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N15class

N15class's 2012 Challenge, Push Pull Trailer third.

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Right where do we start and what do we do?

 

I will be making a model for my own stock list. It is going to be something completly different for me. I will make either a 4 or 6 wheel brake van or a Pull Push gate stock coach. Both of these will be of LSWR. I have a driving coach kit so it looks like it will have to be a trailing coach.

 

I will start looking at plans over the weekend.

 

Hopefully there will be more to this thread than this opening page. I must say this is really going to be a great challenge, for me on two fronts, one the building and secondly, being organised enough to get any parts I need on time.

Edited by N15class
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Good luck with this, sounds like a great idea and something you can use and be proud of, regards Glenn

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Can somebody get the men in white coats please!!!

 

Well? What am I thinking here? Why not choose a nice 4 wheel van, no me mouth works then the brain thinks about it. Looked at what I can do, no nice 4 or 6 wheeled full brakes, do not have the drawings with me.

 

So what do I have? Well I have a Cameo LSWR gated brake third. A very basic plastic kit. Now this needs a gated trailer third, the scratch built part. So not only do I have to scratch build a coach I also have a body line kit that is paramount to scratch building too.

 

Here is a plan of the two. The upper one is the Cameo kit and the lower is to be scratch built. Do you ever get the feeling of pending unfinished DOOM?

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As the weekend is difficult to do any model making. I thought I would check to see if I have enough stuff to even go on with the build. Good news I I have enough plastic card in A3 sheets. 10 thou for the beading, 20 thou for the sides, and thicker floor, partitions and packers etc. I have some cast torpedo vents. Also have some brass angle for underframe. I also hve some brake cylinders but no dynamo. I will have to make one. The major problem is I have no Bogies, Where can I get light wieght 8 foot fox bogies.

I am quite happy with doing the build. Just got to think about the roof, as it is a semi eliptical one. But there is time to figure this out.

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I managed to get a little time to myself today. So I made a start with this project. I have marked out the panelling on a sheet of 10 thou plastic. Is only 336mm long.Which makesmy little Pull Push train about 700mm long plus an engine, not much longer if any than an express loco with 2 coaches in 4mm scale.

I will only cut out the panelling I will leave the windows until it is on the side, then both bits can be cut as one. I will look into making some punches for the corners of the beading. If it works I think it will look better than filing.

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Now to draw up the panelling for the ends. With this one each end isdifferent, the adjoining end has a narrow gangway and the loco end is plain.

 

I also have to decide if I make the whole thing with 3 wire control or as the 1930 rebuilt ones in with air control. I like the older driving end, but in reality the period I model it should be air control.

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I decided I ought to make a trial piece to try a couple of ideas out. So I did a short section full height my thinking here is I can use it as I build to check that things will work.

 

I cut the panelling out of 10 thou plastic I left the windows uncut I made a punch from brass tube for the corners, I am unsure if it is best to cut out the panel ieaving a bit in the corner or to punch the corners then cut the panel. This was then glued to a piece of 20 thou. when all had set I cut out the main window. this worked well, as it left some strength in the fret. I cut out the top ventilators But I am not happy with their look. I know what needs to be done on the carriage though. There is a flat bolection around the window, which I did in 20 thou. agian not as happy with it as I shoukd be, I think itis down to corner radius. I will make it larger on the coach.

 

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Like the plan so far Peter, l will be watching this one grow, great stuff so far..........

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Here we go, I decided to start with the two ends as it is not so costly in time if I make a b**ls up of it. They still need the outside cutting to shape but I wanted the glue to reall set well before I did that. There is a bit more tidying up to do,I think they look OK, the photos show up far more than I can see. They are in reality only 60mm square.

 

I have made these from 10 thou beading and 30 backing. I am thinking now that the sides should be 10 thou beading and 30 or 40 thou backing. There would then be some packers to get the shape of the side right and a 40 thou inner side. Any help would be appreciated, I have only done this in 4mm scale before. I am aiming to have the glazing is slot either fromm the ends with the ends fitted after glazing, or from the top with the roof fitting afterward, all depends on what I can do with the roof.

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Still very aprehensive about doing the sides as it is a lot of work if I err..

 

I have to order some more plastic card I have not got enough of the thicker boards, hopefully that will not hold me up. I think the sides will take a while to get right.

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Hi Brian -

 

Another advantage in doing the ends first - you'll be able to accuratley measure the side hieght with relation to the tumblehome. Also (and not teaching you to suck eggs!) 'little & often' when cutting out small holes in plastikard and don't be tempted to try & 'pop' them out 'cos it will tear.

 

When dealing with 10 thou you might want to look at the properties of 'limonene' adhesives - it is a solvent but not so 'fierce' as Mekpak etc.

 

 

Regs

 

Ian

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Hi Brian -

 

Another advantage in doing the ends first - you'll be able to accuratley measure the side hieght with relation to the tumblehome. Also (and not teaching you to suck eggs!) 'little & often' when cutting out small holes in plastikard and don't be tempted to try & 'pop' them out 'cos it will tear.

 

When dealing with 10 thou you might want to look at the properties of 'limonene' adhesives - it is a solvent but not so 'fierce' as Mekpak etc.

 

 

Regs

 

Ian

It is easy for me to take care and time over this, mainly because I do this one while my wife is around, so there are lots of breaks an short bursts of activity.

I have heard of this 'limonene' I have no idea of what it is, or whether I can get an equivilant here in Brazil. I found with the ends it was best to get the bottom straight thenleave toset for a while, then the rest went down OK then I lft them under one of my wifes law books over night. seemed to stay nice an flat that way.

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snip...OK then I lft them under one of my wifes law books over night. seemed to stay nice an flat that way.

 

So you might say they felt the 'full weight fo the law' then! (I know - bad joke!)

 

Limonene is a form of solvent - it's used by (particularly) model aircraft makers where structural parts are made from high density polyurethane foam. 'Limiene' is a generic name - you'll have to google it to find a local equivalent. Mines called 'Foam2Foam' marketed by Deluxe Materials. I use it sparingly (at £7.50 for 50ml I don't bath in it!)

 

Regs

 

Ian

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I will have a look and see what I can come up with over here, thanks

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While the wife is out lunching with the girls, Peter will play.

 

I have cut ou the panelling for one side. I am really happy with the way it cut out, far neater than I was expecting. I have cut out the top lights deeper than they actually are, there is a little ressessed bit underneath them so when I add the side proper I will cut out them out leaving about 1mm of flat be before the top of the window beading. I am looking forward to getting the other one done, and then mounting them. on the sides proper. They will have the main windows out, and they will be cut to height and length.

 

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Now on with the second one.

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This looks very good. Much impressed by the neatness. Like you I would have thought it would be hard to get it this good. But then it also depends on the modeller doing it :-)

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This looks very good. Much impressed by the neatness. Like you I would have thought it would be hard to get it this good. But then it also depends on the modeller doing it :-)

 

Thanks Mikkel

The second one came out OK too. Hopefully I will not mess them up attaching them to the sides.

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Today we have the fixed the overlays to the sides. They are now residing under heavy books. I only need to cut out the windows add the bolections, and add them to the innersides which need designing and making. I need to do some sanding to get rid of a few marks and tidy up the beading a bit more. Where do you stop? I do not think they will ever be perfect but I want them as close as I can otherwise I think the lining will look odd.

 

Here are tonights photos first is the matching sides.

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Next a closer shot of the sides.

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And finally all the bits so far.

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The ends need a balancing piece of 10 though on the inside as they have dished slightly.

 

Things will slow up now for a while as the next few bits are on the tricky side.

 

I will also get the driving third up to the same standard soon too.

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Here is the next part of the construction. I have cut the windows out on one side. My little punch did not like me using 30 thou for the sides rather than the 20 I was going to, the thicker sheet has given the side more stability. We got them cut out in the end, and had to stick a few odd bits of beading I had missed.

 

I sanded the beading at this time mainly to try and lose the square edges. It is better, but I think there is still room for improvement, I am sort of hoping that this will happen as I go along with the coach.

 

I also added the bolections to the windows, fortunatly on this coach it is not a fancy moulding, so I simply cut some 20 thou and lined each of the main windows with it.

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I hate these closeups, they make the work look so tatty.

 

I have now placed my order with Roxey for the light weight Fox bogies and the sprung buffers for this coach. I will order the bogies and buffers for the the driving coach later. I do it this way because low value packets do not incur the 60% import duty, so the two lots of postage is actually a big saving. I have also ordered a dozen sheets of A3 plasticard in varying thicknesses. I needed thicker bits for spacers and floor etc.

 

Now lets get remotivated and get the other side done. Just wish I had in my head what to do next with the inner sides and tumblehomes.

Edited by N15class
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looking good Peter, I keep thinking that I may have a go at scratch building a GCR Bogie Fish van in Plasticard. Seeing what you are doing here is rekindling the interest.

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looking good Peter, I keep thinking that I may have a go at scratch building a GCR Bogie Fish van in Plasticard. Seeing what you are doing here is rekindling the interest.

 

This is an experiment for me. I build some 4mm scale coaches the way I am going to build this one. I ahve used thicker card because of the increase in size. I have no idea if it will work. I am still thinking of how the hell I can do the roof. In 4mm I used Roxey ones I think.

 

If it does work I fancy 4 coache set of low windowed Maunsell's. No panelling on those. I have a a brass one to do but you cant by them anymore, plus I am not that wealthy.

 

Also trying to do the Highfield driving coach will be a challenge.

 

At least at the end of this you will see if it is worth trying.

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The second side has had all the windows cut out, I have made up an inner side. It is a full height piece ofo 30 thoh as the inside. I then cut a piece of 40 thou and this was glued on 5mm from the bottom edge. I then cut two strips of 39 thou one of these were gglued at waist height and cantrail height. This gave me a slot for the glazing. The glazing will sit about a millimetre larger top and bottom of the widow. The bottom edge of the 49 thou was then chamfered to help form the tumblehome.

 

I used to do this with my 4mm coaches. the glazing slides in from the end when painted and then the carriageen id fitted. Hoping it works in the bigger scale.

 

Now for the moment of truth fixing the two bits together. I will do the second side once I know it will work. and the shape looks right. I am also hoping I can cut the inner windows outeasily after it has been glued together, as it is a nightmare trying to get them all lined up.

 

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Here is the latest update. I have managed to glue both sides together, so we now have a better idea about how it look. I am please with how straight they are just hope they stay that way. I now need to cut out the inner window openings. I like this method of construction because the inside of the coach is square. Which makes partitions and inner ends all easy to cut and assemble.The sides are 3.5mm thick at the top, which I do not think is much more than the real thing would me.

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In the photos you can see the space behind the outer side for the glazing, this is 30 thou, but the glazing will be 20 thou, I have done this to give mea chance to get it in there. I am now waiting for some 60 thou to maje the floor and then I can make up the basic box. In the mean time I think I can get on with the seats and underframe details. I will also be able to give the roof some serious thought. Any ideas???

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That's some superb panelling Peter!

Having tried it myself I know how difficult and painstaking it is to produce round-cornered panelling by this method.

And how easy it is to make a ghastly mess with some stray solvent!

Cheers,

Dave.T

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That's some superb panelling Peter!

Having tried it myself I know how difficult and painstaking it is to produce round-cornered panelling by this method.

And how easy it is to make a ghastly mess with some stray solvent!

Cheers,

Dave.T

Thanks. I have a good supply of wet and dry. I am more worried about the stray slipping knife cutting through what has already been done.

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I will also be able to give the roof some serious thought. Any ideas???

Hmm, never done a semi-elliptical roof myself; I know David Jenkinson used to get long strips of timber moulding machined to shape, but he was building whole rakes of coaches at a time.

 

My normal method is is lots of plasticard profile formers, with a pre-curved length of 20thou plasticard secured to them. Not sure how practical this is in 7mm standard gauge, or for semi-elliptical.

How about this method for the flatter centre, and solid plastic strip filed to shape for the edges? Or solid balsa-wood sanded to shape and covered in thin card?

 

Not sure if any of this helps at all.....

Cheers, Dave.

 

PS Glad to see you are a Canon man!

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