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After reviewing my ten plus year old models for the buildings at Middleton-In-Teesdale I will tentatively announce my intention to build a model of the box at Middleton-In-Teesdale. My only plan at the moment is from the Ken Hoole book NER Branchline Termini so there's some digging to be done. But, encouragingly it looks as though there may be some identical (or nearly so) survivors, though derelict. A quick google found this picture online

http://www.disused-s...le/index8.shtml

middleton%28rl3.1963%29old6.jpg

 

This derelict box at Broomilaw (picture from the RMWeb Archived site) appears to be a mirror image

 

BroomielawSB_Q2X9474.JPG

 

Though perhaps a little shorter? Worth a site visit I hope.

 

Watch this space (patiently!)

Edited by Rumblestripe
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I modelled most of the Middleton buildings for my layout 'Teesdale'. See my Teesdale thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50847-teesdale/page__fromsearch__1.

The signal nox was one of the last to be done. I got as far as the basic structure and etched a set of windows for this and also the fancy barge boards used by the S&D. These are not yet fitted in the photo below. Ideas changed and it was never completed. Like you I used Ken Hoole's book. He has some of my photos in that. I have some spare etches somewhere if they are of interest to you. If the model looks high it is because it was to be 'planted' in the scenery.

 

post-6751-0-11699400-1331938892_thumb.jpg

 

I have a good collection of photos of Middleton. Send me a PM if you want to know more. I cannot post them here as I don't have the copyright.

 

ArthurK

Edited by ArthurK

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Thanks Arthur, PM sent.

 

On closer examination of the photographs there are difference between Broomielaw Box and Middleton, not least in the roof (probably altered for the far more exposed location of Broomielaw?) But there does exist another box which is similar (but smaller) at "Cat Castle" which was the box at one end of Deepdale Viaduct. The only photographs online are protected from copying but hopefully this link will work

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thegrizz/2991423725/lightbox/

 

Looks like a couple of site visits are in order!

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There are a lot of drawings of structures etc. (including signal boxes) in Pearce's book. I am not sure of the title but iwas something like The Stockon & Darlington Railway or the Stainmore Railway. It is a companion book to his "Locomotives of the Stockton & Darlington Railway"

 

ArthurK

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Last weekend I found time to visit the rather sad remains of Lartington West Signal Box. It was built to the exact same pattern as the Middleton Box but smaller, most notably less tall and with a single ground floor window to the front elevation. A most pleasant walk was had along the route of the old Stainmore line to the site of the box at Cat Castle adjacent to the remains of the old quarry workings (which the box would have controlled). The box stands forlorn and neglected beside the path/road that is now the access to Cat Castle Cottages (available as holiday lets I was assured - lovely spot!)

 

gallery_6994_1973_340457.jpg

 

Some detail shots were taken

 

gallery_6994_1973_117019.jpg

 

And some notes to hopefully give me enough detail to produce a scale drawing as I feel that the building will not stand much longer (the roof looks close to collapse) unless it is rescued, perhaps some enterprising soul might make an unusual holiday bedsit?

 

gallery_6994_1973_88679.jpg

 

From a quick examination of the market it would appear that there is no commercial representation of "English Garden Wall Bond" brickwork. So, to paraphrase Clint, you have to ask yourself one question "does it bother you... well does it PUNK?"

 

More to follow!

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The NER used Garden Bond extensively on many structures. Lookds like the S&D area did the same.

 

ArthutK

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Guest Natalie Graham

 

From a quick examination of the market it would appear that there is no commercial representation of "English Garden Wall Bond" brickwork.

 

Handlaid individual bricks it is then. ;)

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From a quick examination of the market it would appear that there is no commercial representation of "English Garden Wall Bond" brickwork. So, to paraphrase Clint, you have to ask yourself one question "does it bother you... well does it PUNK?"

 

More to follow!

That's not "English Garden Wall" bond, I believe it's "Wessex" bond (3 rows of stretches between each row of headers), but see Scalescenes TX52 for a match.

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That's not "English Garden Wall" bond, I believe it's "Wessex" bond (3 rows of stretches between each row of headers), but see Scalescenes TX52 for a match.

Sorry, Stu, that really is English Garden Wall as seen in your Scalescenes link. See also http://www.geograph.org.uk/article/Brick-bonds. If you read your Wikipedia reference carefully, you'll find they say that Wessex is a variation of Flemish with three stretchers between each header (in every row). However, it's not clear from that definition how it might differ from the comparativly rare Flemish Garden Wall.

 

Nick

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Nick, You are correct - my mistake.

 

However, English bond is defined as having "two alternating courses of stretchers and headers". Wikipedia also states "By one definition, Common, American, or Scottish bond has one row of headers to five of stretchers.8] The number of stretcher courses may vary from that, in practice." (My italics).

 

So, I would say it is not English bond (despite John Wiffen's naming of the printed sheet), but it would be Common, American or Scottish.

 

In any case, the Scalesenes sheet is a match for the brick work in the photo, which is probably the main thing.

 

Stu

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Guest Natalie Graham

English Bond and English Garden Wall Bond are two different bonds. The signal box is English Garden Wall Bond, three rows of stretchers then one row of headers.

Edited by Natalie Graham

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Thanks for the heads up on the Scalescenes product. I'm not a big fan of printed card as a building material, I like to add my own painted finish rather than a printed one. I did experiment with printing a copy of the actual brickwork. You need to make careful use of a Photoshop type product to remove any parallax errors, pincushioning or barrel distortion. I'm not struck on the result. You get a printed shadow effect which can only look right from one angle.

 

I will probably build out of plasticard. I would prefer a Wills type moulded product but I'm toying with applying the bricks individually or scribing (at this distance it doesn't look a huge building...)

 

Perhaps it would be possible to gethold of a product that would give me the three rows of stretchers and scribe the headers...

 

Just thinking at the moment though.

 

Thanks for the interest.

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Guest Natalie Graham

How about something with plain stretcher bond and scribe the bricks on every fourth row into thirds?

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How about something with plain stretcher bond and scribe the bricks on every fourth row into thirds?

Halves, not thirds, a header is half the length of a stretcher. Unfortunately, I don't think it would work. In English Garden wall, a header is centred under the stretcher joints so, effectively, there's a quarter stretcher offset in the header row compared with the equivalent row in stretcher bond.

 

Nick

Edited by buffalo

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I've added some further detail shots into the gallery http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/1973-teesdale-buildings/

 

But just to continue the discussion on brickwork, here is a detail shot of "English Garden Wall Bond"

 

gallery_6994_1973_263091.jpg

 

Note the alignment of the headers to the stretcher courses that border them. Also in the top right corner there are two "short stretchers", I can only guess this is using up bricks that have been cut down at corners? The odd piece of metal is the remains of a broken bracket that would have held the walkway up outside the windows. Note also the colour variation in the bricks! Just paint it brick colour eh?

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I've just been looking at the shots in your gallery and have noticed a further interesting feature of the brick bonds. In the gable walls above the windows the bond changes to Scottish bond.

 

The short stretchers are usually because the overall length of the wall is not an exact multiple of the stretcher length. Sometimes you can get away with an odd header, other times you need a quarter or three-quarter brick to get the right length. Some bricklayers prefer to put these odd-length bricks towards the ends of the wall, others will put them in the centre. Either way, the aim is to maintain the symmetry and optimise the gap alignments.

 

Nick

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In the gable walls above the windows the bond changes to Scottish bond.

 

Does it! I hadn't noticed that!

 

I had noticed the ventilation brick, which looks like it might have been a later addition, possibly they were having trouble with condensation inside the boxes? The 3/4 stretcher is a wonderful detail and sort of gives you a link to the original bricklayer who took the time to use it in an appropriate place to optimise the gap alignment.

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Halves, not thirds, a header is half the length of a stretcher. Unfortunately, I don't think it would work. In English Garden wall, a header is centred under the stretcher joints so, effectively, there's a quarter stretcher offset in the header row compared with the equivalent row in stretcher bond.

Nick

If my memory is working properly to set the header course in English Garden Wall bond the 'proper' way is to use a Queen Closer immediately inside the header (which is a return brick in most cases) at the end and this then puts the header joints out of line with the stretchers.

 

Cutting Queen Closers in the days before angle grinders must have been either a very skilled or a very lucky task - if it saw done properly and a it ran over a full brick length, it's even worse trying to do it with Blue Staffords :blush: (so much so that I gave up and stuck to plain bond).

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If my memory is working properly to set the header course in English Garden Wall bond the 'proper' way is to use a Queen Closer immediately inside the header (which is a return brick in most cases) at the end and this then puts the header joints out of line with the stretchers.....

Yes, that's right. As well as in any bond with header courses, they are also needed to get the alignment right in Flemish bond. In fact, you can see them at the ends of the header courses in the photo of the stairs end of the box in Rumblestripes gallery.

 

Nick

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Well, apart from the wonderfully atmospheric photos of 'Stainmore' line signalboxes that are beginning to emerge, I've learned more about brickwork in the last 5 minutes reading this thread than in the last 5 years!!

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Last weekend I found time to visit the rather sad remains of Lartington West Signal Box. It was built to the exact same pattern as the Middleton Box but smaller, most notably less tall and with a single ground floor window to the front elevation. A most pleasant walk was had along the route of the old Stainmore line to the site of the box at Cat Castle adjacent to the remains of the old quarry workings (which the box would have controlled). The box stands forlorn and neglected beside the path/road that is now the access to Cat Castle Cottages (available as holiday lets I was assured - lovely spot!)

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/gallery/album_1973/gallery_6994_1973_340457.jpg

 

Some detail shots were taken

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/gallery/album_1973/gallery_6994_1973_117019.jpg

 

And some notes to hopefully give me enough detail to produce a scale drawing as I feel that the building will not stand much longer (the roof looks close to collapse) unless it is rescued, perhaps some enterprising soul might make an unusual holiday bedsit?

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/gallery/album_1973/gallery_6994_1973_88679.jpg

 

From a quick examination of the market it would appear that there is no commercial representation of "English Garden Wall Bond" brickwork. So, to paraphrase Clint, you have to ask yourself one question "does it bother you... well does it PUNK?"

 

More to follow!

 

Now that is the sort of technical drawing I understand. Just hope you remember not to scale from the plan.

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Just an update, for anyone wondering what I have been doing. The photographs and measurements I took of the box at Lartington West are now being converted into a drawing. This activity has convinced me that there are serious problems with the drawing of Middleton-In-Teesdale box as it is produced in the Ken Hoole book. Not least of which is the windows which are far too small. From the measurements of the frames that remain and the photographs of the box, it would appear that the window panes would have been 18x12 inches. Anyway, I decided to produce an accurate drawing of the box at Lartington West using a CAD package. So being of Scots ancestry with more than a trace of Yorkshireman, I wanted a Free CAD package. So I picked Libre CAD as I can use it both on Linux and Windows... The thing I then found was that there is no user guide! Oh well, I have used CAD before, how hard can it be?

 

So watch this space. Coming soon a definitive (hopefully) accurate drawing of a Central Division NER signal box!

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OK, just an update.

 

I have been making some progress on the drawing. Here is one end elevation of the box at Lartington West

 

gallery_6994_1973_10206.jpg

 

I have also been experimenting with reproducing English Garden Wall bond in 4mm without laying individual bricks! I purchased some nice fine stretcher bond vac formed plastic from Squires when they were at Shildon and this has formed the basis of my method.

 

I cut a four layer strip and using a "knife edge" file created a strip of headers thusly:

 

gallery_6994_1973_728576.jpg

 

I then cut single rows of headers and three rows of stretchers and stuck them to a scrap of 60 thou plasticard

 

gallery_6994_1973_544286.jpg

 

The whole was painted over with a buff colour, allowed to dry then dry-brushed with a "brick" colour, then a mucky wash of thin black was applied to give the result above. I'm quite pleased with the result, the black wash is a bit thick in places but this is just a test piece and I think the mortar is too yellow. But it should prove a relatively easy and effective way of depicting EGWB in 4mm

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I'm told that South Eastern Finecast now produce sheets of garden wall bond brickwork. There was a letter in the last issue of MRJ about it. However, I can't find a mention of it on their website.

 

Your method looks pretty darn good though. Looking forward to more progress.

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