ECML Fish Workings

[stevex59]

As a collector of wagon builders plates, of which I have had many hundreds, the Blue spot fish van was always discussed.

Usually a coach or parcels coach just had a lot No plate with date and builder, however a wagon had a "D" plate that also had the wagon number.

Most BR build wagons had a standard design "D" plate, but why did Blue Spots which were Parcels Stock / Coaching have a "D" wagon plate ?

Well when the wagon carried a load it ran at Passenger / Fast Parcels speed but on its empty journey it ran as a goods or slower speed.

The same applied to some Milk Tanks and a few LMS Parcels trucks not to mention the BR built Fruit Vans in the W92000 series.

Strangely BR built Horse Boxes only had coach builders plates, all be it to the then BR design.. a small oval plate. 

 

A few BR built carflats had both a "D" plate and a Coach plate fitted which maybe came from them being old coaching stock with the body removed

Although the BR built TCV car carriers only had coach plates fitted.

 

Should any one be interested I will load some photos

[ForestPines]

The stolen fish in the court case that I pointed to originated at Grimsby, on the GC, but my knowledge of goods traffic north of London is pretty feeble, so I can't guess where the GC/GN handover would have been, but the GC would probably have tried to get as much mileage out of the traffic as it could.

Although the GC owned Grimsby Docks the GN did have a line into Grimsby which would have been by far the fastest route to take, and the two companies were on good terms then, so I suspect the traffic would have been handed over at Grimsby GN Goods, or possibly run by the GN all the way from East Marsh yard. After grouping the LNER massively expanded the Fish Docks and built a new marshalling yard for outbound fish traffic at New Clee, but that was nothing but muddy foreshore in 1902.

[Fat Controller]

As a collector of wagon builders plates, of which I have had many hundreds, the Blue spot fish van was always discussed.

Usually a coach or parcels coach just had a lot No plate with date and builder, however a wagon had a "D" plate that also had the wagon number.

Most BR build wagons had a standard design "D" plate, but why did Blue Spots which were Parcels Stock / Coaching have a "D" wagon plate ?

Well when the wagon carried a load it ran at Passenger / Fast Parcels speed but on its empty journey it ran as a goods or slower speed.

The same applied to some Milk Tanks and a few LMS Parcels trucks not to mention the BR built Fruit Vans in the W92000 series.

Strangely BR built Horse Boxes only had coach builders plates, all be it to the then BR design.. a small oval plate. 

 

A few BR built carflats had both a "D" plate and a Coach plate fitted which maybe came from them being old coaching stock with the body removed

Although the BR built TCV car carriers only had coach plates fitted.

 

Should any one be interested I will load some photos

Some vehicles were fitted with a small lever on a box attached to the solebar; the box was sometimes labelled 'Passenger' and 'Goods', and sometimes 'Loaded' and 'Empty' and it controlled the speed/strength of the brake application. On Ferry vehicle, it would be lettered M/V (Marchandises/ Voyageurs). Here is a BR-built ferry Open with what appear to be three separate levers; perhaps someone might be able to say what each one does? My guess would be that one switches from air to vacuum brakes, but what about the other two? http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/wagondetailspoetc/h26916e85#h26916e85

In later years, the 'Self-Adjusting Brake' was introduced, which worked off a lever attached to one end of one of the wagon springs, obviating the need for a 'Loaded/ Empty lever.

[Nearholmer]

I can't read those plates, but I do remember that when I was a trainee, and spent a brief period with the brakes gang, we would sometimes struggle to translate labelling from multiple languages - I was sort of OK in French and German, but hadn't learned may technical terms at that stage, and on one occasion the wagon had a great, lengthy dissertation stencilled onto it, and we had to get it translated by the wife of one of the guys, who happened to be German.

[Northroader]

Some vehicles were fitted with a small lever on a box attached to the solebar; the box was sometimes labelled 'Passenger' and 'Goods', and sometimes 'Loaded' and 'Empty' and it controlled the speed/strength of the brake application. On Ferry vehicle, it would be lettered M/V (Marchandises/ Voyageurs). Here is a BR-built ferry Open with what appear to be three separate levers; perhaps someone might be able to say what each one does? My guess would be that one switches from air to vacuum brakes, but what about the other two? http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/wagondetailspoetc/h26916e85#h26916e85

In later years, the 'Self-Adjusting Brake' was introduced, which worked off a lever attached to one end of one of the wagon springs, obviating the need for a 'Loaded/ Empty lever.

On the example shewn, the lever on the right hand side in the vee hanger is the changeover, which selected whether the air brake system (continental) or the British vacuum brake was in use. Incidentally the air brake was the single pipe type at this time. For the other two levers in the middle, the top is the passenger / goods selector, the lower is the empty /loaded. The first controlled the speed of leakage into the brake cylinder through a choke, a slower rate in goods setting because of the slack in the couplings; the second limited the amount of pressure applied to an empty vehicle with less load on the wheels. The other two useful items are the dangly bits on either side. Left hand the wire toilet flush is the air brake release, right hand side the piece of string is the vac release. When a vehicle is stabled with the power brake left on, if you want to move the wagon without a loco, you pull one or the other of these to free the pressure behind the relevant brake cylinder. For homework tonight, I'd like you the read the relevant directive: (although I should say this the modern specification, the wagon were looking at is about fifty years ago, so things have moved on)http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32006D0861#document1

[jwealleans]

I was on a train to London earlier in the week and picked up the latest edition of Moving the Goods from WHS.  In the 'meat' section there's an illustration of the first Gresley O1 hauling a down train.  The caption highlights the leading vehicles as meat vans, but behind them there's a cut of up to a dozen fish vans, easily identifiable.  I'd say that was an example of how empties went back north, in dribs and drabs on booked workings with specials thrown in if there were enough vehicles to justify it.

[TrevorP1]

I've just got hold of a copy of the June 2001 'Backtrack' which contains a 7 page article on Grimsby and it's fish traffic. Very interesting in it's own right and especially so for me who doesn't know a great deal! The article confirms that the fish trains ran to Kings Cross East Goods, also that traffic for the south was marshalled into cross London goods trains which ran via the widened lines.