i really want ago but dont know were to get started as im finding it hard to find much information about it, and hardly any coverage in magazines.

 

rather than get angry at an inacuracy i get a kick from modifying it myself thats were the "joy" is in "modelling"

 

i guess if you want a perfect a4 golden age models is the way to go.

 

all id say on this subject is this. if modellers in the 70s and 80s were given this a4 then i dont think you would hear anyone complain.

 

me for one not at all. cant wait to get my hands on all of them. especially the limited mallard in br blue

[Rob Hayes]

i think Dapol daves played a blinder look at this photoshop i done of the real and Dapol loco.

[Seanem44]

Come on now. This is really getting tit-for-tat. It's a 2mm scale model. It's not going to be perfect. If it was, I'd expect we would be shelling out double the cost. Is the rivet counting really neccessary? If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't ruin it for the blissfully ignorant of us who plan to.

[Rob Hayes]

Come on now. This is really getting tit-for-tat. It's a 2mm scale model. It's not going to be perfect. If it was, I'd expect we would be shelling out double the cost. Is the rivet counting really neccessary? If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't ruin it for the blissfully ignorant of us who plan to.

 

well ill be definatly buying it, thats my point look at the photo looks great, and also to prove that no matter how perfect it is when scaled to life size you can see will never be real, so just enjoy it, and if you dont, well model it to your liking, its a personal think, no one can spoil it for someone else. were all unified by our love of trains whatever our take on it.

modeling is art. you could both be modeling the same loco railway whatever, but your own tastes and styles and interpretations will be different are you a rembrant, constable, picaso, or yourself, who cares as long as you love it, were all modellers together and the diversety of us all and the models is what makes it exciting,

 

i mean whats not to like. (except for short circuits, problem trackwork, and derailments) haha!

[Roy L S]

The only issue that jumps out at me is from sac martins picture above, the middle driving wheel is not in the same position of revolution as the other two, look at the balance weights and the three are not at the same point which looks very odd!

 

Cheers, Richard

 

Hi Richard

 

Could be wrong but I'm not sure the balance weight would necessarily be in the same position relative to the other two, as not only does it have to balance out the rods and valve gear of the middle axle but the crank driven off the centre cylinder too.

 

Regards

 

Roy.

[Roy L S]

Hi Richard

 

Could be wrong but I'm not sure the balance weight would necessarily be in the same position relative to the other two, as not only does it have to balance out the rods and valve gear of the middle axle but the crank driven off the centre cylinder too.

 

Regards

 

Roy.

 

In fact if you look at the pics above you can make out Bittern's centre Driver and to me it looks like Dapol have it spot on.

 

Roy

 

P.S. I have been running my "Wild Swan" for a while now and have to say it is a very good runner indeed to add ti it's excellent looks and detail (comments above notwithstanding). I was worried that the motor was getting slightly warm at first, but even after extended running, slightly warm is all it does get,

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

Interesting thread. I am not a steam enthusiast but I do like to model the current scene, and as such I have a Farish Tornado and am certainly interested in the possibility of acquiring a Dapol "Bittern" or "Dominion of New Zealand" (cough) if at some point they produce them.

 

Am I interested in the opinions of those who are more familiar with the Class than I am? Absolutely.

 

Do I agree with them? Well, where supported by clear photographic evidence (such as the photo showing where the valance should curve below the cylinders) - Yes.

 

Will any of this stop me buying the model? No. I will make my own decision when I see it in the shop, and decide if it works for me. It certainly looks streaks (ahem) ahead of the Farish model which I have never had the urge to own, however the final decision will be made only when I see it in front of me. At Model Rail I have occasionally been in the studio when models are photographed, and I know that even the best photographs struggle to capture the true appeal of a model when seen "in the plastic."

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[S.A.C Martin]

As it should be Ben.

 

But I fear - on this occasion - that a rather superb model is being downplayed in favour of a model which frankly doesn't pass muster these days.

 

I just look at the Dapol A4 from the front and wonder why the hell I am bothering with OO gauge. With models of this quality I could run full length, authentic looking trains!

[DaveArkley]

As it should be Ben.

 

But I fear - on this occasion - that a rather superb model is being downplayed in favour of a model which frankly doesn't pass muster these days.

 

I just look at the Dapol A4 from the front and wonder why the hell I am bothering with OO gauge. With models of this quality I could run full length, authentic looking trains!

 

100% Agreed, I am running a full length 'Waverley' with Wild Swan at the front and 9 of the Farish Mk1 coaches (including the excellent new BGs) behind and it looks superb. Is it completely accurate? I don't care because from normal viewing distance it looks more like a real train than any other model train I've seen running.

 

IMHO Dapol and Farish have done excellent jobs - I saw all this kit in the flesh at exhibitions and bought on that basis. Wild Swan replaces a Farish A4 and frankly there is little comparison, the Dapol is an order of magnitude better.

 

Of course you may disagree, but I have to say I'm disappointed that nit pickers are writing this superb model off.

 

* Edited for spelling

[Pennine MC]

From Ben A, above:

 

 

Am I interested in the opinions of those who are more familiar with the Class than I am? Absolutely.

 

Do I agree with them? Well, where supported by clear photographic evidence (such as the photo showing where the valance should curve below the cylinders) - Yes.

 

Will any of this stop me buying the model? No. I will make my own decision when I see it in the shop, and decide if it works for me.

 

From a moderator on another forum:

 

In my case, it's 'ignorance is bliss'. If it looks like an A4 it is an A4

I don't have the knowledge to spot such mistakes, so would just say it's an improvement on the last Farish offering. I don't intend to get an A4 of any sort, and can appreciate that to those who know it must be very disappointing that the homework hasn't been done properly/compromise made.

 

Neither feel any need to make disparaging comment about nitpicking or rivet counting, and both shine out IMHO with their balance, objectivity and most of all, tolerance for wiser counsels. Why is that so hard to achieve?

[Rob Hayes]

takes all sorts to make a world. thing is its not like anyone is forceing anyone to buy it.

Dapol dave make em in every livery for every number ill buy the lot if i can.

 

id love to see a streamlined b17 to go with it. the cute 460 a4ish looking locos.

[Stu from EGDL]

Hi Guys;

 

To me it looks nothing like a Class 27!!!

 

Later;

STU from EGDL

[Bomag]

I received my Silver Fox and was looking forward to test running it. luckily I read the accompanying bumf before taking it out of its box as it seems that Dapol are now incapable of manufacturing locos which can work with electronic track cleaners.

 

I assume this is because of cheap or limited spec components; although the cynical may think it's a ploy to sell track cleaners. So the engine will be going back to Hatton's under DSR and my Minitrix Mallard and GF Union will solider on.

 

Have I missed an announcement on the Dapol website or have Dapol kept quiet about this problem?

[romley midland]

 

 

Hi Richard

 

Could be wrong but I'm not sure the balance weight would necessarily be in the same position relative to the other two, as not only does it have to balance out the rods and valve gear of the middle axle but the crank driven off the centre cylinder too.

 

Regards

 

Roy.

 

Cheers Roy, good to see they have got it right then, I often noticed features that aren't so pleasing to the eye but don't relate these features to the prototype and the fact that they actually where designed like that for a purpose and it wasn't just about good looks!

 

Thankfully my wallet is safe as these don't fit into my modelling scope but I'm looking forward to a couple of A3's!

 

Cheers, Richard

[S.A.C Martin]

I received my Silver Fox and was looking forward to test running it. luckily I read the accompanying bumf before taking it out of its box as it seems that Dapol are now incapable of manufacturing locos which can work with electronic track cleaners.

 

I assume this is because of cheap or limited spec components; although the cynical may think it's a ploy to sell track cleaners. So the engine will be going back to Hatton's under DSR and my Minitrix Mallard and GF Union will solider on.

 

Have I missed an announcement on the Dapol website or have Dapol kept quiet about this problem?

 

Maybe I have missed the point, but how does it not being compatible with electronic track cleaners, prevent it from working perfectly well when said track cleaner is not in use?

[Elvinley]

I have built a switch into my Gaugemaster track cleaner as I run a Peco Collett and am awaiting the new coreless Farish locos. I can keep it switched-in most of the time.

 

The comment about the A4 not getting too hot is reassuring. Hope this is the case for them all. I am very tempted to try one of these as I am a big fan of the A4. My Brit is a reasonable runner nowadays and has quietened down a lot, but this has taken hours on end to achieve. It is not happy with any irregularities in trackwork even though it has so many pickups.

 

I think the lack of curve on the bottom of the cylinders on the A4 are a compromise to aid removal of the body. With the Farish A4 the cylinder casing is separate to the body. To my eyes the loco still looks great; not to the standards of the Farish A1 in finish quality, but still excellent.

[DapolDave]

Hi Bomag,

 

In the 5 years that i have been here we have always told customers not to use electronic track cleaners with our products.

 

We havnt until now actually put this in our instructions but believe me i have personally told many, many customers.

 

I dont know of many people now that would recommend them with modern build locomotives and even fewer perhaps with N gauge in General.

There are pro's and cons of course and no doubt there are those on here that fall into either camp.

 

However, our camp is firmly in the cons, and as company policy we do not recommend them at all with out products.

This is not to say you cannot use them, as this of course is your choice, we just ask that if you do you just have them switched out for Dapol related items.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Dave

[Dr Al]

But I fear - on this occasion - that a rather superb model is being downplayed in favour of a model which frankly doesn't pass muster these days.

 

It's worth re-reading as at no point did I say the Farish model is universally better - only that *aspects* of it appear better with regards the body/front end shape/cylinders. As such posts are being taken out of context. Pretty much everything else on the Dapol model is in a different league, as I've already said.

 

I do strongly believe the Dapol model body shape is incorrect though, and nothing has been presented that disproves this to my viewing eye so far. As such already owning several heavily upgraded Farish models (err, precisely because they aren't that good in SO many areas) I now struggle to justify spending a fair amount of money on exchanging for Dapols only to feel I'd want to do a similarly large amount of work on them. Whilst this is a personal opinion, I would hope that we strive for neverending improvement and as such I would hope Dapol consider revisiting this model and addressing some of the areas that have been questioned...

 

...because they will likely have to if they want to do a valanced version.

 

As for my A4 money? Well that's already been spent onf a Dapol Manor now, so they shouldn't feel too miffed....

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Bernard Lamb]

I received my Silver Fox and was looking forward to test running it. luckily I read the accompanying bumf before taking it out of its box as it seems that Dapol are now incapable of manufacturing locos which can work with electronic track cleaners.

 

I assume this is because of cheap or limited spec components; although the cynical may think it's a ploy to sell track cleaners. So the engine will be going back to Hatton's under DSR and my Minitrix Mallard and GF Union will solider on.

 

Have I missed an announcement on the Dapol website or have Dapol kept quiet about this problem?

 

As a total outsider as far as N Gauge is concerned that does seem to be a rather unfair comment.

Emotive words like cheap, limited spec and problem are not exactly constructive.

Did not the suppliers of the most expensive, and for many years what was regarded as the best motor on the market for a range of scales, state that it was not to be used with electronic track cleaners?

As for the model it looks far better than any thing I have seen in the scale and the thought of being able to run full length trains does excite the odd brain cell.

Bernard

[Andy Y]

I'm actually getting to the point where I find the negative mindset of some in this topic quite tiring; it's not about factual analysis, it seems to be more about opinions and mindsets.

[Revolution Mike]

it seems that Dapol are now incapable of manufacturing locos which can work with electronic track cleaners.

 

Does it actually say it won't run with electronic track cleaner or it is not recommended?

 

Either way I would agree entirely with Dapol's stance - electronic track cleaners are fairly horrible crude solutions. Modern locos contain more electronic wizardry that is at risk of damage from such track cleaners.

 

I am with Pennine on this one (and we have done this debate to death on here) - it seems that some people still refuse to accept that it is possible to note that something looks out of place without being derisively accused of rivet counting.